Is UAE Over the Top?

[Red Rick]

"He beat X" really doesn't say anything without knowing how good was the one beaten. Jonas himself was faster 2023 behind Roglič than this time. Roglič was faster than both Jonas and Almeida.

So is Almeida really that improved? Or has he just gone to races with lower fields and beat a Jonas on a decline?

Both narratives seems to make sense on the surface.

If they had the weather conditions and the pacing on the easy section like in 2025, Roglic and Vingegaard would have both gone faster than this year. Plus riders got generally faster between 2023 and 2025.

Climbing time isn't as important as the gaps behind, and 30 seconds to Kuss and Hindley is not extraterrestrial. Almeida is good, but I don't think he's made the level of improvement many claim that he has.

 

[Rou]

Climbing time isn't as important as the gaps behind, and 30 seconds to Kuss and Hindley is not extraterrestrial. Almeida is good, but I don't think he's made the level of improvement many claim that he has.

Angliru usually doesn't provide big gaps.
But the same Almeida rode both Hindley and Kuss off his wheel on Valdezcaray and put 1:20 on them.
Let's wait for Morredero because I see Almeida putting 60-90 secs on Hindley there and then we would be having a different conversation.

 

[AlpRaid]

I had no idea actually that Matxin goes back to Cobo:

"“That wasn’t the original plan. The idea was to keep Visma out of the break, and following Campenaerts was key. If Joao had dropped Vingegaard, don’t doubt for a second we’d have called Soler back. It’s happened before — in 2011, I had to stop De la Fuente to help Cobo win.”

The completely unapologetic way he uses Cobo as a reference to "legitimize" something and speaks of "winning" with him, when everyone knows he was blood-doped to the gills.

How can anyone have confidence in anything UAE does?

Also, it does appear that Pog is not the only beneficiary of whatever happened between 2023 and 2024. The entire team made a jump.

 

[Ripper]

I had no idea actually that Matxin goes back to Cobo:

"“That wasn’t the original plan. The idea was to keep Visma out of the break, and following Campenaerts was key. If Joao had dropped Vingegaard, don’t doubt for a second we’d have called Soler back. It’s happened before — in 2011, I had to stop De la Fuente to help Cobo win.”

The completely unapologetic way he uses Cobo as a reference to "legitimize" something and speaks of "winning" with him, when everyone knows he was blood-doped to the gills.

How can anyone have confidence in anything UAE does?

Also, it does appear that Pog is not the only beneficiary of whatever happened between 2023 and 2024. The entire team made a jump.

Well, that's the thing about UAE, isn't it? Matxin and Gianetti are unapologetic because they don't think they've done anything wrong. Sure, they had some 'bad eggs, but who hadn't (lol x 1000)

I mean, who knows if the same riders would be doing as well on other teams (i.e. if UAE had never existed)? But I just cannot get on board with the characters running or heavily involved with that team.

Perhaps Johan and Lance can make a comeback?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

When was the last time a team won stages with 4 different riders in a Grand Tour? I know it was brought up for the 2022 and 2012 Tour but they only did it with 3 riders.

Three is a lot more common than you think. If we get technical, HTC won with Cav, EBH and Kanstantsin Siutsou in the 2009 Giro as well as winning the TTT. Impressively Cervélo also managed 3 different stage winners in that race (Sastre, Konovalovas and Gerrans). Hell, Movistar managed it at the 2013 Giro with Dowsett, Intxausti and Visconti and nobody's going to claim they were dominant there! CSC managed 3 at the 2008 Tour (Cancellara, Arvesen and of course Sastre), with their successors, Saxo Bank, repeating the feat in 2009 (Cancellara, Nicki Sørensen and Fränk Schleck). There's also Astana at the 2006 Vuelta (Paulinho, Vino and Kashechkin), Caisse d'Épargne at the 2008 one (Valverde, Erviti and Arroyo), Garmin in 2009 (Hesjedal, Millar and Farrar), Quick Step in 2016 (Brambilla, Meersman, de la Cruz)...

 

[noob]

Also, it does appear that Pog is not the only beneficiary of whatever happened between 2023 and 2024. The entire team made a jump.

This!

 

[AlpRaid]

Vine...?

Seriously!?

On par with TopGanna on a pan flat TT.

The water is powerful over at UAE.

If he can rival TopGanna on pan flat, are we then looking at the next ITT World Champ, since he will presumably benefit from the hilly course.

Just goes to show it is the entire team that has had a jump.

 

[AlpRaid]

World Champs road race Top 5 (all different countries but all UAE):

1. Pog
2. DelToro (st)
3. Ayuso @ 2 mins
4. Vine @ 3 mins
5. Almeida @ 4 mins
6. Remco @ 12 mins

 

[Danskebjerge]

Also, it does appear that Pog is not the only beneficiary of whatever happened between 2023 and 2024. The entire team made a jump.

Except Bjerg who has been consistent as a rock since he turned 20.

 

[noob]

World Champs road race Top 5 (all different countries but all UAE):

1. Pog
2. DelToro (st)
3. Ayuso @ 2 mins
4. Vine @ 3 mins
5. Almeida @ 4 mins
6. Remco @ 12 mins

No way. Almeida isn't good at one day races.

 

[Ripper]

No way. Almeida isn't good at one day races.

If it turns into a long solo TT, Almeida might even get to the podium

 

[Krzysztof_O]

World Champs road race Top 5 (all different countries but all UAE):

1. Pog
2. DelToro (st)
3. Ayuso @ 2 mins
4. Vine @ 3 mins
5. Almeida @ 4 mins
6. Remco @ 12 mins

Ayuso to wheelsuck Pogi the whole race only to "help" him in the last 100 meters. At the finish it will be worse than with Van Baarle after Flandres 2022.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ayuso to wheelsuck Pogi the whole race only to "help" him in the last 100 meters. At the finish it will be worse than with Van Baarle after Flandres 2022.

