Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

[roundabout]

Vermeire's profile fits the description of a young doctor with an impeccable record.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/editions/first-edition-cycling-news-december-21-2007

What i don't remember is how on earth did they manage to get the suspension shortened to 6 months.

L'arriviste?

 

[roundabout]

Also, Gilbert is seemingly on a different level this year even compared to the last by climbing the Mur over 10 seconds faster this time around (and having enough time in hand to ease off the gas in the final 40 meters).

Hell, in the form that he showed today it is very likely that he could have been very competitive in any Fleche finish in recent years.

 

[El Pistolero]

No thread for Purito?

The guy that broke through since last year? At what age? The guy that came second to Gilbert in AGR and FW?

By the way Hitch, you did this a few times already, but Gilbert didn't break through at the age of 28. He's 28 right now!

Though I've got to admit, this performance of FW got me doubted as well. But his team mates had to give Gilbert their encouragement a few times because he was sitting in the back. Gilbert wasn't really motivated because he thought he couldn't win this. But after the second ascend of the Mur he said he felt great, so he told his team to work for him. Why would he dope, for FW, if he thought he couldn't win here?

 

[Escarabajo]

Yes, except that that everybody needs to ride 200.6 km to get there.

+1.

That is actually where the doping takes place, especially when the final kms are as steep and require so much power as this one. Talent is what would make you win in such a steep short climb but doping will get you there fresh.

Now, we have nothing on this guy yet. Maybe we can make some estimates if we get the final 1.4 kms time. But it would be mostly speculation. However it is a fair point by the Hitch the talent in him should have shown much earlier than this. So it is fair to question his performances.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I did like how PG made a point of saying last week that his teammates had been "altitude training". Increasingly an eye-opener in rider interviews I feel - could be the new "tranquillo"

 

[131313]

+1.

That is actually where the doping takes place, especially when the final kms are as steep and require so much power as this one. Talent is what would make you win in such a steep short climb but doping will get you there fresh.

I can tell you first hand that it's certainly possible to put out your maximum 3 to 5 minute power at the end of a hard race, and do it clean. I have no doubt that boosting your fitness through artificial means can help you with a short, intense effort at the end of a race, but being able to do go hard at the end of a race is hardly proof of doping.

Now, we have nothing on this guy yet. Maybe we can make some estimates if we get the final 1.4 kms time. But it would be mostly speculation. However it is a fair point by the Hitch the talent in him should have shown much earlier than this. So it is fair to question his performances.

You're kidding, right? I mean, it's fair to question the performance on anyone who's getting results at this level. Sadly, that's the reality of pro cycling. But to suggest Gilbert hasn't "shown himself earlier"? Are you kidding?? I mean, what is the standard here, and what is the accepted progression?

 

[Digger]

I can tell you first hand that it's certainly possible to put out your maximum 3 to 5 minute power at the end of a hard race, and do it clean. I have no doubt that boosting your fitness through artificial means can help you with a short, intense effort at the end of a race, but being able to do go hard at the end of a race is hardly proof of doping.




You're kidding, right? I mean, it's fair to question the performance on anyone who's getting results at this level. Sadly, that's the reality of pro cycling. But to suggest Gilbert hasn't "shown himself earlier"? Are you kidding?? I mean, what is the standard here, and what is the accepted progression?

The person who said he hadn't shown himself prior to this year is about one step away from going full ***. Imagine having his Palmares prior to this year.

 

[roundabout]

I'll repeat myself once again.

Gilbert climbed the Mur 10 seconds* faster this year than the year before and comparable to the best times from 2 last editions.

*Usual disclaimers apply

 

[Scatto]

Pro
- Kimmage interview
- antidoping statement for Walloon cycling youth: "it is not hard to make time for this"
- fdesjeux
- simplicity / agreeable
- looses sometimes
- steady improvement
- competition may be juicing less

Contra
- He's very good
- I believe once a too high hematocrit in U23
- trains with Vino
- never complained about Valverde robbing many victories
- said about the anti doping initiative (a help line): "it didn't exist when we started"
- still wants to win the Tour (Flandrien award interview)
- wants to win all classics - wants to win everything basically

I'm a believer

 

[hrotha]

I'll repeat myself once again.

Gilbert climbed the Mur 10 seconds* faster this year than the year before and comparable to the best times from 2 last editions.

*Usual disclaimers apply

Someone in another forum said that up to the point where he attacked the time was roughly 8 seconds slower than last year. I'm just repeating it like a parrot, but maybe you guys can do something with that figure.

