Is Robert Gesink soft?

[auscyclefan94]

ACF i'm not on your level, I have in the past and will continue to criticize Gesink on many occasions.

He is a terrible bike handler, and has a lot to learn. My statements in this thread are in re: to gesink dropping to 6th because he just wasn't good enough. ANd that eh will never win anything in his career... lot a load of BS.

Denial is bliss!

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I am not saying it's just the dutch but none of the dutch posters never seem to have anything nice to say about him. I think Robert Gesink will challenge Contador at the tour in the future and tipped him to be the main challenger of Contador. i can still post positive things about a rider even if i don't like the rider. (not the case for gesink)

what a joke. I congratulated him and said he was very good at the ardennes. when he rides good I say he does. BUT when he complains and makes excuses that is when I state my negative feelings against him. Other riders do it to, but then when you - in the past - bring up and support his complaints naturally we will argue that. Evans is a great rider, I just hate his attitude at times.

 

[auscyclefan94]

what truth. I congratulated him and said he was very good at the ardennes. when he rides good I never say he does. BUT when he answers questions that is when I state my negative, idiotic feelings against him. Other riders do it to, but then when you - in the past - bring up, provide evidence and support his reasonings unaturally we will argue that. Evans is a great rider, I just hate him all the time.

edited!

 

[Francois the Postman]

I am not saying it's just the dutch but none of the dutch posters never seem to have anything nice to say about him. I think Robert Gesink will challenge Contador at the tour in the future and tipped him to be the main challenger of Contador. i can still post positive things about a rider even if i don't like the rider. (not the case for gesink)

And there are many Dutch who tip Evans to do well in many events too, almost daily at the moment.

Think what you see is not (always) what reality is offering you.


Then again, you are an Evans fan ....... no-no-no why could I not just leave the ball before an open goal be. My own goal too. Why oh why.....

 

[Galic Ho]

It wasn't just a fall in stage 16 (?).... He got injured... Pretty badly as you see. Try riding a 174km Vuelta stage with 3500m of climbing with that little flesh wound. But he didn't give up, and fought against the pain. Still managed to only lose a minute or so to Valv in the final TT... Decent performance given the circumstances.

Dutch site dude. This site and the forums had none of that last September. Fair enough, he looks hurt, but it looks worse than McEwens. McEwen was out for months and could not ride the next day. We all know Gesink did. Looks can be deceiving. So we have no way to gauge the actual damage, which I will explain below. If that is the reason for him coming 6th, which people are entitled to hold onto, then fair enough. But it still doesn't explain other events.

Gesink came 5th in last years Dauphine right? Why wasn't he a threat for the top 3 then? My point is that people make excuses left, right and centre when it suits their interests. How about some people here make one for Cadel and his tyre change? What happens, happens. I have maintained for a long time, that if Evans had not lost the time he still would have come third. Why? Because he was chasing. The Spaniards were always going to attack, as historically they have and when they didn't have to, strategy dictated they stay put. Gesink has to learn that finishing ahead or with other GC guys is all good but you need to do it for the entire 3 weeks, not just the first 2.

I could always make an argument for 2003 that Ullrich should have beaten Lance but didn't because he waited when Lance fell. It is arguing semantics. Really pointless. You can never tell if Gesink would have had it, but we do know he didn't. He fell and was hurt. How much did this affect him? A bit would be a fair estimate as he bled time. Would he have still lost time uninjured? Probably. His prior results said as much. If not, why haven't Rabo sent him to the Giro to try and win it? Menchov cannot win everything. Or perhaps Rabo know that Gesink needs to mature some more.

As for knee injuries. I can name heaps who have had nasty falls and still hold form. Evans crash in 2008 was bad. Vino in 2008 was bad (the drug side doesn't count on these forums, check the Clinic). They still delivered on what was expected (GC and stage wins). Has Gesink delivered on what the fans of his here expected? I'd say no, because if he had, then they wouldn't need excuses. They'd be rubbing it in everyone who said he would wins faces, much like ACF94 did after Cadel won Fleche.

Oh and Gesink isn't soft. He may not be as hard as other riders. But being softer than a rider who is made of granite, does not mean you are soft. Good rider. Good future, but I'll wait till he performs before I talk him (or anyone else) up. I class him with Nibali and Kreuziger. I don't talk any of them up because they are too patchy for my liking.

