Is UAE Over the Top?

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Sure, it's stupid to hang out with Martí. But it seems that CELAD has made significant efforts, conducting surveillance, surprise checks, and in three years, that's all they have. It's pretty weak...

True that, but even if i don't think that Soler is the penguin that slides the furthest, surely nobody is dumb enough to be in the presence of a banned soigneur with drugs? Is there any reason to hang with Marti besides drugs or information about prohibited methods? For legit training/testing Soler should have all he needs at UAE.

 

[Squire]

What isn't basic and necessary for training (or even to do a lactate test) is a banned soigneur. The problem isn't what was or wasn't in the car, the problem is Marti.

At least it's pretty good evidence that whatever UAE is doing, there isn't some full team-wide program.

And I'm not very impressed by Soler's creativity. Surely there must be other 'coaches' he can work with that aren't banned? And from the Armstrong case, of all things. Sports doping surely isn't such a niche thing that only the same dozen people that did it 20 years ago know how to do it.

 

[Netserk]

At least it's pretty good evidence that whatever UAE is doing, there isn't some full team-wide program.

And I'm not very impressed by Soler's creativity. Surely there must be other 'coaches' he can work with that aren't banned? And from the Armstrong case, of all things. Sports doping surely isn't such a niche thing that only the same dozen people that did it 20 years ago know how to do it.

if only one rider in the entire peloton was stupid enough to do that ...

 

[Tim Cahill]

Zone 2, back in vogue, Dr. Inigo should be rehired this instant.

Florian Vermeersch:

“I hear from a lot of Visma riders that they started training differently.”The Belgian rider of UAE Team Emirates XRG explained that Visma is leaning towards sustained Zone 2 work rather than a strictly polarised split.“But it is not just Visma. No team trains in zone 1 during a winter training camp in Calpe. You see all of them pushing on in Zone 2 or even Zone 3. The difference is that we also train focused at home in Zone 2, but I’m not saying that Zone 2 training is a miracle cure. Our biggest advantage is that we have the best riders in the world.”“These days, the defining efforts in today’s biggest races increasingly come after hours of sustained pressure, rather than from short, isolated bursts of peak power.”“I’m a rider who can handle a high load and a lot of fatigue, so for me, training in Zone 2 also works well. But I wouldn’t dare to say that Visma’s VO2max approach is the wrong one.”“These days, the big races are ridden so hard from the start that it’s important to have as much reserve left as possible at the end of the day“I worked a lot this winter on durability, to be able to increase my power even after heavy fatigue. What you can still do after four hours of hard racing is the most important thing in racing nowadays.”

 

[peterfin]

"What you can still do after four hours of hard racing is the most important thing in racing nowadays." That is where all the extra performance comes from during the next race. I doubt it's zone 2 training.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

At least it's pretty good evidence that whatever UAE is doing, there isn't some full team-wide program.

And I'm not very impressed by Soler's creativity. Surely there must be other 'coaches' he can work with that aren't banned? And from the Armstrong case, of all things. Sports doping surely isn't such a niche thing that only the same dozen people that did it 20 years ago know how to do it.

I would not be so fast to say that it has nothing to do with UAE, if there's something approaching a team wide doping program at UAE, there are probably different "tiers" to it, and Soler seems to be in the "Call this guy, tell him you're coming on my behalf, he'll take good care of you at a fair price" tier.

 

[Squire]

I would not be so fast to say that it has nothing to do with UAE, if there's something approaching a team wide doping program at UAE, there are probably different "tiers" to it, and Soler seems to be in the "Call this guy, tell him you're coming on my behalf, he'll take good care of you at a fair price" tier.

'Hey, our most trusted Tour de France domestique on the best team in the world, you should call this banned guy from US Postal who'll meet you in a van at some random Spanish backroad. He doesn't cost too much, so even our limited petrodollar budget can afford him'.

I don't know man ...

