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rgmerk said:
9000ft said:Is the NFL and it's fans naive? No, they just don't give a s**t. It's all about the show. Give the fans what they want.
Altitude said:Yeah, but don't you find the article to be slightly insulting?
9000ft said:Insulting? Why? If I had a magic wand that made all desire to gain every edge in competition and made the love of pure holy competition universal I would. I don't though. Fans, including cycling fans want super human performance. When that isn't achieved those who fall short are derided for their shortcomings and discarded. It's a tough, brutal racket.
Most sports fans just want the spectacle and don't care that much about PEDs. Many more cycling fans seem to want the spectacle, the super human performance but wrap themselves in self righteous indignation that in order to give them what hey want, the athletes can't do it on bread water and good clean living.
9000ft said:Insulting? Why? If I had a magic wand that made all desire to gain every edge in competition and made the love of pure holy competition universal I would. I don't though. Fans, including cycling fans want super human performance. When that isn't achieved those who fall short are derided for their shortcomings and discarded. It's a tough, brutal racket.
Most sports fans just want the spectacle and don't care that much about PEDs. Many more cycling fans seem to want the spectacle, the super human performance but wrap themselves in self righteous indignation that in order to give them what hey want, the athletes can't do it on bread water and good clean living.
fatandfast said:The articles about NFL wives/families of ex-players trying to provide long term care for those NFL alumni that are so damaged that they can't function is heartbreaking. They can't get money from anybody else so they use the workman's comp laws to sue for damages for work related injuries. The NFL spends 10's of millions keeping these stories out of the news by paying the player/family lump sums under the condition that they not discuss the suit or anything else.
If the average fan was exposed to a where are they now segment of lots of NFL players the opinions on PED use as standard practice may change rapidly.
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ChrisE said:And who's fault is that? NFL players make 1000's times as much money as the avg American, and instead of planning for the future they blow all of that money real time on houses/cars/"bling"/hangers ons, etc.
It is sad on the surface, but they had the ability to plan for the potential of having to have long term care. Also, they had the free will to choose another profession. Somebody that goes into a profession knowing what they are doing to themselves, and suffer long term damage they refused to plan for, is not a "victim".
fatandfast said:I will allow you to be right, yes a 22 year old black kid with little to no education( yes w the 4 years of college) should have known to feather his nest, lets say fully vested by 25. He should have know that the job he had for 3 years would make his brain and body not function at 55. After all ,the surrounding coaches, agents, trainers and doctors should have been looked at as liars with his worldly 22 year old eyes. WW2 vets that were exposed to asbestos should have known better? After all most were adults of 18 or so..
I was not asking you to pity them and all the cash they got that put to use should be able to overcome any obstacle later in life. As everybody else in a way less rewarding and risky job watches their 401k crumble, your logic will be repeated from now on. Add school teachers to the bike racer and football player list of people that should know better.
Playing in the NFL for a few years in your view is so rewarding that the unknown medical conditions later on is a wash. Each time I ever start to think like this I watch Hoop Dreams and watch the people with all their good intentions.
ChrisE said:Hi strawman.
Yes, lump teachers and others that make millions of dollars while taking PEDs into your victim pile. It is so similar.
Unknown medical conditions? lol, how many times does it have to happen to where we can move these "unknown conditions later in life due to being a victim" to the "hey dumbazz, you should've chosen to go into another profession but since you didn't, and you didn't prepare for the well known results of that decison, you are a dumbazz" category, ie "look in the mirror" category.
Of course, how can I be so insensitive? The 22 year old that was offered a free education (while I am currently saving $100k so my daughter can have what he got for free) he didn't take advantage of, to use when he got out of football. Instead, they are 25 and broke after blowing their signing bonuses and salary over those 3 years on important stuff like cars and jewelry.
