Is Walsh on the Sky bandwagon?

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This is playing out with Walsh in the role of a lover who was seduced and fell in love with Team Sky drooling over everything only to find out that everything is not as it seems. Most onlookers could see that Walsh was only being used to help with the PR machine that was built to project and protect the image of a clean cycling team. Maybe its only now that Walsh has realised he was hoodwinked and used by others to serve their own purpose. How the story unfolds from here on will be interesting to follow. Brailsfords and Freeman's comments will be most interesting since they have strong links with the whole of British cycling. The fact that they have failed to speak a number of days after the story broke is very telling in itself.
 
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ontheroad said:
This is playing out with Walsh in the role of a lover who was seduced and fell in love with Team Sky drooling over everything only to find out that everything is not as it seems. Most onlookers could see that Walsh was only being used to help with the PR machine that was built to project and protect the image of a clean cycling team. Maybe its only now that Walsh has realised he was hoodwinked and used by others to serve their own purpose. How the story unfolds from here on will be interesting to follow. Brailsfords and Freeman's comments will be most interesting since they have strong links with the whole of British cycling. The fact that they have failed to speak a number of days after the story broke is very telling in itself.
Dodgy Dave Brailsford has always been one ready for a comment on hand washing, now he's disappeared. It's funny how these guys lap up stories on sandshoes but go into hiding when it matters most. Lance would have been firing back instantly, not these guys, they are whimps!

On that note, any word from Saint Millar?
 
May 26, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
TeflonDub said:
Very interesting that Walsh 'liked' this tweet. https://twitter.com/bignickguff/status/777465970424184832

"For me the article opens like @DavidWalshST has begun to distance himself from Sky. Which tells you a lot."
Maybe Sky are going to pull the plug and Walsh has been given the nod to start the unravelling.

Maybe cycling has reached its peak in the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/16/british-cycling-hsbc-new-team-sponsors

British Cycling set to announce HSBC as new team sponsors to replace Sky.........
 
Re: Re:

thehog said:
ontheroad said:
This is playing out with Walsh in the role of a lover who was seduced and fell in love with Team Sky drooling over everything only to find out that everything is not as it seems. Most onlookers could see that Walsh was only being used to help with the PR machine that was built to project and protect the image of a clean cycling team. Maybe its only now that Walsh has realised he was hoodwinked and used by others to serve their own purpose. How the story unfolds from here on will be interesting to follow. Brailsfords and Freeman's comments will be most interesting since they have strong links with the whole of British cycling. The fact that they have failed to speak a number of days after the story broke is very telling in itself.
Dodgy Dave Brailsford has always been one ready for a comment on hand washing, now he's disappeared. It's funny how these guys lap up stories on sandshoes but go into hiding when it matters most. Lance would have been firing back instantly, not these guys, they are whimps!

On that note, any word from Saint Millar?
My guess is that when asked to explain the TUE Brailsford will reply with something along the lines of 'that is a very good question and one which you should probably ask Richard'.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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One problproblem is if Dodgy Dave admits to having known about the tues, he admits to having lied to Paul kimmage when asked about the weight loss.
"Good question. Why don't you ask our nutrionist", he said back then.
 
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sniper said:
One problproblem is if Dodgy Dave admits to having known about the tues, he admits to having lied to Paul kimmage when asked about the weight loss.
"Good question. Why don't you ask our nutrionist", he said back then.

Agreed, they are very stuck, they also have one further issue is they don't know what else Fancy has in their hack. Do they have passport letters or the passport itself?

The only strategy to go with is "medical confidentiality" and hope it blows over.

It's weak sauce but I don't know what else they can do, they all well know the cortisone use was part of a bigger program.
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
Benotti69 said:
TeflonDub said:
Very interesting that Walsh 'liked' this tweet. https://twitter.com/bignickguff/status/777465970424184832

"For me the article opens like @DavidWalshST has begun to distance himself from Sky. Which tells you a lot."
Maybe Sky are going to pull the plug and Walsh has been given the nod to start the unravelling.

