Is Simon Gerrans the best ever Australian roadie?

[Tournesol]

no, its Gerro for me.

he is a winner. And now he has the team support. Good to see Impey back

I read the full thread and understand your premise that a monument outstrips a GT but i don't agree. Winning Le Tour is the pinnacle of the sport IMO, Evans win put Australia on the map in a way that Gerro's MSR LBL victories could never do, its that simple, but hey, its good to have different viewpoints.

 

[blackcat]

I read the full thread and understand your premise that a monument outstrips a GT but i don't agree. Winning Le Tour is the pinnacle of the sport IMO, Evans win put Australia on the map in a way that Gerro's MSR LBL victories could never do, its that simple, but hey, its good to have different viewpoints.

yes. I am making a distinction; pure cycling is the one-day race when the winner crosses the line in a selective race, a hilly race like Liege, or Fleche, or Worlds.

Now, Evans potentially could have had a fine career as a one-day rider in Lombardia and Liege too, like Armstrong could have, but they went to where their bread was buttered and the money and revenue and spotlight shined brightest at the Tour.

Most would think that the Tour is the ultimate indicator of talent and ability. I concede this position, and it has validity, i was just offering a devils advocate.

in the bifurcated dichotomy, of single day selective races like Ardennes where the winner breaches the finish tape first, versus the multiple stage Grand Tours where one does not need to win a single stage, I am promoting the idea that there is a purity in winning where you cross the line, the physical line, the geographic line, first. In a selective parcours where are the chaff are dropped and do not make it to contest the last 20 kilometres and it is only the hard men who go for the victory.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Gerrans doen't even come close to McEwen, who really dominated his field for a while.

Gerrans is indeed in line with Evans and Anderson: second tier riders at their field, that managed to get some really nice wins, although those were clearly outliers.

 

[Akuryo]

Gerrans doen't even come close to McEwen, who really dominated his field for a while.

Gerrans is indeed in line with Evans and Anderson: second tier riders at their field, that managed to get some really nice wins, although those were clearly outliers.

I'm with you, but you forgot one crucial thing: This forum usually doesn't give a **** about sprinters.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Cycling is about winning, not about GC top 10s

 

[blackcat]

Gerrans doen't even come close to McEwen, who really dominated his field for a while.

Gerrans is indeed in line with Evans and Anderson: second tier riders at their field, that managed to get some really nice wins, although those were clearly outliers.

a sprint is not selective. Without his teams help to compose a sprint, Cav and Mcewen would never have won.

Like Cav could never win an Olympics with only 4 teammates in a 5 member team.

It was effectively, the field less those four teammates, v Cavendish. No one wanted to ride Cav to a finish during 2009-2012. He only could in Grand Tours, because he had 8 teammates, 21 stages, flat stages, and other teams with sprinters who had their team support and were motivated to contest a field sprint.

Sprinting on the road, is not pure cycling.

Gerro is far and away a better rider than Robbie Mac, and I was a major fan of Mcewen. In fact, I dont even know when I was a fan of Gerrans, just like Froome, I just can appreciate their ability to win a race.

 

[Akuryo]

Cycling is about winning, not about GC top 10s

I know what you mean. But look at the latests posts in here: Future GT-winner, best GT of the year, best GT-rider of all times, best GT-rider at the moment, ... only GT-talk. I too think there is more to cycling then just climbing.

On a sidenote, if we follow your logic, then Purito is one hell of a fail.

 

[Netserk]

On a sidenote, if we follow your logic, then Purito is one hell of a fail.

Can anyone disagree with that?

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

a sprint is not selective. Without his teams help to compose a sprint, Cav and Mcewen would never have won.

Did you even see McEwen sprinting? He was the king of solo sprinting, without team support. I'll never forget that epic TdF win in Canterbury, but there's plenty of examples.

On a sidenote, if we follow your logic, then Purito is one hell of a fail.

He's not the greatest of his time, although far better than Gerrans of course. Purito has better and more wins, and is regarded a first tier rider most of his career.