 

[auscyclefan94]

And there are many Dutch who tip Evans to do well in many events too, almost daily at the moment.

Think what you see is not (always) what reality is offering you.


Then again, you are an Evans fan ....... no-no-no why could I not just leave the ball before an open goal be. My own goal too. Why oh why.....

Yes, they tip him to win but always cut him down, over analyse and take comments out of context.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Dutch site dude. This site and the forums had none of that last September.

DUDE they did, every cycling site did, and it was major discussion here last September. Don't claim sh!t that isn't true pal.

Sorry your claims of having a good memory seem like a joke to me at the moment.

Oh and Gesink isn't soft. He may not be as hard as other riders. But being softer than a rider who is made of granite, does not mean you are soft. Good rider. Good future, but I'll wait till he performs before I talk him (or anyone else) up. I class him with Nibali and Kreuziger. I don't talk any of them up because they are too patchy for my liking.

I don't disagree with this, but writing him completely off like the other guy was a joke.

 

[theyoungest]

Crater in knee. Pictures? Reports? No, that news around these parts unless your:
A) Dutch
B) A Gesink fanboy/lover
C) Favourite team is Rabo

Nobody died and made me ruler. You were treated in the same manner you treated another. Clearly it ****ed you off. Deal with. Welcome to the forum.

If you weren't so quick to polish Roberts knob, you'd realise I was pointing out your mistakes. Mistakes you did not correct in your response. It still stands that Gesink lost time and the reason was because of the way he rode. It still stands that he falls quite frequently. Also, I never said he was soft. I merely said that another poster, who had said Gesink was soft, reasoning was spot on but failed in my response to say that the conclusion one can make would clearly label Gesink as soft. I suggest you get a room and reacquaint your love for team Rabo. Drop the excuses. If a bung knee was never mentioned last September why is it now, 7 months later, a talking point? It is a talking point because this thread is for Gesink fanboys and fanboys make excuses for their man crushes.

Fanboys. They come in every shape and form and yes, they are all flaming in their love for other men. I don't hate Gesink, I just don't talk people up who have yet to perform. You said he was going to win. You said Gesink had second covered in the event he did not have 1st. As I said. Ignorance, which fanboy love explains. That is calling it as it happened. Not hatred. I did not criticize Gesink personally or lay down hatred for the guy. I merely described what occurred and commented on his riding. I'll say it again. He came where he always was going to and your points will have substance when he makes the podium of a GT. Till then, prove it. Oh, you can't? Sob...sob.

Seriously dude, just don't react in a thread about a rider if you clearly know absolutely nothing about him or the races he's done, except for the results you looked up somewhere. And then accusing everyone else of ignorance.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Seriously dude, just don't react in a thread about a rider if you clearly know absolutely nothing about him or the races he's done, except for the results you looked up somewhere. And then accusing everyone else of ignorance.

He isn't wrong. The dutch on this forum are very defensive of their own.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

He isn't wrong. The dutch on this forum are very defensive of their own.

dude, he isn't talking about that. If your gonna have input or have a go at someone, then do it when you have some actual input.

youngest was merely bringing up the point that Garlic ho is making claims about the race/media reaction/forum reaction to an event last year that just isn't true. Then he is claiming where the ignorant ones when he is clearly wrong. Once again you have missed the entire point of a post. Can you really be this thick?

 

[Galic Ho]

lol he needed stitches in his knee... In his knee... Let's see you rode up mountains with sticthes in your knee.

I can't remember the last time I fell off my bike. At least, unlike you, I live near some hills with inclines over 10%. How high is the elevation in Melbourne? Compare that to NSW Central Tablelands for all the foreigners. Explain the topography while you're at it. I win in the places to ride stakes Basically, apart from the snowies, I live in the hilliest geographic region in my state. I don't fall off my bike and I mountain bike off road often. Then again, I don't get sick or hurt. Maybe I'm lucky. Maybe that's it. Australia is the lucky country. Maybe Gesink can borrow some of your luck.

