Is Robert Gesink soft?

[Jonathan]

Anyone can make predictions, we'll just see how Gesink performs. There is no strict logic to arguing that he doesn't have the potential to win; he climbs and recuperates well, and is obviously the biggest Dutch talent for GTs and smaller stage races. I would take care not to dismiss him too easily, because facts are more likely to prove otherwise.

 

[Moondance]

Fact remains he ended up 6th a stunning 1!!! place improvement in position since the year before. And there you go he ALWAYS falls when it matters. The guy will never be a major factor in cycling. He just doesn't have "it"

To say Gesink's improvements from the 08 Vuelta to the 09 Vuelta is only one place is disingenuous at best, and willfully ignorant at worst. In 08 he was always riding behind the favorites in the mountains, getting dropped by Contador, Valverde, Sastre, Leipheimer, Mosquera & Rodriguez (who all finished above him). In 09 he was matching and even beating several of those same guys uphil (although obviously not Contador). Yes, a fall (one he did not cause himself btw) took him out of the position to take a podium spot. It sucks for him.

But to say a guy has no future in a sport like cycling at 23 is absolute BS. Carlos Sastre didn't even turn pro until he was 23, and hadn't got a major victory until he was 25. When Contador turned 24 all he had won were a two stages in the Tour of Romandie, a stage in Basque Country and in Switzerland, with a few GC top tens in races like Paris-Nice and the aforementioned races. Contador hadn't even come close to finishing Top 10 in a GT GC yet even (his best was 31st) when he turned 24. Miguel Indurain's best performances prior to his 25th birthday were wins in the Tour de Avenir, Tour of Catalonia and the Tour of Murcia, and his best GT GC placing was 47th. Evans' biggest win was the GC in the Tour of Austria; and he didn't even ride a GT until he was 25 (14th in the 02 Giro incidentaly).

Life for a cyclist doesn't end at 24, rather it begins. You're welcome not to think highly of Gesink, he does have some rather troubling habits that don't seem to be going away, falling at bad moments, and a seeming stagnation in the development of his TTing skillz. But I think we can clearly see from my evidence above that he isn't the only one who hadn't set the cycling world ablaze yet when he turned 24.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Although history has told us, riders who Ryo Hazuki is most against, usually turn out to be big winners after all.
So this is actually a good sign for Gesink

actually it's not ruben. you favorited riders always end up to suck look at all the websites you host. all those riders are failing miserably now

I predicted in 2002 boogerd would never win anything again as you know.

I predicted rujano to do podium in giro 2005 and actually made 1500 euros with this. I predicted solers king of mountain jersey and stage win in 2007 and made 1000 euros with it. Of course I have also made wrong predictions like wielinga and traksel.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Need I remind you you said that Gilbert would never figure in hilly classics and that Boonen had a 200km limit?

Your words and there are many more examples

 

[Moondance]

Need I remind you you said that Gilbert would never figure in hilly classics and that Boonen had a 200km limit?

Your words and there are many more examples

This clearly goes back a couple years

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yup, 2002, eight years ago, cyanide forums (cycling manager developer)... ahh good old times.

Yeah mr Ryo did many many predictions, you are bound to get a few right, but most of them failed, although he is too much self-loving to ever admit that.

I'll admit right away that I've seen most things wrong (cycling is too hard to predict)

 

[Galic Ho]

Lol. Let me rephrase your sentence. He has always fallen when it mattered UP TO THIS POINT IN HIS CAREER. Do I really need to reiterate that he is only 23 years old? That his career is just starting? That he can only improve from here on? If your problem with him is personal then I guess this argument is worthless. Because right now the only thing I'm reading from you are these audacious predictions based on a string of bad luck in a young super talent's career. Other than that you really have no valid arguments to sustain your ridiculous statements. Where I come from that's defined a HATER. This fact nullifies all of your claims by default.

Tone it down sourpuss. "Ridiculous statements." This from you, who earlier posted that Gesink almost won the Vuelta and had second in the bag! What do you people smoke? Drop the show boating and at least acknowledge he did not have it in the Vuelta. Ryo was correct on that matter. Ttrying to one up him in petty word games whilst claiming Gesink was going to win is nothing more than delusional fanboy drivel. He couldn't match Basso and Basso is a shadow of his former self. Gesink had one fall, so did Samu, but only one lost lots of time. Samu still finished within a minute of Valverde. Maybe Robert is softer than Samu because he did not fight back after he fell. Maybe he isn't, either way it does not change the fact he did not have the form to win or come second.

