Is Barry Bonds' Trial The Hold Up?

[stephens]

Except it has been shown over and over again, doping tests do not catch very many dopers.

I wonder how many more they'd catch if they took the millions of dollars being wasted by Novitsky and spent it on improving testing?

 

[skippythepinhead]

SI Report

Interesting take. I don't know how a guilty verdict emboldens anyone. Then again I don't think my tax dollars were wasted. Stupid me for not agreeing with all of the righteously indignant masses I guess.

 

[Oldman]

Interesting take. I don't know how a guilty verdict emboldens anyone. Then again I don't think my tax dollars were wasted. Stupid me for not agreeing with all of the righteously indignant masses I guess.

If Bonds is guilty of obstructing justice he's in for the Tammy "house arrest" sentence and the attending shame and unfashionable ankle bracelit it brings. Fair enough since he was feebly posing as an unwitting user of injected Flaxseed oil. That simply means he is rich, stupid and his home run records came with an enhancement asterix whether he and his fans chose to believe it. He may as well stay at home based on how he treated his friends and lovers.
As for Lance, he and his handlers built a franchise, then an empire, then a heart rending charity on alleged PED usage. Unfortunately they also may have went the step further and facilitated the procurement, transport and finance of the PEDs across state and international borders. Add a little charitable fund washing and the IRS has an interest.
Compound those possiblitlies and Bonds and Clemens look like what they are: lying, arrogant, greedy athletes caught breaking the rules. Lance doesn't even know what his folks convinced him he could get away with and won't be there to defend him.

 

[scribe]

Except it has been shown over and over again, doping tests do not catch very many dopers.

No doubt, this exercise puts pressure on those who think they can get away with cheating. But when the trial comes up empty handed, except for those who are granted immunity, it is sort of embarrassing.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Except it has been shown over and over again, doping tests do not catch very many dopers.

Well, one has to remember one of the special things about the Clean and the Clear were that they could not be detected by any test, none. Period. So they could have tested Bonds every time he took a leak, or bled, and they still wouldn't have caught him.

Interesting take. I don't know how a guilty verdict emboldens anyone. Then again I don't think my tax dollars were wasted. Stupid me for not agreeing with all of the righteously indignant masses I guess.

Legal analysts on ESPN and elsewhere were saying it's not a waste of tax dollars really, at all, and this is how justice works. That it's no more of a "waste" than going after many traffic violations for example, and in the right light, just about any investigation and trial will be considered a waste of tax dollars to some people.

In cycling's case, I imagine most people who feel this was a waste either feel that the obstruction charge isn't of value (legal experts say it is) because it doesn't legally prove he doped. Or they are saying it's a waste of tax dollars because they don't want Armstrong investigated any more.

It was also noted that the feds inability to get Greg Anderson to talk hurt their case. Otherwise they'd very likely get a full conviction on all counts.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Always thought The Onion had the best take on Bonds.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I wonder how many more they'd catch if they took the millions of dollars being wasted by Novitsky and spent it on improving testing?

Not as many as if they took those with a vested interest in certain top riders being seen as clean out of the dope testing business.

 

[Granville57]

Always thought The Onion had the best take on Bonds.

LMAO!

"...said air-conditioner repairman Mike Damus."

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

I wonder how many more they'd catch if they took the millions of dollars being wasted by Novitsky and spent it on improving testing?

Pursuing Mafia drug distribution cartels (where most PEDs originate from) is hardly a "waste" of public funds. The most likely reason Anderson didn't talk was in deference to his supplier (the mob), not Bonds.

A link to Dr. Maserati's post where he links to a conference report on PED distribution:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=445771&postcount=6

 

[lean mean &green]

let's blow the "waste of taxpayer money" argument out of the water one final time.

the decision to indict AND convict barry bonds provides disencentive to other's in a similar position to the one he found himself in approx 8 years ago. that message has been sent since bond's legal troubles first began and will continue to be sent into the future. IOW, they will be forced to answer questions truthfully and if they decide not to the only hope of escaping punishment is to rely on greg anderson types. not a good gamble if you ask me. 10 million now may help to avoid 100 million spent in numerous other cases over time.

arguing that money was wasted by federal investigators and prosecutors pretty much makes you an imbecile. if money is wasted it is wasted by the person who lies to the grand jury. if you're upset by the 10 million price tag, you can send the bill to the accountable party, his initials are BB.

