Is Roglic past his prime?

[tobydawq]

As we know, Rogla was a ski-jumper and when he started cycling career he was a grandpa already. He's slowly but surely entering his prime.

I don't think he was even a father yet.

 

[acm]

This thread does seem like an opportunity to just over critique a currently enigmatic rider. He does what he wants and seems pretty good with himself. He'll be deified by rabid fans if he wins some Fall races or written off by those that never thought he would be the King.
Unfortunately, this unproductive category of analysis, separate of each rider's own thread will become the bait click thread for those that need combativeness rather than appreciation of good athletes. It serves the thread creator more than the topic in some strange universe.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Red Rick]

How often has Roglic faced a non-neo pro Pogacar or Vingegaard at the Vuelta?

It's completely irrelevant, it's an intrinsic reason for why being a top level GT rider is a much better niche than being a cobbles specialist.

 

[AmRacer]

It's completely irrelevant, it's an intrinsic reason for why being a top level GT rider is a much better niche than being a cobbles specialist.

Why choose when you can be both?

 

[veganrob]

I think most of us get that it’s going to happen at some point and, if nothing else, a season like this might precipitate that. Remco has the golden glow of youth to bounce him back each time he falls.

Yeah, youth and a couple more kilos will keep him bouncing.

 

[Red Rick]

Why choose when you can be both?

He does have more monument wins than Pedersen as well. Tis an easy thing to forget.

 

[tobydawq]

It's completely irrelevant, it's an intrinsic reason for why being a top level GT rider is a much better niche than being a cobbles specialist.

Okay, Rick.

 

[Cycling111]

How often has Roglic faced a non-neo pro Pogacar or Vingegaard at the Vuelta?

They're determined to count their GTs as if the Vuelta had the same value as the Tour. He has 5 GTs, but they're different from Pogacar's 5 GTs. If that were the case, Roberto Heras would be compared to Indurain, and obviously he isn't. Not even Rominger.
Roglic is on Rominger's scale, no Indurain scale, which is no small feat.

And yes, they're also determined to say he would have won the 2021, 2022, or 2023 Tours when a second-year Pogacar beat him in 2020 at 21 years and alone because UAE were a mediocre team in 2020. Pogacar in 2021 was already far superior to Pogacar's 2020 Tour.

This year, I remember that before the Giro, they were saying that doing Giro-Tour was the best way to go to the Tour. Few of us said that the Giro wasn't training for the Tour, much less at Roglic's age.

I think those kinds of opinions are damaging to Roglic.
He's been very impressive rider, but taking credit for moral achievements he hasn't achieved doesn't help him in a debate.
If he didn't win the Tour in 2020, I think it's clear he had less options in subsequent years.
Let's remember how mediocre UAE was in 2020 and how superior was Lotto Jumbo team in 2020 Tour. Pogacar raced alone and was the same age as Del Toro, who couldn't win the Giro against a fading Simon Yates and Carapaz.
But he was going to win the Tour later against him and Vingegaard.

In fact, he suffered in the Vuelta against Carapaz. I remember those Ecuadorian fans arguments where they said Movistar saved Roglic.
Roglic has been a fantastic rider, but some comments don't help him. The idea that he would have been better at the Tour riding the Giro at the age of 36 was nonsense. All the cyclists who have won the Giro-Tour have done so in their best years, and except for Pantani and Roche, all of whom dominated the Tour. It's very difficult; I don't understand this argument that it was the best thing for him. Obviously, because he's credited with the moral victories of at least three Tours between 2021 and 2024.

Valverde never came close to winning a Tour, and everyone considers him one of the best cyclists of his era, but because no one attributes achievements to him that he couldn't achieve.

That's the problem Ayuso and other riders has had. We don't underestimate Ayuso; his problem is comparing him to cyclists he hasn't yet reached. If he were judged based on his level, he'd be better valued.

 

[tobydawq]

They're determined to count their GTs as if the Vuelta had the same value as the Tour. He has 5 GTs, but they're different from Pogacar's 5 GTs. If that were the case, Roberto Heras would be compared to Indurain, and obviously he isn't. Not even Rominger.
Roglic is on Rominger's scale, no Indurain scale, which is no small feat.

And yes, they're also determined to say he would have won the 2021, 2022, or 2023 Tours when a second-year Pogacar beat him in 2020 at 21 years and alone because UAE were a mediocre team in 2020. Pogacar in 2021 was already far superior to Pogacar's 2020 Tour.

This year, I remember that before the Giro, they were saying that doing Giro-Tour was the best way to go to the Tour. Few of us said that the Giro wasn't training for the Tour, much less at Roglic's age.

I think those kinds of opinions are damaging to Roglic.
He's been very impressive rider, but taking credit for moral achievements he hasn't achieved doesn't help him in a debate.
If he didn't win the Tour in 2020, I think it's clear he had less options in subsequent years.
Let's remember how mediocre UAE was in 2020 and how superior was Lotto Jumbo team in 2020 Tour. Pogacar raced alone and was the same age as Del Toro, who couldn't win the Giro against a fading Simon Yates and Carapaz.
But he was going to win the Tour later against him and Vingegaard.

