Is Norway Doping?

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Kristian said:
It is very very unlikely that they dope. Their careers would be absolutely destroyed if they where caught. The consequences would be far more severe than what they would gain.
How did that theory work for Heras, Landis, Vino, Ricco, Hamilton, Virenque, Rasmussen, Nozal, Schumacer, Kohl, Rebellin, Mayo, Kasheshkin, Piepolie, Rumsas, Frigo, VDB, Museeuw, Astarloa, Astarloza, etc. etc. etc.
 
Aug 20, 2009
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Roninho said:
How did that theory work for Heras, Landis, Vino, Ricco, Hamilton, Virenque, Rasmussen, Nozal, Schumacer, Kohl, Rebellin, Mayo, Kasheshkin, Piepolie, Rumsas, Frigo, VDB, Museeuw, Astarloa, Astarloza, etc. etc. etc.
That statement does not prove anything. The question in the original post is if Norway dope not if a bunch of random cyclists dope.

In the context of Norwegian cycling doping is highly unlikely. The culture in Norwegian sports, media and public is STRONGLY against doping. If they get caught the would be dead as athletes, marketing wise and I also think an event like TDF would be impossible to sell to tv-channels here.

I know there are a lot of doping cynics on this forums. But with regards to EBH and Thor all facts points to the fact that they are clean. There is even no circumstantial evidence to point to doping.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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Man, EBH really can't catch a break on this forum--although he sure can catch one in the Tour.

When EBH is injured or not winning everything in sight, he's the most 'overhyped' rider in the sport.

When EBH starts realizing his potential, it's proof that his entire country is engaged in systematic doping.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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A few norwegians here talking about public humiliation if an athlete us caught juiced up. Could be right but not sure. Eddie is def not doping. The guy got a zero on the -secret- list. Hushovd got a 2. The only thing fishy about Hushovd is his love for Armstrong(a longside the rest of blind cyclists from norway) and him riding in a really dirty omerta era. But they are clean. EOD.
 
Aug 20, 2009
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luckyboy said:
lol, that could apply to any cyclist.
Well I didn't explain it well then. In EBH and Thors cases it would be different. If you understood the culture in Norway regarding doping you would see what I meant by it.

I can give you an example. Pantani, a known doper and a hero in Italy. If he was a Norwegian he would be the biggest villain in sports,public and media. The same applies to other dopers who get caught and come back.
One of the reasons for this is that Norway is a frontrunner in anti-doping work, and those ethics is very much applied in Norwegian sports. This has taken years and years of work and is now in the culture.

Believe what you want, but all facts point in the direction that both Thor and Edvald is riding clean.
 
Has the OP been to Norway?

They'd need to be on Premiership football salaries to afford doping products! (Joking, I was in Norway recently and absolutely fell in love with the place - but I sure had to watch my expenditure)

Nah, they're just 2 great riders.

Are they doping? Maybe, maybe not. I've seen no evidence to suggest that they are. But even if they are, accusing the whole country is something a bit ludicrous, not only given that it's an absurd generalisation, but in that there are so few successful Norwegian pros.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Kristian said:
Well I didn't explain it well then. In EBH and Thors cases it would be different. If you understood the culture in Norway regarding doping you would see what I meant by it.

I can give you an example. Pantani, a known doper and a hero in Italy. If he was a Norwegian he would be the biggest villain in sports,public and media. The same applies to other dopers who get caught and come back.
One of the reasons for this is that Norway is a frontrunner in anti-doping work, and those ethics is very much applied in Norwegian sports. This has taken years and years of work and is now in the culture.

Believe what you want, but all facts point in the direction that both Thor and Edvald is riding clean.
facts such as....?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Lanark said:
Are you from Norway by any chance?

I highly doubt that their careers would be destroyed if they would be caught.
I beg to differ, certainly in their home country. Norwegians are crazy mad about both of them and they are heroes, but all the norwegians ive ever spoken to also have an incredibly strong sense of fair play and morals. Not sure they would be forgiven by the norwegian public. Norway have a very different mentallity towards fairness than a lot in fact most other countries. Cheating is not tollerated.

as for the rest, Boasson Hagen won after a descent and a lumpy sprint stage that cav wasnt involved in. Hushovd's wins both came on the end of the descents, so of the four Norwegian wins, three came at the end of descents.

That just says to me that the Norwegians go downhill quicker than everyone else. All that skii'ing has paid off.
 
May 26, 2009
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Most probably yes. And don't get me started on the Norwegian skiers...

Their performances in this Tour aren't anything super special - special, but not something that would cry out doping.
 
TeamSkyFans said:
That just says to me that the Norwegians go downhill quicker than everyone else. All that skii'ing has paid off.
Except, at course, that Nordic skiing and Alpine skiing are very different disciplines, of course, with Alpine being predicated almost entirely on going downhill, and Nordic being more varied.
 
May 26, 2009
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Kristian said:
Well I didn't explain it well then. In EBH and Thors cases it would be different. If you understood the culture in Norway regarding doping you would see what I meant by it.