You ask for reports:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...kay-to-start-vuelta-stage-18-after-crash.html

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gesink-mosquera-being-assessed-after-crash

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/robert-gesink-dutch-courage-at-the-vuelta

Google working for you? I don't check out crappy UK sites unless I want to hear about pop culture. Yes I read the cyclingnews articles at the time. Riveting stuff really. Surprised you didn't go over the threads to see what the forums said. As I said, only the Rabo/Gesink fans paid attention to. Why? Because they needed an excuse (regardless of relevance) and excuses help sooth disappointment.

You really have gotten upset. Did you cry this hard when they threw the Chicken out of the Tour? I didn't he was my pick at the start (with Vino) to win.

Seriously how can you be so ignorant, it was indeed big news at the time, and it wasn't just us 'fanbuys/dutch folk' talking about it. You were clearly living under a rock at the time.

Maybe I was living on top of a rock. Refer back to above comments about NSW vs VIC. One or two news articles only show that a journalist had something to write about. Why were there next to no discussion about this last bloody September? Why now? If this is as bad as has been suggested, and Gesink should have won, why wasn't it next to all the talk about Cadel being robbed? Could it be that too few people cared? Or better yet, perhaps they hadn't thought about it at the time because it was not true and they didn't need a crutch to hold onto, when someone posed a question for the forum, that their numero uno rider was soft.

Gesink was 2nd, just 31 seconds behind valverde. Yet of course the injury had no impact on why he lost almost 5 mins on a rather easy and mediocre final mountain stage.

No you don't get it. He would not have lost as much time, but the final placings (ok he'd have gotten 5th) would remain the same as they are. Make an argument for Cadel while you're at it. He lost 1:20 with the tyre and then had the 10 second penalty. He finished 1:32 down. Everything you've given is what is known as an excuse. Your buddy would have had a point that Gesink was going to win or get second if at the time he fell, he was leading. He wasn't. Hence he wasn't robbed. He was either unlucky or not paying attention. The last person I can think of getting robbed in the Vuelta was Robert Millar. Twenty five years back.

 

[auscyclefan94]

dude, he isn't talking about that. If your gonna have input or have a go at someone, then do it when you have some actual input.

youngest was merely bringing up the point that Garlic ho is making claims about the race/media reaction/forum reaction to an event last year that just isn't true. Then he is claiming where the ignorant ones when he is clearly wrong. Once again you have missed the entire point of a post. Can you really be this thick?

No, accidently quoted the wrong person. But your comments do prove my point. Your denial makes you look thick. First step in rehabilitation is admittinng and realising you have a problem. Keep on trying!

 

[Francois the Postman]

Oh and Gesink isn't soft. He may not be as hard as other riders. But being softer than a rider who is made of granite, does not mean you are soft. Good rider. Good future, but I'll wait till he performs before I talk him (or anyone else) up. I class him with Nibali and Kreuziger. I don't talk any of them up because they are too patchy for my liking.

And if you paid attention, you'll find that many Dutch voices here do exactly the same, if not most.

If the bar for blind fanboyism is lowered to "looks promising, but needs to make a mark soon. Might do 'well' at this year's Tour, top 10, top 5 (and that's from the wildest dreamers here)" then fanboyism is in trouble.

If there is a group of people here who keep touting Gesink as a dead cert GT champ, please point me in the direction, as all I see is Dutch people obviously excited that a Dutch guy on a Dutch team is starting to show himself at the head of races where we had nada for years, but who keep bracing themselves against hype and overexpectations, unprompted.

Once there are daily threads here started by the Dutch about how this Gesink guy will tower above all else, the way we have had EBH et al, come and drop in again.

Up until then, I will enjoy the posts by those who are equally delighted that we have young potential with some great results already, hampered or not, who might "tower" amongst the front. As he is doing already.

There you have it, I'm a nauseating blind fanboy too. Can you pick a more interesting fight please.

 

[Moondance]

And Gesink is God and can do no wrong. Evans would of crushed Gesink in the tt. Evans and valverde climbed away from Gesink on the Xorett de cati climb but then caught on in the descent. It was Evans' 2nd GT of the year. I wouldn't really count Gesink's participation in the Tour much. I am certain if evans didn't puncture he would of held onto 2nd and gesink would of been behind him. You can bring up all the hypotheticals you like but it doesn't change them. Your statement is more based from that you hate evans so much. All you Dutch posters seem to hate him on here.