Gesink was doing superbly but finished where he inevitably would have. Maybe deduct two minutes from his overall deficit without the fall, but he was never going to match the top three, let alone Basso or Mosquera when they pulled into Madrid. You'll be able to see in this years GT's if your high elevation of Gesink is accurate. Maybe when he beats Evans, Valverde and Samu, let alone Basso, then and only then will you have a point. Can't wait, because with Menchov as numero uno GC rider at Rabo, Gesink will be lucky to make the top 10 at the Tour. I won't hold my breath. Good rider, but he does not deserve this kind of unrealistic and hyped up anticipation of major performances from fanboys. Nobody does. How about keeping it real in future and if Gesink does not fall, get sick and in the event he wins something, you then lay down praise. But not beforehand simply because he sticks with a few guys in one race.

 

[Moondance]

Tone it down sourpuss. "Ridiculous statements." This from you, who earlier posted that Gesink almost won the Vuelta and had second in the bag! What do you people smoke? Drop the show boating and at least acknowledge he did not have it in the Vuelta. Ryo was correct on that matter. Ttrying to one up him in petty word games whilst claiming Gesink was going to win is nothing more than delusional fanboy drivel. He couldn't match Basso and Basso is a shadow of his former self. Gesink had one fall, so did Samu, but only one lost lots of time. Samu still finished within a minute of Valverde. Maybe Robert is softer than Samu because he did not fight back after he fell. Maybe he isn't, either way it does not change the fact he did not have the form to win or come second.

Gesink was doing superbly but finished where he inevitably would have. Maybe deduct two minutes from his overall deficit without the fall, but he was never going to match the top three, let alone Basso or Mosquera when they pulled into Madrid. You'll be able to see in this years GT's if your high elevation of Gesink is accurate. Maybe when he beats Evans, Valverde and Samu, let alone Basso, then and only then will you have a point. Can't wait, because with Menchov as numero uno GC rider at Rabo, Gesink will be lucky to make the top 10 at the Tour. I won't hold my breath. Good rider, but he does not deserve this kind of unrealistic and hyped up anticipation of major performances from fanboys. Nobody does. How about keeping it real in future and if Gesink does not fall, get sick and in the event he wins something, you then lay down praise. But not beforehand simply because he sticks with a few guys in one race.

It wasn't just a fall in stage 16 (?).... He got injured... Pretty badly as you see. Try riding a 174km Vuelta stage with 3500m of climbing with that little flesh wound. But he didn't give up, and fought against the pain. Still managed to only lose a minute or so to Valv in the final TT... Decent performance given the circumstances.

 

[theyoungest]

Tone it down sourpuss. "Ridiculous statements." This from you, who earlier posted that Gesink almost won the Vuelta and had second in the bag! What do you people smoke? Drop the show boating and at least acknowledge he did not have it in the Vuelta. Ryo was correct on that matter. Ttrying to one up him in petty word games whilst claiming Gesink was going to win is nothing more than delusional fanboy drivel. He couldn't match Basso and Basso is a shadow of his former self. Gesink had one fall, so did Samu, but only one lost lots of time. Samu still finished within a minute of Valverde. Maybe Robert is softer than Samu because he did not fight back after he fell. Maybe he isn't, either way it does not change the fact he did not have the form to win or come second.

Gesink was doing superbly but finished where he inevitably would have. Maybe deduct two minutes from his overall deficit without the fall, but he was never going to match the top three, let alone Basso or Mosquera when they pulled into Madrid. You'll be able to see in this years GT's if your high elevation of Gesink is accurate. Maybe when he beats Evans, Valverde and Samu, let alone Basso, then and only then will you have a point. Can't wait, because with Menchov as numero uno GC rider at Rabo, Gesink will be lucky to make the top 10 at the Tour. I won't hold my breath. Good rider, but he does not deserve this kind of unrealistic and hyped up anticipation of major performances from fanboys. Nobody does. How about keeping it real in future and if Gesink does not fall, get sick and in the event he wins something, you then lay down praise. But not beforehand simply because he sticks with a few guys in one race.

