Is the mass exodus from Columbia due to Cavs potty mouth?

[thehog]

A lot of riders are leaving Columbia? Why? Has Cav completely p)ssed everyone off including his team-mates? Going to be hard pushed to win in 10 with a weakened leadout train. Thoughts? Discuss.

 

[Kazistuta]

A normal way to start a discussion would be for the topic starter to air out his/her own opinions....Just saying...

My cents:

Success breads money demands. Easier to attract newcomers. All teams experience arrivals/departures, THR doesn't seem particularly unique in that area.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Is there any reason to believe that he has made his teammates angry at him, or are you just trolling?

Various team management have said it was a question of money, that so many are leaving.

Susan

 

[badboyberty]

I'd assume there is also a question of opportunities. When most of the Columbia squd signed up they joined a team that needed leaders and every rider had a chance to stamp their claim on the team. Look at the '08 Tour squad, geared to win stages but with no clear focus.

Cavendish's total sprint domination has changed that and Columbia have became the sprint team. Now anyone other than Cavendish who aspires to have a team work for them in a Grand Tour (or even make it to le Tour) might think joining a team that's desperate for wins is a better idea than staying at Columbia. Yeah, riders are leaving Columbia because of Cavendish, but not to get away from his mouth (potty or otherwise), just to get out of his rapidly expanding shadow.

 

[lanternrouge]

As the entire team including riders going for GC or jerseys seem to be more than willing to ride themselves into the ground for Cav I hardly think he is unpopular. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Buninyong Bunny]

We may also want to note that Columbia have taken in quite a lot of very young riders, so older riders are automatially going to be pushed out in that process.

 

[Animal]

What "potty mouth"? Sounds like a prissy yank talking to me.

 

[fatandfast]

Winning every month and congrads for all involved after his success, Being marked so that his teammates get wins and lots of press, is potty mouth?, everybody around him is lifted higher. I am sure his potty mouth would be welcomed almost anywhere. In 4 or 5 years Cav will be more than a sprinter until then he is a weapon that any team will deal with. I think the guy is pretty balanced given his results the last two years.

 

[workingclasshero]

Is there any reason to believe that he has made his teammates angry at him, or are you just trolling?

Various team management have said it was a question of money, that so many are leaving.

Susan

wtf. THIS is trolling that makes you react? every man and his effing dog knows that cavendish is hard work.

so thehog raises a valid topic, can cavendish's personality be something that drives people away.

 

[pedaling squares]

Everything I've seen out of Columbia this year suggests that they are a very tight team. They appear to get along and ride for one another. As another wrote, success breeds offers from competitors seeking to add the missing ingredients to their squads. Competition inflates salaries; it is impossible to retain everyone. Also, some riders may be offered roles on other teams that they could not play at Columbia.

 

[Fragrant Harbourer]

There are definately some very good riders leaving Columbia, but leaving because of the Mouthy Scouser? No. His star is beyond a shadow of a doubt brighter than any of those leaving and Columbia aint going out of their way to keep these guys particualrly when you consider who long ago the inbound transfers were anounced . I reckon there would have been a few High Roaders looking about thinking whose contracts were not getting renewed.

And as to lack of a leadout train, his main lead out man is still there, Mark Renshaw. And besides, his best win of the season at Milan-San Remo came without a leadout train, although Hincapie did a great job of getting over the hills.

 

[thehog]

Is there any reason to believe that he has made his teammates angry at him, or are you just trolling?

Various team management have said it was a question of money, that so many are leaving.

Susan

Sorry. Me wrong. Should have made this a thread about Armstrong.

Cav is hard work we all know that. Was just raising the topic because there are a lot riders leaving. Like a lot.

 

[craig1985]

The riders are only going to follow where the $$$$ are and the opportunities, especially those who have proven that they are worth it. Plus signing talented young riders is a lot cheaper then what they would have to pay EBH or Kirchin.

 

[usedtobefast]

What "potty mouth"? Sounds like a prissy yank talking to me.

a prissy yankee team...

 

[ingsve]

Another factor in the Cav dominance is the almost total focus on him. Even in the Giro when both Rogers and Lövkvist were still high in the GC the team had them both riding leadout for Cav instead of just sitting safely back conserving energy. It's a little disrespectful at times it seems to me.

 

[Big_Blue_Dave]

There are definately some very good riders leaving Columbia, but leaving because of the Mouthy Scouser? No. His star is beyond a shadow of a doubt brighter than any of those leaving and Columbia aint going out of their way to keep these guys particualrly when you consider who long ago the inbound transfers were anounced . I reckon there would have been a few High Roaders looking about thinking whose contracts were not getting renewed.

And as to lack of a leadout train, his main lead out man is still there, Mark Renshaw. And besides, his best win of the season at Milan-San Remo came without a leadout train, although Hincapie did a great job of getting over the hills.