I can give you an example. Pantani, a known doper and a hero in Italy. If he was a Norwegian he would be the biggest villain in sports,public and media. The same applies to other dopers who get caught and come back.
One of the reasons for this is that Norway is a frontrunner in anti-doping work, and those ethics is very much applied in Norwegian sports. This has taken years and years of work and is now in the culture.

Believe what you want, but all facts point in the direction that both Thor and Edvald is riding clean.
Yes, the norwegian athletes have certainly profited very handsomely from having inside access to the latest anti-doping information :)

The only cultural thing the norwegian athletes may have is a doping culture...
 
Aug 1, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Except, at course, that Nordic skiing and Alpine skiing are very different disciplines, of course, with Alpine being predicated almost entirely on going downhill, and Nordic being more varied.
Most Norwegians grow up with skis on their feet. Both both cross country and downhill skiing is very big in Norway.

Cross country skiing is perhaps the only sport more cardio demanding than cycling. Some years ago there was a big scandal about EPO use among pro cross country skiers, don't remember the details.
 
HL2037 said:
Most Norwegians grow up with skis on their feet. Both both cross country and downhill skiing is very big in Norway.

Cross country skiing is perhaps the only sport more cardio demanding than cycling. Some years ago there was a big scandal about EPO use among pro cross country skiers, don't remember the details.
There's a long and detailed thread about EPO use among the XC/NC/biathlon guys (but mostly XC) in this forum which covers a lot of the bases.
 
May 12, 2010
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TeamSkyFans said:
I beg to differ, certainly in their home country. Norwegians are crazy mad about both of them and they are heroes, but all the norwegians ive ever spoken to also have an incredibly strong sense of fair play and morals. Not sure they would be forgiven by the norwegian public. Norway have a very different mentallity towards fairness than a lot in fact most other countries. Cheating is not tollerated.
Not a single reason why their careers would be destroyed. They don't ride for a Norwegian team, they ride for international teams. They aren't hired because their teams want to penetrate the Norwegian market, it's far too small for that, they would be hired for their international appeal. The Norwegian's may be all paragons of virtue, but that has no effect on the hirability of EBH and Thor after a possible doping ban.

The fact that nobody likes or trusts Klöden in Germany hasn't hurt his career has it?
 
Lanark said:
Not a single reason why their careers would be destroyed. They don't ride for a Norwegian team, they ride for international teams. They aren't hired because their teams want to penetrate the Norwegian market, it's far too small for that, they would be hired for their international appeal. The Norwegian's may be all paragons of virtue, but that has no effect on the hirability of EBH and Thor after a possible doping ban.

The fact that nobody likes or trusts Klöden in Germany hasn't hurt his career has it?
Klodi hasn't won the Tour of Germany recently. Does that count?

Dave.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Except, at course, that Nordic skiing and Alpine skiing are very different disciplines, of course, with Alpine being predicated almost entirely on going downhill, and Nordic being more varied.
Yeah, but they've probably learnt something from it all the same. Bernie Eisel is another XC skier who is an excellent descender.

LeMond and Hamilton were skiers too. LeMond was a great descender. Hamilton - I don't really remember if he was good.
 
Kristian said:
It is very very unlikely that they dope. Their careers would be absolutely destroyed if they where caught. The consequences would be far more severe than what they would gain.
That line of reasoning is bogus. There's been plenty norwegian dopers. That said, I'd (genuinely) like to know if there's any concrete suspicion against hushovd and/or hagen? I have to admit I've wondered myself. Yes, they've been winning from breaks, and relying heavily on descending, but it was no easy job getting in those breaks, and they've both been climbing unexpectedly well.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Silly thread. Look at the pedigree, with Thor as a WC at ITT as U23. EBH as a unique talent from the get go. Both of them accomplished athletes in a multitude of sports, building cardio capabilities by xc-skiing, doing MTB, you name it. Thor was tested pre-Credit Agricole days, and was off-scale at 19. There's just not anything sinister about none of them. Thor helped TenDam on saturday, literally pushing an injured Ten Dam across the line. A WC doing menial tasks to help a competing team, and telling noone about it? Nothing Lance-Poo about that. And, for those that might suspect EBH: Have you actuallyseen his naivety in interviews? Nothing savvy basking-in-the-sun about it. Just a driven, really competitive youngster, suddenly finding himself centerstage, enjoying the fight.
No, this is just envy from the OP.
 
hektoren said:
Silly thread. Look at the pedigree, with Thor as a WC at ITT as U23. EBH as a unique talent from the get go. Both of them accomplished athletes in a multitude of sports, building cardio capabilities by xc-skiing, doing MTB, you name it. Thor was tested pre-Credit Agricole days, and was off-scale at 19. There's just not anything sinister about none of them. Thor helped TenDam on saturday, literally pushing an injured Ten Dam across the line. A WC doing menial tasks to help a competing team, and telling noone about it? Nothing Lance-Poo about that. And, for those that might suspect EBH: Have you actuallyseen his naivety in interviews? Nothing savvy basking-in-the-sun about it. Just a driven, really competitive youngster, suddenly finding himself centerstage, enjoying the fight.
No, this is just envy from the OP.
All of that's true, but it doesn't mean they don't dope. I'm not saying they are, I really hope they're not, but they way someone comes across in interviews etc means nothing. Nice guys dope too.
 

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