Pffff... where shall I start...
Did you even watch the Vuelta? He dropped Basso on almost every mountain stage. And Evans as well.
BTW, Mosquera fell as well (twice, in fact, and taking out Gesink with his second fall). Clearly neither he nor Samu had injuries that were even close to Gesink's. So: this doesn't fly.
And I don't feel like explaining why almost everything else you say is BS.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Galic Ho, what did you smoke?
Gesink dropped Basso in nearly every mountain stage... Basso dropped Gesink exactly 0 times.
So where does that add up to 'couldn't match Basso'.

What's more, Gesink even dropped Cadel Evans on the Pandera stage. So uhm, if anyone has been smoking too mutch it's you

 

[Moondance]

Pffff... where shall I start...
Did you even watch the Vuelta? He dropped Basso on almost every mountain stage. And Evans as well.
BTW, Mosquera fell as well (twice, in fact, and taking out Gesink with his second fall). Clearly neither he nor Samu had injuries that were even close to Gesink's. So: this doesn't fly.
And I don't feel like explaining why almost everything else you say is BS.

+1
Prior to his stage 16 fall and injury (see above) Gesink either finished in the same group as Basso (and outsprinted him each time) or put time into him on every mountain top finish. He beat him in the first ITT as well (although Basso did take "6 in the prologue). On stage 19 (the last mountain stage) Gesink struggled with his injuries and lost 4"50 to all the other GC favorites, who finished together.

 

[Spine Concept]

Tone it down sourpuss. "Ridiculous statements." This from you, who earlier posted that Gesink almost won the Vuelta and had second in the bag! What do you people smoke? Drop the show boating and at least acknowledge he did not have it in the Vuelta. Ryo was correct on that matter. Ttrying to one up him in petty word games whilst claiming Gesink was going to win is nothing more than delusional fanboy drivel. He couldn't match Basso and Basso is a shadow of his former self. Gesink had one fall, so did Samu, but only one lost lots of time. Samu still finished within a minute of Valverde. Maybe Robert is softer than Samu because he did not fight back after he fell. Maybe he isn't, either way it does not change the fact he did not have the form to win or come second.

Gesink was doing superbly but finished where he inevitably would have. Maybe deduct two minutes from his overall deficit without the fall, but he was never going to match the top three, let alone Basso or Mosquera when they pulled into Madrid. You'll be able to see in this years GT's if your high elevation of Gesink is accurate. Maybe when he beats Evans, Valverde and Samu, let alone Basso, then and only then will you have a point. Can't wait, because with Menchov as numero uno GC rider at Rabo, Gesink will be lucky to make the top 10 at the Tour. I won't hold my breath. Good rider, but he does not deserve this kind of unrealistic and hyped up anticipation of major performances from fanboys. Nobody does. How about keeping it real in future and if Gesink does not fall, get sick and in the event he wins something, you then lay down praise. But not beforehand simply because he sticks with a few guys in one race.

First of all, I will tone it up or down whenever I please; who died and made you ruler of how I react to posts which IN MY OPINION are preposterous?
Secondly, if he did have ''it'' or not at the Vuelta is a matter of perspective, in other words, the one's who have their hater goggles on vis-a-vis the rest. Moreover, if you weren't so ignorant you would have seen the crater in Gesink's knee which compared to Sanchez has more of an effect on your performance. However, it does not surprise me that this fact managed to ''escape'' you, conveniently. Since you're so quick to deem Gesink ''soft'' I'd like to see Sanchez race with such a gash in his knee and see where he ends up. Many would have called it quits after that, but he soldiered on, finishing a respectable 6th place. Think about that before you call him soft. I mean, I like Gesink and all but at least if your claims were in line with reality I could have taken them seriously and maybe even agree with some of what you're saying.
Finally, if the ingorance weren't enough, you chose to just be plain ridiculous in claiming that he was never going to match the top three. However, the Basso comment was when I knew that you are the one that's on something which has expired, sad really.
Carry on with the hating though, I'm sure he feeds of it, makes him a better racer.

 

[battery89]

+1
Prior to his stage 16 fall and injury (see above) Gesink either finished in the same group as Basso (and outsprinted him each time) or put time into him on every mountain top finish. He beat him in the first ITT as well (although Basso did take "6 in the prologue). On stage 19 (the last mountain stage) Gesink struggled with his injuries and lost 4"50 to all the other GC favorites, who finished together.