 

[Tim Cahill]

'Hey, our most trusted Tour de France domestique on the best team in the world, you should call this banned guy from US Postal who'll meet you in a van at some random Spanish backroad. He doesn't cost too much, so even our limited petrodollar budget can afford him'.

I don't know man ...

I agree that it doesn't point towards any team-based program, however they must've known this encounter took place and even gave him a contract extension until 2027 afterwards. If they didn't know then he would surely be gone.

Strange rider anyway Soler, probably the 15th best rider at UAE, gets to do the Tour every year where he's usually ok/average then completely comes alive in the Vuelta and just dominates the race, you would think at the best team with the best rider, with such a hot competition for places alongside Pogacar, they wouldn't just allow someone to use it as a prep race like that.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Zone 2, back in vogue, Dr. Inigo should be rehired this instant.

Florian Vermeersch:

“I hear from a lot of Visma riders that they started training differently.”The Belgian rider of UAE Team Emirates XRG explained that Visma is leaning towards sustained Zone 2 work rather than a strictly polarised split.“But it is not just Visma. No team trains in zone 1 during a winter training camp in Calpe. You see all of them pushing on in Zone 2 or even Zone 3. The difference is that we also train focused at home in Zone 2, but I’m not saying that Zone 2 training is a miracle cure. Our biggest advantage is that we have the best riders in the world.”“These days, the defining efforts in today’s biggest races increasingly come after hours of sustained pressure, rather than from short, isolated bursts of peak power.”“I’m a rider who can handle a high load and a lot of fatigue, so for me, training in Zone 2 also works well. But I wouldn’t dare to say that Visma’s VO2max approach is the wrong one.”“These days, the big races are ridden so hard from the start that it’s important to have as much reserve left as possible at the end of the day“I worked a lot this winter on durability, to be able to increase my power even after heavy fatigue. What you can still do after four hours of hard racing is the most important thing in racing nowadays.”

I swear I hear conflicting information about this every other year, 3 or 4 years ago UAE were doing less hours on the bike and more intensity than visma, at some point that switched, now again visma is switching back. I'm not sure what's really going on but they all need to hop on the Norwegian training. New generated Scandinavians coming out of nowhere in their late 20s to win WT races on that team every year.

You can check what Jonas abramsen does on Strava, power data's and all, 10x 20 minutes at LT1 (z2-3) seems to be a staple.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

'Hey, our most trusted Tour de France domestique on the best team in the world, you should call this banned guy from US Postal who'll meet you in a van at some random Spanish backroad. He doesn't cost too much, so even our limited petrodollar budget can afford him'.

I don't know man ...

It's not like there isn't any precedent to those kinds of shenanigans, we already had "as our main tour de France contender you should meet with this spanish ob-gyn and his senile assistant, he'll sort it out for you"

Anyway the notion that a rider being caught working with a notorious banned soigneur could somehow be turned into a positive (pun intended) signal for a team doping wise, i don't know man...

 

[Rob5091]

Teams don't pay for visits to dodgy doctors - riders do. 25,000 Euros was the annual cost for Dr Schmidt's services (and he's out of prison by the way) for example.

 

[Berniece]

Zone 2, back in vogue, Dr. Inigo should be rehired this instant.

Florian Vermeersch:

“I hear from a lot of Visma riders that they started training differently.”The Belgian rider of UAE Team Emirates XRG explained that Visma is leaning towards sustained Zone 2 work rather than a strictly polarised split.“But it is not just Visma. No team trains in zone 1 during a winter training camp in Calpe. You see all of them pushing on in Zone 2 or even Zone 3. The difference is that we also train focused at home in Zone 2, but I’m not saying that Zone 2 training is a miracle cure. Our biggest advantage is that we have the best riders in the world.”“These days, the defining efforts in today’s biggest races increasingly come after hours of sustained pressure, rather than from short, isolated bursts of peak power.”“I’m a rider who can handle a high load and a lot of fatigue, so for me, training in Zone 2 also works well. But I wouldn’t dare to say that Visma’s VO2max approach is the wrong one.”“These days, the big races are ridden so hard from the start that it’s important to have as much reserve left as possible at the end of the day“I worked a lot this winter on durability, to be able to increase my power even after heavy fatigue. What you can still do after four hours of hard racing is the most important thing in racing nowadays.”