It is a good thing you "allow me to be right" lol. I will return the favor...I will allow you to be a bleeding heart believing in zero accountability victimhood as a result of freely made bad decisions. I sleep well at night, thank you. I am sure you do as well.
fatandfast said:So I will will wear the strawman hat while you wear the restart history every 5 or 10 years. When most of the 50 and 60 year old NFL players got drafted they didn't make mounds of money. When most of my family went to school they did it using cash from part time jobs, but some savings from the family was needed. The perverse combining of today with 40 years ago is where we are, all the people feeling that athletes are spoiled snobs, while in reality nobody cares if they get a credit hour in school. Dozens of people and systems in place to have pretend student athletes. They are athletes but hardly students. I remember reading Rosie Grier talking about how some of his fellow players could not read or write, even after attending college. They struggled with it, but the support cast in place assured them that football would be all they need. All your eggs in the athlete basket doesn't work out to often. I admire people like yourself that save the money for your kids. The issues are hardly the same. The numbers of athletes who get a full ride is tiny compared to the paying student body. The money they don't pay is a drop in the bucket.
9000ft said:Insulting? Why? If I had a magic wand that made all desire to gain every edge in competition and made the love of pure holy competition universal I would. I don't though. Fans, including cycling fans want super human performance. When that isn't achieved those who fall short are derided for their shortcomings and discarded. It's a tough, brutal racket.
Most sports fans just want the spectacle and don't care that much about PEDs. Many more cycling fans seem to want the spectacle, the super human performance but wrap themselves in self righteous indignation that in order to give them what hey want, the athletes can't do it on bread water and good clean living.
Dr. Maserati said:There is little spectacle in "super human performances" - people prefer human performance.
ChrisE said:You keep telling youself that. It helps fuel your little crusade.
Oh yeah, also tell the 80k packed in each NFL stadium this weekend and the millions watching on TV they don't prefer what they are watching. Doubtful the majority of those people don't know the players are on PEDs.
As smart as you are, can't you develop some type of email spam to every email address in the world and tell them to stop watching the NFL because they don't prefer it?
9000ft said:Insulting? Why? If I had a magic wand that made all desire to gain every edge in competition and made the love of pure holy competition universal I would. I don't though. Fans, including cycling fans want super human performance. When that isn't achieved those who fall short are derided for their shortcomings and discarded. It's a tough, brutal racket.
Most sports fans just want the spectacle and don't care that much about PEDs. Many more cycling fans seem to want the spectacle, the super human performance but wrap themselves in self righteous indignation that in order to give them what hey want, the athletes can't do it on bread water and good clean living.
Altitude said:Insulting because the writer of the article expects people to believe whatever he says. I don't see how the rest of your post is relevant.
Dr. Maserati said:There is little spectacle in "super human performances" - people prefer human performance.
9000ft said:Expects? I think a reader of anything is free to judge for themselves.
ChrisE said:Bingo, nail meet hammer. Nice post.
The self-righteous in here seem to think their little war is shared by more than their little hissy fit throwing crowd. Most of the people don't care if professionals use dope.
Again, none of that is "super-human".9000ft said:Can't say I agree with you Doc. People want to see slam dunks from the foul line, wide receivers jumping over the top of corner backs in the end zone for the diving catch, hits that rattle the glass on the stadium lights. One more world record. The bar is always moving upward, nobody, or at least very few want to see it moved down.
Again - "attack after attack" is not superhuman - go to a local underage race if you don't believe me.9000ft said:Look at the CN forum. The fans want attack after attack. If someone is labeled "boring" or a "wheel sucker", or "lacks panache", then they are a looser and worthy of if not contempt, then at least derision.
Difficult to argue against a made up hypothetical - "people" want their favorite to win. The hows are secondary.9000ft said:People may say they don't want their favorite pro athlete performers (and that's what they are, performers) to be physical freaks, or dopers, but what they want even less is for them to be normal.
Sport fandom doesn't often bring out the best in people.
ChrisE said:You keep telling youself that. It helps fuel your little crusade.
Oh yeah, also tell the 80k packed in each NFL stadium this weekend and the millions watching on TV they don't prefer what they are watching. Doubtful the majority of those people don't know the players are on PEDs.
As smart as you are, can't you develop some type of email spam to every email address in the world and tell them to stop watching the NFL because they don't prefer it?
ChrisE said:You keep telling youself that. It helps fuel your little crusade.
Oh yeah, also tell the 80k packed in each NFL stadium this weekend and the millions watching on TV they don't prefer what they are watching. Doubtful the majority of those people don't know the players are on PEDs.
As smart as you are, can't you develop some type of email spam to every email address in the world and tell them to stop watching the NFL because they don't prefer it?