 

[blackcat]

Pro
- Kimmage interview
- antidoping statement for Walloon cycling youth: "it is not hard to make time for this"
- fdesjeux
- simplicity / agreeable
- looses sometimes
- steady improvement
- competition may be juicing less

Contra
- He's very good
- I believe once a too high hematocrit in U23
- trains with Vino
- never complained about Valverde robbing many victories
- said about the anti doping initiative (a help line): "it didn't exist when we started"
- still wants to win the Tour (Flandrien award interview)
- wants to win all classics - wants to win everything basically

I'm a believer

Monaco is a haven for athletes with the added bonus on top of taxes lack of PED testing rigor.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

gilbert is definetely clean. the guy was basically raised by marc madiot.

 

[Walkman]

Unless the biological passport is extremely effective, I don't why suddenly someone can dominate these races clean when everyone who won them in a less impressive way was doped up.

Are you serious? Doping minimizes the natural differences between the riders and the effect of this will never be more obvious than in races like today where there are some hills but no big mountains.

 

[Lanark]

Pro
- Kimmage interview
- antidoping statement for Walloon cycling youth: "it is not hard to make time for this"
- fdesjeux
- simplicity / agreeable
- looses sometimes
- steady improvement
- competition may be juicing less

Contra
- He's very good
- I believe once a too high hematocrit in U23
- trains with Vino
- never complained about Valverde robbing many victories
- said about the anti doping initiative (a help line): "it didn't exist when we started"
- still wants to win the Tour (Flandrien award interview)
- wants to win all classics - wants to win everything basically

I'm a believer

I haven't heard about this, but there used to be tons of rumours about his u23 team (Go Pass Slagino), and Gilbert specifically, but that was 10 years ago, does anyone remember anything more?

 

[maltiv]

Why would he dope, for FW, if he thought he couldn't win here?

That's some very weird logic right there. Anyway, the effect of an EPO injection lasts for almost a month, no?

 

[ferryman]

Monaco is a haven for athletes with the added bonus on top of taxes lack of PED testing rigor.

Lack of PED testing rigor in Monaco? I didn't know this, can you explain further what you mean?

 

[Mambo95]

There is freedom of speech, but there is also defamation. Without the slightest evidence, I think we are close to the second one here...

That's why a lot of British internet forums have 'outside' volunteer moderators (aka patsys). If they get sued they can pass a lot of the liability on to the moderators under the guise of them just being service providers rather than publishers. While there's yet to be a test case for this, there's no way I'd volunteer to moderate any forum. British libel law, eh - it's utterly screwed.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I'll repeat myself once again.

Gilbert climbed the Mur 10 seconds* faster this year than the year before and comparable to the best times from 2 last editions.

*Usual disclaimers apply

Don't know where you got your numbers, but they are wrong.

I have taken the time (from the youtube clock) from the 2010 & 2011 editions.
I have taken the time from the peloton at 2km & 1 km to go.

2010 Fleche Wallone 2km (05:12) 1.13 to 1km (6:25) 2:46 to finish (9:11) - total last 2km 3:59.
2011 Fleche Wallone 2km (06:09) 1.09 to 1km (7:18) 2:44 to finish (10:02) - total last 2km 3:53.

 

[For The World]

Contra
- He's very good
- I believe once a too high hematocrit in U23
- trains with Vino
- never complained about Valverde robbing many victories
- said about the anti doping initiative (a help line): "it didn't exist when we started"
- still wants to win the Tour (Flandrien award interview)
- wants to win all classics - wants to win everything basically

I'm a believer

So from the points you're listing here - because he's a very good professional cyclist who wants to win everything, trains with someone who was previously caught using PEDs and doesn't complain about someone winning, he is doping?

It's such a shame that because you know someone with a shady past, you can be automatically linked to performing the same actions as they have. Guilty by association is certainly strong with this one.

 

[roundabout]

Gilbert was 11 seconds behind the winner last year.

He improved by at least 10 seconds.

See my original post where this very point is made more clearly.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=495187&postcount=77

 

[luckyboy]

However it is a fair point by the Hitch the talent in him should have shown much earlier than this. So it is fair to question his performances.

This is just idiotic. Did you even look at Wikipedia or CQ before posting this crap?

 

[roundabout]

He was very good before, but became really dominant after October 2009 at 27.

He discovered a talent for Fleche Wallone today.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Gilbert was 11 seconds behind the winner last year.

He improved by at least 10 seconds.

See my original post where this very point is made more clearly.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=495187&postcount=77

You're going off his own time??
Last year he was badly positioned coming on to the Mur but finished strongly.

The times ridden on the Mur are an indication of nothing.

 

[luckyboy]

This year he rode 198km in 4h 54' 57"

Last year it was 201km in 4h 29' 35"

Last year was mega-doped

 

[roundabout]

You're going off his own time??
Last year he was badly positioned coming on to the Mur but finished strongly.

The times ridden on the Mur are an indication of nothing.

You are right, being able to ride as fast as any time done in 2009 and 2010 is an indication of nothing.

And of course you ignored the part about disclaimers applying.

And speaking of badly positioned you should compare Anton in 2011 to 2010. However his 2010 ride wasn't 10 seconds faster.