Timmy, don't you remember the dauphine? You call me biased but you are just as bad!

I honestly think he's pretty swell... I just don't particularly like the team he's on now though.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I honestly think he's pretty swell... I just don't particularly like the team he's on now though.

ok, most!

 

[Galic Ho]

DUDE they did, every cycling site did, and it was major discussion here last September. Don't claim sh!t that isn't true pal.

I read the cyclingnews articles and read the Vuelta thread here. Sure I knew he'd fallen but it wasn't made into a deal breaker. He fell and latter lost time. I didn't see it as he fell and lost a certain podium spot. That was always a theoretical and the tone of the articles suggested as much. Rabo didn't cry and Gesink didn't. He did well. Basically the tone at the time was not harsh, but at ease. People didn't expect a miracle and when one wasn't delivered there was no need for a massive anticlimactic change in tone.

I don't disagree with this, but writing him completely off like the other guy was a joke.

I pretty much go with the given facts and expected results. Sure Gesink surprised me with some of his climbing but he didn't blow my expectations either. I remember hearing he had a massive kick and kept tuning in, waiting for it. I saw some weaknesses against some of his rivals (not all but definitely against the big ones). I assumed it was all hype by fans of his. You know, just like the hype we hear about Evans winning the Tour. The type you roll your eyes at and take with a grain of salt.

I refuse to talk Nibali, Kreuziger and Gesink up for two reasons.
1. They are young and have heaps to learn.
2. They are not the number one riders on their teams. Other guys are stronger. Guys like Basso, Pellizotti and Menchov. Guys who all have very impressive results thjat are reflective of their stature, pedigree and time in the sport. Results that these younger guys will have when they are older.

Till they are older and get those results, anything good they show, I'll take. Saves me having to beat myself and my perception of them up, when the inevitable happens and they show they are human and stumble or fall short of expectations. This leaves room for me to be surprised, which is far more enjoyable. Just like Vino winning Leige. I didn't expect anything from his return and it is highly enjoyable because I expected nothing.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

No, accidently quoted the wrong person. But your comments do prove my point. Your denial makes you look thick. First step in rehabilitation is admittinng and realising you have a problem. Keep on trying!

i give up.

And if you paid attention, you'll find that many Dutch voices here do exactly the same, if not most.

If the bar for blind fanboyism is lowered to "looks promising, but needs to make a mark soon. Might do 'well' at this year's Tour, top 10, top 5 (and that's from the wildest dreamers here)" then fanboyism is in trouble.

If there is a group of people here who keep touting Gesink as a dead cert GT champ, please point me in the direction, as all I see is Dutch people obviously excited that a Dutch guy on a Dutch team is starting to show himself at the head of races where we had nada for years, but who keep bracing themselves against hype and overexpectations, unprompted.

Once there are daily threads here started by the Dutch about how this Gesink guy will tower above all else, the way we have had EBH et al, come and drop in again.

Up until then, I will enjoy the posts by those who are equally delighted that we have young potential with some great results already, hampered or not, who might "tower" amongst the front. As he is doing already.

There you have it, I'm a nauseating blind fanboy too. Can you pick a more interesting fight please.

Other then this I can't think of a gesink thread made before this. I am guilty of being excited about gesink, but I honesty don't think the dutch people here make excuses for gesink or say something insane.

I dunno why this is even a topic in this thread (But if ACF wants to get into it) I can think of some guys... cadel evans... having various threads made about him, many gloating.. and many are from a single user

Garlic Ho: I'd agree with you if Gesink's inability to stay on his bike is the reason he fails... and in time I expect experience will improve this. But suggesting had he not crashed he still would have lost that time is a bit of a joke imo.

EDIT: Garlic ho again: I agree with you reasons not to expect anything from them, but the talent is there, and yes the fact is they still have a lot to learn. Experience is a big part of cycling.

 

[auscyclefan94]

i give up.



Other then this I can't think of a gesink thread made before this. I am guilty of being excited about gesink, but I honesty don't think the dutch people here make excuses for gesink or say something insane.