 

[flicker]

let's blow the "waste of taxpayer money" argument out of the water one final time.

the decision to indict AND convict barry bonds provides disencentive to other's in a similar position to the one he found himself in approx 8 years ago. that message has been sent since bond's legal troubles first began and will continue to be sent into the future. IOW, they will be forced to answer questions truthfully and if they decide not to the only hope of escaping punishment is to rely on greg anderson types. not a good gamble if you ask me. 10 million now may help to avoid 100 million spent in numerous other cases over time.

arguing that money was wasted by federal investigators and prosecutors pretty much makes you an imbecile. if money is wasted it is wasted by the person who lies to the grand jury. if you're upset by the 10 million price tag, you can send the bill to the accountable party, his initials are BB.

Barry was immoral, he had a long term affair through two marriages. Sorry he used PEDs most athletes do, in Pro Baseball.
As far as a waste of money I think it was. Please, do not let me stop you from being a moral police or you paying to see Novitzkys' and the federal prosecuters charade. Wikipedia PED use in Major League Baseball, and you will catch my drift.

 

[stephens]

if you're upset by the 10 million price tag, you can send the bill to the accountable party, his initials are BB.

That's ridiculous. The individual, in a free society, should never be under any obligation to assist the prosecution in prosecuting him. There are certain questions that should never be asked and/or if asked, one shouldn't expect an honest answer. This includes who we sleep with and what we put into our own bodies. So perjury and obstruction charges are indeed a waste of money and sign of a sick society that ought to mind its own business.

I mean, seriously, what does this boil down to? We think you did something "wrong" but we don't have enough actual proof of a scientific nature so we're going to ask you some question and then punish you if you are slightly evasive in answering those questions (obstruction charge)? What a crock of **** that is.

Yes, athletes agree to play by a certain set of rules and yes they agree to have their privacy invaded (though bonds didn't since there was no policy in baseball) by testing and whereabouts rules and so on. But we absolutely should not extend to them the obligation to give full confessions of their behavior or assist the authorities in any other way that leads to their own prosecution.

Either we can scientifically prove they have cheated, or we can't. End of story for me.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That's ridiculous. The individual, in a free society, should never be under any obligation to assist the prosecution in prosecuting him. There are certain questions that should never be asked and/or if asked, one shouldn't expect an honest answer. This includes who we sleep with and what we put into our own bodies. So perjury and obstruction charges are indeed a waste of money and sign of a sick society that ought to mind its own business.

I mean, seriously, what does this boil down to? We think you did something "wrong" but we don't have enough actual proof of a scientific nature so we're going to ask you some question and then punish you if you are slightly evasive in answering those questions (obstruction charge)? What a crock of **** that is.

Yes, athletes agree to play by a certain set of rules and yes they agree to have their privacy invaded (though bonds didn't since there was no policy in baseball) by testing and whereabouts rules and so on. But we absolutely should not extend to them the obligation to give full confessions of their behavior or assist the authorities in any other way that leads to their own prosecution.

Either we can scientifically prove they have cheated, or we can't. End of story for me.

Wasn't Bonds using PEDs that did not show up in tests?

 

[skippythepinhead]

Stephens, I just want you to know I think it's ok to be ignorant of both the law and the case at hand as your post so amply demonstrates.

 

[flicker]

Wasn't Bonds using PEDs that did not show up in tests?

Let me explain something here. Novitzky and co took computers and urine tests without warrants, thusly Victor Contes accusations against Novitzky. Ill gotten gains by Novitzky, similar to the planting of glove by the racist, Mark Fuhrman on Nicole or OJs property.

 

[stephens]

Stephens, I just want you to know I think it's ok to be ignorant of both the law and the case at hand as your post so amply demonstrates.

If you have something to add or an opinion about the case, please state it. But keep your opinions about the other members to yourself.

FWIW, my post was not about "the law" as it currently stands. It was just an opinion about how I feel things should be in a free society and what we should and shouldn't do to each other.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

LMAO!

"...said air-conditioner repairman Mike Damus."

That was really funny. Also on an aside. If I would have posted the Onion article it would have been labeld a TROLL,,,,, IGNORANT ,,,, Lacks CREDIBILITY,, FLAME or a DEFENDANT in some imaginary criminal case???????????. WoW.