I thought the whole improvement from Pogacar since changing trainers was that he STOPPED doing so much zone 2 training?

 

[topcat]

Marc Soler got muddy but it didn't stick. Golden boy Pog remains Mister Suspicious and cycling's getting even faster.

 

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

Zone 2, back in vogue, Dr. Inigo should be rehired this instant.

Florian Vermeersch:

“I hear from a lot of Visma riders that they started training differently.”The Belgian rider of UAE Team Emirates XRG explained that Visma is leaning towards sustained Zone 2 work rather than a strictly polarised split.“But it is not just Visma. No team trains in zone 1 during a winter training camp in Calpe. You see all of them pushing on in Zone 2 or even Zone 3. The difference is that we also train focused at home in Zone 2, but I’m not saying that Zone 2 training is a miracle cure. Our biggest advantage is that we have the best riders in the world.”“These days, the defining efforts in today’s biggest races increasingly come after hours of sustained pressure, rather than from short, isolated bursts of peak power.”“I’m a rider who can handle a high load and a lot of fatigue, so for me, training in Zone 2 also works well. But I wouldn’t dare to say that Visma’s VO2max approach is the wrong one.”“These days, the big races are ridden so hard from the start that it’s important to have as much reserve left as possible at the end of the day“I worked a lot this winter on durability, to be able to increase my power even after heavy fatigue. What you can still do after four hours of hard racing is the most important thing in racing nowadays.”

People really misunderstand the "San Millan Z2" training method. When they talk about Z2, they mean LT1. LT1 is usually placed in the upper Z2 in the traditional 7-zone power model. But it's different for everyone. LT1 is when blood lactate levels first rise above resting values but are still low, preferably below 1.7 mmol/L.

Even for decently trained amateurs, the LT1 level is above Z2, in Z3. For pro athletes, it is much higher, and their LT1 and LT2 levels are extremely close. Abrahansen does 10x20min LT1 intervals at around 400 watts with 1.3 mmol/L. I don't know, at the UAE they probably call it Z2 because they use a three-zone model.

This is certainly not a new training method, nor was it invented by San Millan; he merely made it mainstream among weekend warriors. Although 99.9% of them definitely train incorrectly and not enough. Since they are too poor to buy LactatePlus.

 

[Red Rick]

"We have the best training in the world, we are on the cutting edge of training science of 3 decades ago"

 

[Krzysztof_O]

People really misunderstand the "San Millan Z2" training method. When they talk about Z2, they mean LT1. LT1 is usually placed in the upper Z2 in the traditional 7-zone power model. But it's different for everyone. LT1 is when blood lactate levels first rise above resting values but are still low, preferably below 1.7 mmol/L.

Even for decently trained amateurs, the LT1 level is above Z2, in Z3. For pro athletes, it is much higher, and their LT1 and LT2 levels are extremely close. Abrahansen does 10x20min LT1 intervals at around 400 watts with 1.3 mmol/L. I don't know, at the UAE they probably call it Z2 because they use a three-zone model.

This is certainly not a new training method, nor was it invented by San Millan; he merely made it mainstream among weekend warriors. Although 99.9% of them definitely train incorrectly and not enough. Since they are too poor to buy LactatePlus.

According to Pogacar his Z2 rides are 150-155 BPM when fresh, which corresponds to 70-75% of his HRmax (so the lower part of Z3 in classical HR approach). I wouldn't say his LT2 is that close to LT1 though: it's likely close to 90% of his HRmax.