Is there a doctor in the Team.....

[sniper]

I am pretty aware of Rabo discussions and you have to be blind to miss the sky threads here, so my examples were perhaps not well chosen. So how about this, anything similar to this article out there for the likes of Europcar (i know that there is a thread or 2 around voeckler et al), fdj, etc.
I am looking for someone knowledgeable who looked into soigneur / medical staff with dodgy links.

No need to be patronising

I'm far from knowledgeable, but I did open some threads on (former) Garmin doctors San Millán (very dodgy by association, but vaughters was very vocal and determined in defending him) and Gonzalez Haro (phlebotomist, former Spanish Olympic Fed, and ex-Real Madrid) as well as Garmin DS Weltz (unrepentant PED provider, called "drug cheat" even by his own colleague Prentice Steffen).

San Millan:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18395&highlight=mill%E1n
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18343&highlight=mill%E1n
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18342&highlight=mill%E1n

Gonzalez Haro:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18369&highlight=phlebotomists

Weltz:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18455&highlight=weltz
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18470&highlight=weltz

You'll also find threads on Allen Lim probably (not sure), but the search engine doesn't allow "lim" as seach word (too short).

 

[King Boonen]

To the OP, thank you. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I like to find when I come in the clinic, not all the *****ing and arguing that usually ends up with two people abusing each other.


It's obvious why any professional sports team would want a doctor on board, for non-doping reasons, but this list just highlights the fact that these doctors need much better regulation. I would suggest a WADA accreditation should be made available to doctors who want to work in sport, with them adhering to the WADA code and getting punishments in line with athletes (along with any professional sanctions from relevant medical bodies), and teams should be forced to hire doctors with this accreditation.

 

[Roude Leiw]

To the OP, thank you. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I like to find when I come in the clinic, not all the *****ing and arguing that usually ends up with two people abusing each .

Well said, i second that

 

[coinneach]

To the OP, thank you. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I like to find when I come in the clinic, not all the *****ing and arguing that usually ends up with two people abusing each other.


It's obvious why any professional sports team would want a doctor on board, for non-doping reasons, but this list just highlights the fact that these doctors need much better regulation. I would suggest a WADA accreditation should be made available to doctors who want to work in sport, with them adhering to the WADA code and getting punishments in line with athletes (along with any professional sanctions from relevant medical bodies), and teams should be forced to hire doctors with this accreditation.

I totally agree with this post, and think we should have it in the manifesto for clean cycling now.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I totally agree with this post, and think we should have it in the manifesto for clean cycling now.

WADA can and does already ban non-athlete staff. One of the many problems is the ability to open a case remains with the sports federations who aren't interested in slowing down the show.

 

[skippy]

Hope i do not appear to be fawning on " dirty Works "when i applaud the other commenters on their call for MORE Regulation of the Team Doctors !
At the Grand Tours i see MANY professional Health workers working for the Tour Organiser . They are hardly overworked , but they should be the ONLY Health Workers , available to the Racers .
By doing this , ALL Racers will be given the HELP they need , purely at Random , even if the Tour Organiser has to provide a Tour Doctor to EACH Hotel that a team is assigned !

This business of each Team having several " Doctors " , tripping over each other , has reached the point of a FARCE ! Racers that have health issues , should not be racing , since they are so close to the edge of good health , with their exertions ?

 

[Microchip]

Hadnt even heard of half the guys on that list. So Pantanis former doctor is now working with Sagan? thats not a good sign.

Step 1 to clean up cycling should be to ban teams from hiring doctors.

It wouldn't stop them from working with each other.

 

[Cloxxki]

Amazing huh, the peloton is like a medical convention. In all of my modest cycling career (frustrating some pro's in the off-season, and being lapped dizzy in-season) I never needed a doctor, or even received a single massage.
Prepare like an amateur, perform like an amateur?

 

[zigmeister]

BMC seem well stocked with dodgy docs. Add that to the BMC soigneur caught with lots dope, it makes it hard to think Evans won the TdF clean.