 

[DFA123]

I know what you mean. But look at the latests posts in here: Future GT-winner, best GT of the year, best GT-rider of all times, best GT-rider at the moment, ... only GT-talk. I too think there is more to cycling then just climbing.

On a sidenote, if we follow your logic, then Purito is one hell of a fail.

And riders like Andrei Tchmil or Peter Van Petegem are better than Jan Ullrich (who actually has a fairly similar palmares to Evans).

 

[blackcat]

Did you even see McEwen sprinting? He was the king of solo sprinting, without team support. I'll never forget that epic TdF win in Canterbury, but there's plenty of examples.


He's not the greatest of his time, although far better than Gerrans of course. Purito has better and more wins, and is regarded a first tier rider most of his career.

you are right about that. but that is not what i meant.

i meant getting Davitamon-Lotto on the front, to ensure the peloton finishes together so they are sprinting for the win!!!

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

And riders like Andrei Tchmil or Peter Van Petegem are better than Jan Ullrich (who actually has a fairly similar palmares to Evans).

I wouldn't call Ullrich a second tier rider with a few seldom wins.

I would call Evans (2 second places and one win in his only race that mattered for him), and Gerrans (take away this year, and there's nothing left) exactly that.

Ullrich was one of the absolute best in his field. As is Rodriguez. Both of them had trouble winning, partly because of exceptional competition (one guy for Ullrich, an other stronger guy every year for Purito)

 

[DFA123]

I wouldn't call Ullrich a second tier rider with a few seldom wins.

I would call Evans (2 second places and one win in his only race that mattered for him), and Gerrans (take away this year, and there's nothing left) exactly that.

Ullrich was one of the absolute best in his field. As is Rodriguez. Both of them had trouble winning, partly because of exceptional competition (one guy for Ullrich, an other stronger guy every year for Purito)

Fair enough. Although I think you are being slightly harsh on Evans. From 2007-2011 I think he was a first tier rider - certainly on a par with what Purito has been in the last few years (although you could argue there wasn't great competition during this time). He won the UCI Pro Tour and Fleche Wallonne as well as the World Champs and TdF and finished on a GT podium nearly every year, so was consistently doing well.

 

[del1962]

I definitely think that Evans palmares are as good as if not better than Purito's.

 

[trevim]

I definitely think that Evans palmares are as good as if not better than Purito's.

As good? Evans's is definitely better.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I actually can't believe that people are arguing Simon freaking Gerrans is as good as Cadel Evans. He can win the Worlds, he still won't be in Evans' league. This is not about the Tour > everything else. This is about their qualities as riders. Gerrans has won two monuments, one by sucking wheel for 15km and one because other riders raced embarrassingly timidly. Evans may not have won any monuments, but he won the Worlds by being the best on the day and finishing on his own a minute ahead of anybody else. Evans nearly missed out on the palmarès his talent deserved due to his conservative racing - ironically it's the fact that there are lots of riders doing that conservative racing style right now that is allowing Gerrans to accumulate a palmarès that he really shouldn't have, and wouldn't if other riders weren't such cowards. If you asked me to name the top 50 best riders in the péloton right now I would not mention Simon Gerrans, and might not even consider him, and this is a guy who's won two monuments.

Simon Gerrans is like what would happen if you took out all of the interesting parts of Alejandro Valverde and made him more characterless. Evans is the superior cyclist, and always will be.

 

[Stromeon]

Simon Gerrans is like what would happen if you took out all of the interesting parts of Alejandro Valverde and made him more characterless.

Haha this sums him up perfectly

 

[thrawn]

This thread should have been called 'Is Simon Gerrans the greatest ever overachiever in Australian road cycling'.

Evans takes the greatest roadie title by some distance,two monuments,some nice one day races and some GT stage wins don't equal Le Tour and Worlds RR.

Surely Evans is one of Australia's greatest ever SPORTSMEN never mind roadie,up there with Ian Thorpe,Laver,Adam Scott and Don Bradman.Just my opinion.