That would be peak cycling!

 

[SHAD0W93]

Ayuso to wheelsuck Pogi the whole race only to "help" him in the last 100 meters. At the finish it will be worse than with Van Baarle after Flandres 2022.

Even better would be Ayuso cosplaying as Valverde and someone Costaing to the win.

 

[Netserk]

Even better would be Ayuso cosplaying as Valverde and someone Costaing to the win.

Alaphilippe is the new Rui Costa.

 

[AlpRaid]

uae ridiculousness keeps on going.

 

[Red Rick]

Hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[the delgados]

In case you missed it, today in Montreal Pogacar dropped everyone before soft-pedaling to wait for McNulty to catch up and hitch a ride for the last 12 km's or so before being gifted the win. McNulty didn't do a single turn the entire time.
We're talking Mapei levels of over-the-top here.

 

[HashRouge]

The thing is, it is completely over the top, but I don't necessarily think it's doping. Obviously there may well be doping involved, but the biggest issue is money. Sivakov, Narvaez, McNulty, Yates and even Wellens would all have been leaders at this race for another team. The fact that you can afford to send a team like this to Canada, win seven stages of the Vuelta and 2nd on GC with another squad, and still have del Toro clearing up minor races in Italy, is the biggest problem to me. It's don't know if a budget cap would help, but the UCI really need to step up and do something. It's really not rocket science - stack your team with the best guys, and you'll get good results.

 

[the delgados]

The thing is, it is completely over the top, but I don't necessarily think it's doping. Obviously there may well be doping involved, but the biggest issue is money. Sivakov, Narvaez, McNulty, Yates and even Wellens would all have been leaders at this race for another team. The fact that you can afford to send a team like this to Canada, win seven stages of the Vuelta and 2nd on GC with another squad, and still have del Toro clearing up minor races in Italy, is the biggest problem to me. It's don't know if a budget cap would help, but the UCI really need to step up and do something. It's really not rocket science - stack your team with the best guys, and you'll get good results.

del Toro is a kid who came out of nowhere, and Wellens is an old workhorse. Salaries for professional cyclists are a mere pittance compared those in big-time sports. If anything, salary caps need to be assessed from the bottom up. Introducing a salary cap in a non-unionized sport would lower the salaries of domestiques.
I don't know del Toro's salary, but I would not be surprised if most teams could afford to pay it. Same goes for Wellens.
UAE has a massive amount of money that can be used to buy anything, including top-notch doping doctors using unknown doping products. Money also buys influence. I'd be surprised if someone like del Toro has more talent and horsepower than a large amount of pros on other teams.

 

[noob]

Money also makes it easier to bribe someone at UCI. Or worse; threatening people if they would get caught.

 

[Cookster15]

Salaries for professional cyclists are a mere pittance compared those in big-time sports

Professional cyclists in Europe don’t get paid too badly compared with regular careers people require university degrees to fill. Not really fair to compare with soccer, American sports or F1.

For example, in 2007 60 Minutes Australia ran a segment on Stuart O’Grady. That was an eye opener as he was paid more money than top football or cricket players in his country back then yet hardly known outside of cycling circles. O’Grady was only really a domestique with a few notable big wins like stage wins and wearing yellow for a few days at the TdF and then P-R of that year. But O’Grady was living a comfortable life in Monaco. You don’t live there unless you are not doing too badly.

And even UAE were not cashed up until recent years. When Pogacar stole the 2020 TdF from Primoz Roglic Visma were the big team for grand tours. Before that it was Sky / Ineos.

 

[the delgados]

Professional cyclists in Europe don’t get paid too badly compared with regular careers people require university degrees to fill. Not really fair to compare with soccer, American sports or F1.

For example, in 2007 60 Minutes Australia ran a segment on Stuart O’Grady. That was an eye opener as he was paid more money than top football or cricket players in his country back then yet hardly known outside of cycling circles. O’Grady was only really a domestique with a few notable big wins like stage wins and wearing yellow for a few days at the TdF and then P-R of that year. But O’Grady was living a comfortable life in Monaco. You don’t live there unless you are not doing too badly.

And even UAE were not cashed up until recent years. When Pogacar stole the 2020 TdF from Primoz Roglic Visma were the big team for grand tours. Before that it was Sky / Ineos.

Sure, some riders earn a handsome salary; that is not in dispute. But those salaries dwarf those of domestiques -- i.e. pack fillers.
I live in Canada, so I'll use a hockey analogy. A fourth line player on an NHL team makes more money in a season than pretty much the entire team of domestiques on a professional cycling team. And none of them have to resort to another job after a career lasting as long as someone like, for example, Wellens. (I don't know how much he's accumulated throughout his career, but you get the point.)
But all of that is beside the point of doping. In terms of physiology and experience, there's not a lot separating riders from different teams. They're all incredibly fit and strong. Which is why anyone familiar with the sport looks at the utter dominance of a team like UAE with eyes wide open.

 

[Cookster15]

In terms of physiology and experience, there's not a lot separating riders from different teams

I don’t think that is right….there are significant natural variations before we even consider doping . Anyone who has raced as an amateur knows this. Even in pros - that’s why we have sprinters, climbers and TT specialists for example.

 

[the delgados]

I don’t think that is right….there are significant natural variations before we even consider doping . Anyone who has raced as an amateur knows this. Even in pros - that’s why we have sprinters, climbers and TT specialists for example.

Fair enough.
But again, we're straying from the point about doping.