I dunno why this is even a topic in this thread (But if ACF wants to get into it) I can think of some guys... cadel evans... having various threads made about him, many gloating.. and many are from a single user

Garlic Ho: I'd agree with you if Gesink's inability to stay on his bike is the reason he fails... and in time I expect experience will improve this. But suggesting had he not crashed he still would have lost that time is a bit of a joke imo.

Please find any threads I made that were inappropriate.

 

[Moondance]

Please find any threads I made that were inappropriate.

This one's rather cute

Cadel Evans: Officially a Champion!

And this was after dim had already gone through the trouble of making you an official gloating thread.

That said, I don't think any thread is inappropriate as long as it will generate discussion and isn't covered by some other active thread.

EDIT: Found another cute one: Cadel looking ahead... (a poll on Evans' potential future team)

 

[auscyclefan94]

This one's rather cute

Cadel Evans: Officially a Champion!

And this was after dim had already gone through the trouble of making you an official gloating thread.

That said, I don't think any thread is inappropriate as long as it will generate discussion and isn't covered by some other active thread.

EDIT: Found another cute one: Cadel looking ahead... (a poll on Evans' potential future team)

i was in the process of making the champion one when dim posted his one. The future team one is...interesting looking in hindsight.

 

[theyoungest]

Yes, they tip him to win but always cut him down, over analyse and take comments out of context.

Mate, he's just an easy target to vent our disappointment when Gesink once again fails to live up to the promise, for whatever reason. Since you've taken up his defense all on your own, you provide a distraction from the miserable state of Dutch cycling.

 

[Francois the Postman]

He isn't wrong. The dutch on this forum are very defensive of their own.

Scuze me? Most of us are pretty harsh critics of our own, and in this thread alone there are several cases in hand. On the whole it is very hard to get Dutch people to embrace a "sport hero". It almost goes against our national nature.

But someone asks a question about a guy a lot of us have noticed, and we respond, and you get all sides of the coin.

Several of us are excited. Been a bit lean on the ground of late. And having lived through the 70s and 80s, it is worse when you had to give up a tasty meal you got served regularly.

But most Dutch posters here are "defensive" in that nuanced "like him, shows promise but needs to get serious results and avoid mishaps" sorta way.

That ain't defensiveness. That's enthusiasm coupled with criticism.

Few (if any) go around this forum gloating about Gesink day in day out, unprompted.

I tend to dislike to overplay my cards, but I equally dislike it when people underplay it or are spouting outright nonsense.

So posts like Gallic Ho get a rebuttal, especially if most of the accusation that comes my way (not Gesink) is based on fold like us saying "blind fanboyish" that he might have kept 2nd spot, that Gesink obviously had nothing really wrong with him, as Mr Memory can rerun the entire Vuelta period in his mind and noticed nothing noteworthy related to those absurd fan claims.

Several of us like seeing Gesink in action. Some of us hope for good times ahead. And a lot of us are laughing at he suggestion that the guy is "soft" or "making excuses".

There are no facts to back that up, and plenty to back the reverse. Apparently engaging in a conversation like that once upon a blue moon is proof of fanboyism gone nuts amongst the defensive about their own Dutch. Yeah right.

Black, white. Let me introduce you to shades of grey.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Mate, he's just an easy target to vent our disappointment when Gesink once again fails to live up to the promise, for whatever reason. Since you've taken up his defense all on your own, you provide a distraction from the miserable state of Dutch cycling.

What? I thought you were one of the ones saying how bloody brilliant we are, all the time, especially when challenged on that.

Get with the program.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Mate, he's just an easy target to vent our disappointment when Gesink once again fails to live up to the promise, for whatever reason. Since you've taken up his defense all on your own, you provide a distraction from the miserable state of Dutch cycling.

You really think evans cops as much as what Gesink does? Come on!

 

[auscyclefan94]

There are no facts to back that up, and plenty to back the reverse. Apparently engaging in a conversation like that once upon a blue moon is proof of fanboyism gone nuts amongst the defensive about their own Dutch. Yeah right.

Black, white. Let me introduce you to shades of grey.

I meant that as a generalised comment. Some posters are that unsimilar to me in fanboyism.