+1. Even in 08 Vuelta he dropped Valverde a few times. Dauphine 09 he was always on the attack. 09 Vuelta always on the attack and often outsprinted/outplaced his GC counter parts. He would have podiumed Vuelta 09 for sure imo, if not for the hole in his knee.

Gesink is class. He's 23 and has had so many near results, some decent wins and has almost always been in the mix in the races that suit him. Even top 10's at Beijing Road Race and 08 world champs. I think the amount that he is discussed on all cycling boards (both positive and negative) shows that he is already at a world class level. His career begins now. He needs a big breakthrough win to cement himself as a future star and build confidence. Hopefully a stage in the tour/KOM, the Dauphine GC or something like that. He just needs to stay on his bike

Also imo he is not soft at all which was the original question of this thread LoL. Broken wrist TdF 09, hole in knee Vuelta 09. Never makes excuses, just says he wasn't good enough or gave it his all.

 

[avantage]

His future is bright, I think.
But yeah, currently he's not the best bike racer around.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Pffff... where shall I start...
Did you even watch the Vuelta? He dropped Basso on almost every mountain stage. And Evans as well.
BTW, Mosquera fell as well (twice, in fact, and taking out Gesink with his second fall). Clearly neither he nor Samu had injuries that were even close to Gesink's. So: this doesn't fly.
And I don't feel like explaining why almost everything else you say is BS.

Galic Ho, what did you smoke?
Gesink dropped Basso in nearly every mountain stage... Basso dropped Gesink exactly 0 times.
So where does that add up to 'couldn't match Basso'.

What's more, Gesink even dropped Cadel Evans on the Pandera stage. So uhm, if anyone has been smoking too mutch it's you

+1

lol you took the words out of my mouth, I can't tolerate the dribble he just wrote, he clearly didn't watch the race or seriously has memory issues. delusional post.

Gesink was brilliant in the vuelta, and even after the crash did a great final ITT, so I'm certain he would have held on to his second place, no way he would've lost podium.

I don't recall Basso or Evans ever gettin time from gesink in the mountains. The toughest stage he rode away from them anyway.

ANd yeh he had some good moments in the vuelta in 08 where he beat guys like valverde and sastre.

I wont bother with Ryo Hazuki, I am certain time will prove him wrong. Certain!

It is not so much the content of the thread i'm talking about. It is more that someones hero is getting shitted on and for once it looks like it is not Mr Evans. I just thought Aus would have taken the chance to sink the boot into them, like what gets done to him all the time.

To be fair Evans has had a lot of excuses in the past, and likes to play the blame game. Gesink doesn't.

 

[Galic Ho]

First of all, I will tone it up or down whenever I please; who died and made you ruler of how I react to posts which IN MY OPINION are preposterous?
Secondly, if he did have ''it'' or not at the Vuelta is a matter of perspective, in other words, the one's who have their hater goggles on vis-a-vis the rest. Moreover, if you weren't so ignorant you would have seen the crater in Gesink's knee which compared to Sanchez has more of an effect on your performance. However, it does not surprise me that this fact managed to ''escape'' you, conveniently. Since you're so quick to deem Gesink ''soft'' I'd like to see Sanchez race with such a gash in his knee and see where he ends up. Many would have called it quits after that, but he soldiered on, finishing a respectable 6th place. Think about that before you call him soft. I mean, I like Gesink and all but at least if your claims were in line with reality I could have taken them seriously and maybe even agree with some of what you're saying.
Finally, if the ingorance weren't enough, you chose to just be plain ridiculous in claiming that he was never going to match the top three. However, the Basso comment was when I knew that you are the one that's on something which has expired, sad really.
Carry on with the hating though, I'm sure he feeds of it, makes him a better racer.

Crater in knee. Pictures? Reports? No, that news around these parts unless your:
A) Dutch
B) A Gesink fanboy/lover
C) Favourite team is Rabo

Nobody died and made me ruler. You were treated in the same manner you treated another. Clearly it ****ed you off. Deal with. Welcome to the forum.