 

[D-Queued]

Warning: Baiting and thread diversion ahead

Let me explain something here. Novitzky and co took computers and urine tests without warrants, thusly Victor Contes accusations against Novitzky. Ill gotten gains by Novitzky, similar to the planting of glove by the racist, Mark Fuhrman on Nicole or OJs property.

Dave.

 

[Granville57]

let's blow the "waste of taxpayer money" argument out of the water one final time...

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Yes, our legal system incurs massive financial burdens, on all levels. If one feels the need to protest that, then by all means, take whatever steps one deems necessary to remedy the situation.

However, insisting that justice shouldn't be pursued, due to the nature of the system itself, is missing the point entirely. What a great message to send the rich and famous! Obfuscate the truth by all means possible (and the rich and famous DO have more means than the rest of us) and then just sit back and enjoy the fact that paying the price for any wrongdoing will simply be considered too expensive an endeavor by the citizens of this great land of ours. Fantastic!

If the "cost" of these proceedings is so offensive to some, then the blame should be placed squarely in the lap of those—like Bonds, Clemens & Pharmstrong—whose actions are making it so. Jason Giambi 'fessed up. Saved us all a lot of money. Those other guys? Well...

Now, if you want to argue the presumption of innocence, that's just dandy. But the presumption of innocence should never be confused with the suspicion of such. Every case ever tried, where the defendant was, well, defending themselves, began with the suspicion of guilt. Otherwise, we would hardly have a legal system at all.

So those suspicions, when within reason, MUST be pursued. And the whole reason for having Grand Juries is to determine the validity of those pursuits and whether or not they should be...pursued.

Get it?

 

[stephens]

That's all fine and dandy if resources are unlimited. "Waste of money," is just shorthand for "there are more important things our society could be doing with its money and the time of the people involved and because they chose to spend massive amounts of money on cases like this one, a lot of other more worthy causes will not be funded."

 

[MarkvW]

That's ridiculous. The individual, in a free society, should never be under any obligation to assist the prosecution in prosecuting him. There are certain questions that should never be asked and/or if asked, one shouldn't expect an honest answer. This includes who we sleep with and what we put into our own bodies. So perjury and obstruction charges are indeed a waste of money and sign of a sick society that ought to mind its own business.

I mean, seriously, what does this boil down to? We think you did something "wrong" but we don't have enough actual proof of a scientific nature so we're going to ask you some question and then punish you if you are slightly evasive in answering those questions (obstruction charge)? What a crock of **** that is.

Yes, athletes agree to play by a certain set of rules and yes they agree to have their privacy invaded (though bonds didn't since there was no policy in baseball) by testing and whereabouts rules and so on. But we absolutely should not extend to them the obligation to give full confessions of their behavior or assist the authorities in any other way that leads to their own prosecution.

Either we can scientifically prove they have cheated, or we can't. End of story for me.

Slightly evasive! That's nuts!! Greg Anderson stuck a NEEDLE in his BELLY! That's a big fat lie!

 

[Granville57]

"there are more important things our society could be doing with its money and the time of the people involved...

But where do we draw the line? Because there are almost always more important things that we, as a society, could spend our time, money and energy on than the things we do.

I'm sure we could both come up with endless lists of such things. But should we start by ignoring the wrongdoings of elite althetes?

 

[lean mean &green]

should we start by ignoring the wrongdoings of elite althetes?

the answer is obviously yes if it requires you to adjust your world view or if it furthers your agenda

 

[stephens]

At the end of the day, sports is just a game. When we've solved all of the world's real problems, then maybe I won't mind as much if the u.s. government sticks their noses into pro sports.

Until then, violations of sporting regulations should be handled by the governing bodies of those sports and leave the governments to handle the world's real problems. For governments to stick their noses into pro sports cheating, and then get the athletes to commit real crimes (perjury, obstruction of justice, etc.) is a waste of time and resources.

 

[Race Radio]

At the end of the day, sports is just a game. When we've solved all of the world's real problems, then maybe I won't mind as much if the u.s. government sticks their noses into pro sports.

The Bonds case was about perjury and obstruction of justice. It was also about rich people thinking that they could escape justice if their friends don't testify and they wage media campaigns about witch hunts