From the 2010 leaked bio passport list for the TDF, Evans was categorized with Armstrong, amongst others as a 4 suspicion. 10 is the hghet of course.

Tygart claims Armstrong was flaming doping positive the last two years of TDf competition.

So, Evans doped? Maybe.

 

[zigmeister]

The problem is, go find an experienced "sports" doctor. Ask your local general practitioner about anything sports , or even sports related. Blank stares is all you get.

I was struggling with knee troubles for awhile, went to a an NFL ortho specialist and did some evaluation regarding cycling related problems.

His ultimate advice, just rest, ice it and take naproxim sodium (Alleve). No clue and understanding of the issues related cycling. Football, injuries related to such, no problem. Waste of money and time.

Now imagine teams with millions riding on these cyclist and protecting their health. Forget the doping aspect, just find someone you trust. So it becomes a closed loop of specialist over time and word of mouth the system.

So the dichotomy of finding someone who wasnt somehow, even remotely, associated with cycling doping due to the rampant nautre of it the past ten years, anf finding a doctor who actually knows WTF they are talking about and you can trust is the problem.

Innuendo by taking someones temperature is often the case with most of these people.

 

[Granville57]

The problem is, go find an experienced "sports" doctor. Ask your local general practitioner about anything sports , or even sports related. Blank stares is all you get.

But according to Brailsford, they weren't looking for a "sports" doctor as much as someone well versed in viral infections and the effects of extreme heat during physically demanding conditions.

Brailsford did decide the team should hire British medical staff who had not worked inside professional cycling before.

However, the harrowing experience at the 2010 Vuelta a Espana led to a rethink of that medical policy.

Txema Gonzalez, one of the team’s carers, contracted a bacterial infection which entered the bloodstream. The toxins damaged his organs and he went into septic shock. The Spaniard, who was 43, died in hospital.

At the same time, the riders were struck with a stomach bug. In heat approaching 40 degrees, some of them were vomiting on the road. For a worrying 12-hour period they thought they had the same virus as Gonzalez. Team Sky’s Dr Steve Peters, the head of the medical operation at the time, confirmed that the bacterial infection that killed Gonzalez was nothing to do with the virus that affected the riders.

When Gonzalez was taken to hospital, Brailsford and another of Team Sky’s doctors, Dr Richard Freeman, flew from Liverpool to Spain. When they landed, Brailsford switched on his phone to the news Gonzalez had died.

“When someone dies on your team and you feel you’re putting riders at risk… for all we knew the riders could have had the same thing.

“We sat down and realised that as a group of people we did not know enough about looking after people in extreme heat, with extreme fatigue. We were making calls like ‘no, on you go mate’.”

"No, on you go mate" ?!?! What is this, 1972?

I wonder if they ever contacted any true medical professionals with current or former military experience? I'd be willing to be there's more than a few British docs from Special Forces that know a thing or two about extreme conditions and how the human body reacts.

But hey, that's just me with about 2 seconds of time to think about it.
I'm sure Brailsford is much, much smarter than I am.

 

[mewmewmew13]

But according to Brailsford, they weren't looking for a "sports" doctor as much as someone well versed in viral infections and the effects of extreme heat during physically demanding conditions.


"No, on you go mate" ?!?! What is this, 1972?

I wonder if they ever contacted any true medical professionals with current or former military experience? I'd be willing to be there's more than a few British docs from Special Forces that know a thing or two about extreme conditions and how the human body reacts.

But hey, that's just me with about 2 seconds of time to think about it.
I'm sure Brailsford is much, much smarter than I am.

They needed a doctor to make decisions for heat/fatigue like Radioshack needed a doc to make expert decisions w/r to racing with a concussion..

 

[TheGame]

Dimspace should at least be man enough to credit where he copy translated this from.