If you weren't so quick to polish Roberts knob, you'd realise I was pointing out your mistakes. Mistakes you did not correct in your response. It still stands that Gesink lost time and the reason was because of the way he rode. It still stands that he falls quite frequently. Also, I never said he was soft. I merely said that another poster, who had said Gesink was soft, reasoning was spot on but failed in my response to say that the conclusion one can make would clearly label Gesink as soft. I suggest you get a room and reacquaint your love for team Rabo. Drop the excuses. If a bung knee was never mentioned last September why is it now, 7 months later, a talking point? It is a talking point because this thread is for Gesink fanboys and fanboys make excuses for their man crushes.

Fanboys. They come in every shape and form and yes, they are all flaming in their love for other men. I don't hate Gesink, I just don't talk people up who have yet to perform. You said he was going to win. You said Gesink had second covered in the event he did not have 1st. As I said. Ignorance, which fanboy love explains. That is calling it as it happened. Not hatred. I did not criticize Gesink personally or lay down hatred for the guy. I merely described what occurred and commented on his riding. I'll say it again. He came where he always was going to and your points will have substance when he makes the podium of a GT. Till then, prove it. Oh, you can't? Sob...sob.

 

[Galic Ho]

+1

lol you took the words out of my mouth, I can't tolerate the dribble he just wrote, he clearly didn't watch the race or seriously has memory issues. delusional post.

For the record. I have the best memory of anyone I know. I remember quite a few group sprints. Yes there were gaps and yes, Basso did finish back at times. But as you pointed out so did Gesink. Difference being nobody is making excuses for Basso. Also, you also noted Gesink lost a tone of time all up. It is a 3 week race, not a 2 week race. Stay upright and out last is how GTs are won. Your boy did not do this. I interpret the reasoning behind this differently. Oh, yes, delusional. Seeing as I am not from Melbourne we can assume most people I know have IQs above 110. Get back to me when you hang around such a crowd. Delusional. So funny coming from a Mexican.

Get his **** out of your mouth. You fanboys and your man crushes put Liggett's hard on for Lance to shame. Oh, another Mexican fanboy...surprise, surprise. Sure you can tolerate it. Basso stayed on his bike and finished 4th in two GT's for the year. String together a poll and ask the forum who they thought had a better year. Gesink or Basso? Let's see Gesink beat Basso in the Tour. Not going to happen and you know it.

Gesink was brilliant in the vuelta, and even after the crash did a great final ITT, so I'm certain he would have held on to his second place, no way he would've lost podium.

You sound like ACF94. This is called fanboy love. Better known as a man crush. Logic flies out the door and final placings mean nothing. It is what the lover thinks was going to happen, had some event not occurred, that matters. He rode well, but not well enough.

I wont bother with Ryo Hazuki, I am certain time will prove him wrong. Certain!

You don't get it do you? He was commenting on what has happened thus far in said riders career. You fanboys misplaced the context and started screaming he was a hater. Just calling it as it is. Ryo stated, based on everything Gesink has done so far, he still needs to grow to become this giant killer you and your ilk have anointed him as. Did you do this to Dekker a few years back as well? Maybe it's a Rabo thing. How is that home in Spain coming along? Close to a chemist?

Till such a change happens, the evidence is against you. But don't let that stop your fanboy love from rewriting history to make a good story. One day, one day. That is what the fans always say. You should know. Melbournians always sing that tune about their AFL club. Heck he may even beat big Dennis! Keep dreaming. He won't win anything big any time soon. Do you remember the Dauphine last year? They let him go some of the hills. Why? Isn't Robert Gesink the best young rider around? Why would AC, CE and AV let him go? Because they know they will finish ahead of him on GC. History, form and common sense tell them and the non fanboy lovers as much. GT's are three week events. You have to perform across the board. Basso did this. Better for him if he stayed upright and avoided a "crater" in his knee. Great choice of words by the way. Ha, ha. A crater means you cannot move your leg. Ask Robbie McEwen about his knee injury last season. "Crater"! Ha, ha.

To be fair Evans has had a lot of excuses in the past, and likes to play the blame game. Gesink doesn't.

Which is where you guys come in. Who needs to make excuses, when as a pro sportsman, you know fanboys will make all the excuses in the world for you on the interwebs. Moondance is exempt. The rest, well I suggest you all not to forget to put "Gesink cheer squad leader" on your CV's. Your next boss might also be a fan. You know, free kudos and all. Good old back slapping and buddy cheering.