Now I know Scots get annoyed being called English, but Cavendish a Scouser? If so, i'm calling Millar a Brummie, and Cadel Evans a Kiwi, maybe i'll even say Lance Armstrong is Canadian.

Cav is a Manxman, which provides a good alliterative text for your mouthy friend there. But, on the other points you are right, except his lead out train was much more than Mark Renshaw, he tends to have 5 or 6 set him up for the final 5km or 6km depending on the run-in. Though as you mentioned MSR was done without the train and I think that performance gave too many teams and sprinters a knock in confidence as he showed the cycling world he can also do it when the course is a little tougher than a pan-flat last 20km.

The whole success of the team is bred through the confidence and camaraderie the team generate together, and this makes the riders desirable. But, as has been seen in the past, when riders move they don't necessarily go on to perform as well as before. So it remains to be seen how the movers do. Also, who team Columbia bring in will be interesting and what roles they all play within the team. Seeing as Joaquin Rodriguez is leaving Caisse D'Epargne he would be a good acquisition who could really benefit from the teams philosophy.

 

[craig1985]

Rodriguez is joining Katusha IIRC.

 

[workingclasshero]

Now I know Scots get annoyed being called English, but Cavendish a Scouser? If so, i'm calling Millar a Brummie, and Cadel Evans a Kiwi, maybe i'll even say Lance Armstrong is Canadian.

Cav is a Manxman, which provides a good alliterative text for your mouthy friend there. But, on the other points you are right, except his lead out train was much more than Mark Renshaw, he tends to have 5 or 6 set him up for the final 5km or 6km depending on the run-in. Though as you mentioned MSR was done without the train and I think that performance gave too many teams and sprinters a knock in confidence as he showed the cycling world he can also do it when the course is a little tougher than a pan-flat last 20km.

The whole success of the team is bred through the confidence and camaraderie the team generate together, and this makes the riders desirable. But, as has been seen in the past, when riders move they don't necessarily go on to perform as well as before. So it remains to be seen how the movers do. Also, who team Columbia bring in will be interesting and what roles they all play within the team. Seeing as Joaquin Rodriguez is leaving Caisse D'Epargne he would be a good acquisition who could really benefit from the teams philosophy.

people from isle of man tend to speak with that (imo ) horrible accent

 

[ingsve]

The only big part of the train that he's losing is Hincapie and ten alos EBH and Burghardt as smaller parts but those parts of the train can easily be replaced. People like Rogers and Martin that have both been in the train are still there and a new guy like Peter Velits can also fit into the train without a problem. I'm sure there are others of the new recruits that can also fit well in the lead out. He won't have any problems in that area I think.

 

[Tugboat]

With Velits and Roulston coming in the train will be as strong as it is today.

 

[42x16ss]

If riders are leaving Columbia, could it be the team not wanting to pay the wages for so many strong and recognised riders?

I'd imagine that the wages for their high profile guys such as Cav, Renshaw, Hincapie, Rogers, Kirchen, Lokvist and Grabsch would be a hefty slice of the teams budget! It would make sense to me to replace older domestiques and fringe riders with a few young blokes with potential when you consider the depth of the columbia squad.

 

[Belokki]

The riders are only going to follow where the $$$$ are and the opportunities, especially those who have proven that they are worth it. Plus signing talented young riders is a lot cheaper then what they would have to pay EBH or Kirchin.

So you think EBH is not a talented young rider?

 

[samb01]

Badboybertie is spot on. Cavendish is a resource hog, and there is absolutely no reason a rider like EBH should go to the TdF (which he intends to next year) primarily to lead out another rider, no matter who it is.

This is almost certainly the primary reason Boasson is leaving, as Stapleton indicated that Columbia were willing to pay him a competitive salary and give him the support he needs (for the spring classics I assume), and Valerio Piva recently said that of those leaving, only Boasson is irreplaceable.

 

[hayleyy]

Now I know Scots get annoyed being called English, but Cavendish a Scouser? If so, i'm calling Millar a Brummie, and Cadel Evans a Kiwi, maybe i'll even say Lance Armstrong is Canadian.

We only call Cadel a Kiwi when his performance is terrible. When hes riding well, he's and Aussie

 

[42x16ss]

Just out of curiousity, how much longer do Rogers, Martin and Kirchen have left with Columbia? If any of these guys are going to fulfill their GC potential in longer races they won't be able to do it on a team where they are part of the leadout train for a sprinter, no matter how good he is.

A good example of this is Rogers tiring towards the end of the Giro this year after doing a fair share of work for Cavendish. If a team has serious GC aspirations for a rider you'd think they would spare that rider from hard work on the front... especially if they want to keep him.