All copy past from this site:
http://www.dopingzaak.nl/blog/2012/04/11/emilio-magni/

Dimspace did address this on twitter. The basis of the article is from last year on his forum, he posted a bunch of links to stuff on various forums I think that showed his stuff everywhere, English wording of Zaak's stuff, some of it earlier than Zaak's articles, some of it before his original list of "dodgy team staff". I guess on little known doctors, stuff gets translated, copy pasted all over. But there's a lot on Zaak's site that is'nt in his article that I would think he would have included, and a lot in his article that isnt on Zaak's site.

 

[TheGame]

On the OP, all the doctor's should just be fired.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

But according to Brailsford, they weren't looking for a "sports" doctor as much as someone well versed in viral infections and the effects of extreme heat during physically demanding conditions.


"No, on you go mate" ?!?! What is this, 1972?

I wonder if they ever contacted any true medical professionals with current or former military experience? I'd be willing to be there's more than a few British docs from Special Forces that know a thing or two about extreme conditions and how the human body reacts.

But hey, that's just me with about 2 seconds of time to think about it.
I'm sure Brailsford is much, much smarter than I am.

Granted, the events are shorter and the velodromes indoors, but trackies still do a tonne of miles and are just as likely to develop similar problems as roadies. But they have no experience dealing with these problems.

 

[Benotti69]

The problem is, go find an experienced "sports" doctor. Ask your local general practitioner about anything sports , or even sports related. Blank stares is all you get.

I was struggling with knee troubles for awhile, went to a an NFL ortho specialist and did some evaluation regarding cycling related problems.

His ultimate advice, just rest, ice it and take naproxim sodium (Alleve). No clue and understanding of the issues related cycling. Football, injuries related to such, no problem. Waste of money and time.

Now imagine teams with millions riding on these cyclist and protecting their health. Forget the doping aspect, just find someone you trust. So it becomes a closed loop of specialist over time and word of mouth the system.

So the dichotomy of finding someone who wasnt somehow, even remotely, associated with cycling doping due to the rampant nautre of it the past ten years, anf finding a doctor who actually knows WTF they are talking about and you can trust is the problem.

Innuendo by taking someones temperature is often the case with most of these people.

The teams acutally dont give a fig about fans never have never will. Most teams dont even bother with an anti doping statement. They dont care.

These docs do the team merry go round over their careers.

 

[peace in middle east]

Jan Mathieu with a strong rebuttal of accusations:

"I do not understand the fuss”

 

[masking_agent]

its just a turn over of newer and better ways of doping. Our sport will never be clean. The shroud of secrecy was opened for a while, but i think its business as usual now

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Why not make TUE's public domain? Would be nice for Unibet and stuff. So we can bet who put up the most 'streepjes'.

 

[sniper]

Whatever happened to José Aramendi?
With ONCE in the late 90s, named by Zülle as a doping administrator. (see e.g. here)
Then with USPS and mentioned in relation to the Armstrong case when the Floyd emails broke, sometimes in one breath with Del Moral, but his name didn't end up in the final USADA file. (e.g here)
He's also frequently mentioned in German press as a regular visitor and 'student' of the Freiburg clinic in the mid-2000s. (e.g. here)
And I'm reading somewhere he was with Discovery in 2007.
Anybody know if he's still in the game?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Bump:

He is into another game it seems

http://www.gipuzkoabasket.com/equipo/aramendi_es.php

And, not very good at it looks like...

 

[blackcat]

Re:

I found this one particularly interesting, as Greenedge directly and indirectly relate to many of the new age teams/riders out there.

Manuel Rodriguez Alonso – Orica GreenEDGE

Manuel Rodriguez has been around a bit: doctor for the Spanish Olympic committee from 1996 to 2004, and Team Doctor at ONCE, Mapei (with Testa and Ruffini), and Quick Step. He even did a three-year spell at Real Madrid as their professor of nutrition counseling and sports performance. Former pro Patrick Sinkewitz explicitly named Rodriguez as administering doping products at QuickStep.

Doesn't reflect well on the close collaboration (including the interchange of staff) between Garmin and Orica. Plus, he has almost the same profile as certain Garmin doctors.

put that down to Neil Stephens and him being dialed in to Spanish cycling and all that entails...