 

[Francois the Postman]

 

[auscyclefan94]

+1

lol you took the words out of my mouth, I can't tolerate the dribble he just wrote, he clearly didn't watch the race or seriously has memory issues. delusional post.

Gesink was brilliant in the vuelta, and even after the crash did a great final ITT, so I'm certain he would have held on to his second place, no way he would've lost podium.

I don't recall Basso or Evans ever gettin time from gesink in the mountains. The toughest stage he rode away from them anyway.

ANd yeh he had some good moments in the vuelta in 08 where he beat guys like valverde and sastre.

I wont bother with Ryo Hazuki, I am certain time will prove him wrong. Certain!

To be fair Evans has had a lot of excuses in the past, and likes to play the blame game. Gesink doesn't.

And Gesink is God and can do no wrong. Evans would of crushed Gesink in the tt. Evans and valverde climbed away from Gesink on the Xorett de cati climb but then caught on in the descent. It was Evans' 2nd GT of the year. I wouldn't really count Gesink's participation in the Tour much. I am certain if evans didn't puncture he would of held onto 2nd and gesink would of been behind him. You can bring up all the hypotheticals you like but it doesn't change them. Your statement is more based from that you hate evans so much. Most Dutch posters seem to hate him on here.


Timmy, don't you remember the dauphine? You call me biased but you are just as bad!

 

[Francois the Postman]

Gallic ho, you said a knee was never mentioned in September, so you obviously struggle to get front-page Vuelta news the first time around, when it's all over the place.

So I figured you missed the photo earlier in this thread too, as you post after it shows a curious ability to ignore that what is in plain sight. You asked for photographic proof that was already given.

Maybe you get it 2nd time around.

 

[Galic Ho]

Galic Ho, what did you smoke?
Gesink dropped Basso in nearly every mountain stage... Basso dropped Gesink exactly 0 times.
So where does that add up to 'couldn't match Basso'.

What's more, Gesink even dropped Cadel Evans on the Pandera stage. So uhm, if anyone has been smoking too mutch it's you

One an ordinal scale 4 trumps 6 or so I was taught. But lets ignore final placings and have the winner be the guy with the most fans.

 

[Francois the Postman]

And Gesink is God and can do no wrong. Evans would of crushed Gesink in the tt. Evans and valverde climbed away from Gesink on the Xorett de cati climb but then caught on in the descent. It was Evans' 2nd GT of the year. I wouldn't really count Gesink's participation in the Tour much. I am certain if evans didn't puncture he would of held onto 2nd and gesink would of been behind him. You can bring up all the hypotheticals you like but it doesn't change them. Your statement is more based from that you hate evans so much. All you Dutch posters seem to hate him on here.


Timmy, don't you remember the dauphine? You call me biased but you are just as bad!

Nope.67890

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Blah Blah I'm an ignorant tool...

You ask for pictures:

lol he needed stitches in his knee... In his knee... Let's see you rode up mountains with sticthes in your knee.

You ask for reports:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...kay-to-start-vuelta-stage-18-after-crash.html

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gesink-mosquera-being-assessed-after-crash

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/robert-gesink-dutch-courage-at-the-vuelta

Gesink’s knee injury was deep enough that the tendons could be seen under his skin and, with other injuries to his back, arm and buttocks, he is certain to have had a rough night’s sleep.

---

Seriously how can you be so ignorant, it was indeed big news at the time, and it wasn't just us 'fanbuys/dutch folk' talking about it. You were clearly living under a rock at the time.

Gesink was 2nd, just 31 seconds behind valverde. Yet of course the injury had no impact on why he lost almost 5 mins on a rather easy and mediocre final mountain stage.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Nope.67890

I am not saying it's just the dutch but none of the dutch posters never seem to have anything nice to say about him. I think Robert Gesink will challenge Contador at the tour in the future and tipped him to be the main challenger of Contador. i can still post positive things about a rider even if i don't like the rider. (not the case for gesink)

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

ACF i'm not on your level, I have in the past and will continue to criticize Gesink on many occasions.

He is a terrible bike handler, and has a lot to learn. My statements in this thread are in re: to gesink dropping to 6th because he just wasn't good enough. ANd that eh will never win anything in his career... lot a load of BS.