I think Adam Scott & Cadel are well behind the Thorpe's, Laver's & Bradman's. Class sportsmen in their own right, but with those 3, not even in the conversation.

 

[Angliru]

Can anyone disagree with that?

I can. I have an issue with a rider being labeled a "fail" because he simply isn't as prolific in a particular aspect of his profession as some of his rivals.
He's come close and made the podium before but just hasn't been able to pull it out. I'd even prefer he be given the title that they gave to Poulidor when he kept coming 2nd or 3rd year after year. Are those hilly classic/grand tour rivals that have a lesser record in the classics than Purito also in a similar category of "fail" as you claim?

As you know, Purito was a loyal domestique for the early to mid point of his career, showing great potential in that role. After leaving Caise d'Epargne/Illes Balears for Katusha, he really showed that he was one of the sport's elite riders. Having to rely entirely upon his climbing prowess and ability to sprint at end of steep and mountain top finishes his chances for success in the grand tours is limited by the amount of itt km's there are in the event. Yes he was beaten by Hesjadal and Contador when victory seemed a certainty. That is balanced by his consistent podium finishes in grand tours and by his record in the hilly classics.

I guess I like to look at the positives in his career and not the negatives.

 

[DFA123]

Simon Gerrans is like what would happen if you took out all of the interesting parts of Alejandro Valverde and made him more characterless.

Lol - this is the perfect description

 

[Archibald]

a sprint is not selective. Without his teams help to compose a sprint, Cav and Mcewen would never have won.

Did you even see McEwen sprinting? He was the king of solo sprinting, without team support. I'll never forget that epic TdF win in Canterbury, but there's plenty of examples.

beat me to the response on McEwen's ability to solo his sprint wins (always seemed to appear from nowhere) - right up until you mentioned Canterbury where his team paced him back to the peloton completely negating your point

 

[movingtarget]

Gerrans doen't even come close to McEwen, who really dominated his field for a while.

Gerrans is indeed in line with Evans and Anderson: second tier riders at their field, that managed to get some really nice wins, although those were clearly outliers.

How many classics did McEwen win ? None. For a guy who could win stages in any grand tour McEwen underachieved in the classics. I think he was on the podium at the Worlds as well. Anderson was versatile but his best win was at the Amstel Gold and a fifth in the Tour. Not comparable to Evans. Anderson was a very good rider but did not have the wins that Gerrans had. He was really a top 10 GC rider who could do well in classics and win stages.

 

[movingtarget]

Did you even see McEwen sprinting? He was the king of solo sprinting, without team support. I'll never forget that epic TdF win in Canterbury, but there's plenty of examples.


He's not the greatest of his time, although far better than Gerrans of course. Purito has better and more wins, and is regarded a first tier rider most of his career.

McEwen was an incredible rider in a bunch finish and one of the best bike handlers I have ever seen. Then again Evans is no slouch either in that department.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

beat me to the response on McEwen's ability to solo his sprint wins (always seemed to appear from nowhere) - right up until you mentioned Canterbury where his team paced him back to the peloton completely negating your point

OK, My memory might be a bit clouded. If I remember correctly, his team might have brought him back, but for sure he had 0.0 lead out?

EDIT: I watched it again, and I did remember it correctly: perfect lead outs of both Quick Step and Milram, and the only Lotto guy to be seen at 1km from the line somewhere around spot 40. Only Lotto guy at 200m from the line, somewhere around 20th. Only lotto guy at the line? Robbie, who just passed them all.
He had not even 1 team mate to help him there (since they used all their powers to bring him back to the midddle of the peloton), while all the other teams (except for T-Mobile, who were lacking Cav) were at full strength.

One of the most impressive solo sprints I've witnessed.

 

[SeriousSam]

Simon Gerrans is like what would happen if you took out all of the interesting parts of Alejandro Valverde and made him more characterless.

That's a bit unfair to Valverde.