In fact, he suffered in the Vuelta against Carapaz. I remember those Ecuadorian fans arguments where they said Movistar saved Roglic.
Roglic has been a fantastic rider, but some comments don't help him. The idea that he would have been better at the Tour riding the Giro at the age of 36 was nonsense. All the cyclists who have won the Giro-Tour have done so in their best years, and except for Pantani and Roche, all of whom dominated the Tour. It's very difficult; I don't understand this argument that it was the best thing for him. Obviously, because he's credited with the moral victories of at least three Tours between 2021 and 2024.

Valverde never came close to winning a Tour, and everyone considers him one of the best cyclists of his era, but because no one attributes achievements to him that he couldn't achieve.

That's the problem Ayuso and other riders has had. We don't underestimate Ayuso; his problem is comparing him to cyclists he hasn't yet reached. If he were judged based on his level, he'd be better valued.

Generally agree, but I have two problems with this:

1) I think it's only one poster who maintained that Roglic would win the Tour this year.

2) Valverde is a double moral Tour winner (2006 and 2017).

 

[hrotha]

So you’re saying race analysis has declined with that cult tendency? (Not that I doubt you.)

Well it's inherently very subjective, but in my opinion yes, undoubtedly

 

[Red Rick]

Well it's inherently very subjective, but in my opinion yes, undoubtedly

This forum isn't really leading overall discourse in the sport though, and discourse in general has gone down the crapper in quality.

 

[tobydawq]

Well it's inherently very subjective, but in my opinion yes, undoubtedly

Without having been on the forum back then, I think it's fair to say you look at the early days with very rose-tinted glasses.

 

[Red Rick]

Without having been on the forum back then, I think it's fair to say you look at the early days with very rose-tinted glasses.

The outrage to Leipheimer winning Tour de Suisse in 2011 was a transcedental experience okay.

I was only lurking back then, but I haven't been the same boy since.

 

[hrotha]

Without having been on the forum back then, I think it's fair to say you look at the early days with very rose-tinted glasses.

That's always potentially a factor, but considering this is a very specific change which changed the forum in pretty specific ways and also something I commented on right as it was happening I don't think that's what's going on in this particular case

 

[Cycling111]

It’s a combination of all the factors above (except the 2018/19 one) but also a team factor, this year they are underperforming in almost every race with all the riders but Lipowitz and Pellizzari. Primoz is maybe 36 but Vlasov, Martínez, Van Gils, Pithie, Welsford, Fisher Black, Aleotti, Adrià, Lazkano, Tratnik are not (except Jan)… Just can't be a coincidence

We'll, Pogacar won a Tour in a UAE where Aru and Henao had their worst professional performance.

It can be influential, but it's not everything.

Lipowitz did a better Tour than him on the same team. It wouldn't have happened any other year.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I’m surprised I’m getting pushback for this thread.

I am not.

How often has Roglic faced a non-neo pro Pogacar or Vingegaard at the Vuelta?

Rogla has beaten Pogi at Vuelta already in the past and on Angliru, the steepest part, he did better then Jonas, plus finished ahead on Angliru when still riding for previous team. Jonas won Vuetla this year but IMHO didn't show an unbeatable level of form. On top of that Rogla has 4 Vuelta victories in his bag, Jonas has 1 and Pogi 0. Vuelta hence IMHO isn't the race to chose is you want to make some (bogus) claim about Rogla. Tour would IMHO serve your argument much better, said that, even at the Tour i am sure that Rogla will eventually beat both Pogi and Jonas.

There was no pun at all.

I don't know on how @Oldman felt in regards to the old age remark, so i won't be the judge of that. If you asked @Oldman and are speaking in @Oldman behalf, than thanks for clarifying that.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

said that, even at the Tour i am sure that Rogla will eventually beat both Pogi and Jonas.

 

[RedheadDane]

even at the Tour i am sure that Rogla will eventually beat both Pogi and Jonas.

On a stage?
Sure.
In the GC?
I doubt it.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Maybe he will keep on riding forever because Noriaki Kasai is his idol?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKzlRWMwsy0

 

[CyclistAbi]

@RedheadDane

If they won't really mess it up then basically RBH has third place, or higher, reserved at the Tour. Now it's true that there will likely be an interesting inner team dynamic involved at RBH but i still feel that is a good opportunity for rider such as Rogla (or Lipo or Remco).

Besides Rogla already hinted he is eying Vuelta and ToS for the 2026 season. From Tour perspective i guess that means he can enter the race rather fresh and relaxed, if selected.

 

[CyclistAbi]

All in all RBH is still rather bad at one day race events, lets see if Rogla can change that till the end of the season. Prime or no prime.

Optimus prime.

 

[Offline]

Past his prime forsure.. But still have big wins in him..

 

[aphronesis]

And again, but differently to Wout, that’s a combination of motivation, a

Well it's inherently very subjective, but in my opinion yes, undoubtedly

Yeah, I don’t follow to the extent you have and do, but more generally it seems that an overall cultural shift to data points has accompanied a deficit of critical readings.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Watching EC RR maybe we should change the title to Jonas? And just use this thread for taking a dig against prime athletes in general. At least until the boomerang returns, each and every time.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Watching EC RR maybe we should change the title to Jonas? And just use this thread for taking a dig against prime athletes in general. At least until the boomerang returns, each and every time.

I thought you'd thank me for consolidating all these posters into one place for you to pacify, educate, and enlighten.