Maybe cycling has reached its peak in the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/16/british-cycling-hsbc-new-team-sponsors

British Cycling set to announce HSBC as new team sponsors to replace Sky.........
expect more financial doping then
;)
 
Jul 25, 2016
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TeflonDub said:
At least Walsh didn't write a book about Marginal Gains called 'Black Box Thinking' . Then he would feel really silly!
I'm very interested to see what spin Matthew Syed puts on the ADAMS data. Today he has been busy applying his uniquely strange narrative to Saracens rugby club:

".... to drive meaningful change, it sometimes pays to step beyond the comfort zone and find new ways of seeing the world. It is often by looking at problems afresh that you spot the connections that drive innovation."
Stepping beyond the comfort zone apparently includes bringing in a philosopher on a regular basis to debate with the players.

How stuck in the dark ages Sky are, to still be relying on old school corticosteroids when some Wittgenstein would have done the job...
 
Aug 30, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
buckle said:
IOW the transformation from 2010 - 2012 was less dramatic than the one at Garmin.
An JV never saw a thing. Amazing how cyclists and those around cyclists suffer temporary blindness.
Hasn't JV's claim been that Wiggins was doing most (if not all) his training with Ellingworth/British Cycling?
 
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buckle said:
42x16ss said:
buckle said:
[quote="
Wiggins' transformation had already taken place in 2009.
Close, it took place over the course of 2009.
IOW the transformation from 2010 - 2012 was less dramatic than the one at Garmin.
Yes. The original, more dramatic transformation occurred while Wigans was working with Ellingworth and British Cycling for most of the year (rather than JV and the Garmin coaching staff) and Brailsford and Co were piecing Sky together claiming they would have "a Brrrrrrrrritish Tour de France winner within 5 years".

http://www.bicycle.net/2010/team-sky-aiming-for-tour-de-france-bullseye-in-five-years

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/jun/29/britain-olympic-cycling-tour-brailsford

Ouch.
 
May 12, 2011
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TeflonDub said:
thehog said:
TeflonDub said:
Only new thing is how Freeman clammed up in response to DW's attempts to get a comment, DW seemed surprised by that as they go back a ways. Also quotes a former USPS rider who confirms Kenalog is powerful PED, along with Millar experience of the injection which is already out there.

Overall, signs of illness in early 2011 could make a case, but winning 2012 Dauphine and his book talking about his great form going into that year's TdF with no mention of illness makes case for a preventative injection very suspect.

Concludes with a swipe at Team Sky, saying they want to be seen as white have been less so. "What they did was legal but it was not right."
Thanks for that. I sense Walsh is pissed that they've been lying to him during his embedding at Sky. Which leads to the next question, what other BS did they tell Walsh, most likely a lot.

Good on Walsh if the article reads as you suggest.
Yeah, just like Swart, Froome comes out clean, everybody running from Wiggins, and Walsh a bit nose out of joint with Freeman stiff-arming him and all not being what he thought it was at Sky. But I would say he's casting Wiggo off as a lone wolf as most of the team didn't know about the injections. I don't think DW will be happy if he finds out that Team Sky's medical staff enabled Wiggo's TUEs. I think he knows they did and it was Freeman, but I don't think he has fully processed the implications of that. Namely, that they brough in Leinders to brain-rape his intellectual property, but kept his name well clear of any official paperwork.
There's an alternative possibility that Leinders might have joined the Team as a shot at redemption and to simply provide quality medical care (where he did have a lot of experience). He might not have been involved in anything untoward at all and all of this going on now is simply co-incidental.

This is hinted at when you read about how he complained to Peters that seeking a TUE in competition was against the team's internal policy.

Things to think about...
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Jeroen Swart said:
Things to think about...
Great work in the past couple of days, Jeroen.
Putting yourself in the crossfire. Kudos.
Have you had any angry reactions from Sky and/or Wiggins fans? In can only imagine.
Either way, I hope you keep up this line of inquiry. Really good.

This is hinted at when you read about how he complained to Peters that seeking a TUE in competition was against the team's internal policy.
I don't remember exactly who said this about Leinders (was it Peters, or Freeman?, in Walsh's book?), but it's certainly not from a Sky-independent source.
 
Re: Re:

Jeroen Swart said:
TeflonDub said:
thehog said:
TeflonDub said:
Only new thing is how Freeman clammed up in response to DW's attempts to get a comment, DW seemed surprised by that as they go back a ways. Also quotes a former USPS rider who confirms Kenalog is powerful PED, along with Millar experience of the injection which is already out there.

Overall, signs of illness in early 2011 could make a case, but winning 2012 Dauphine and his book talking about his great form going into that year's TdF with no mention of illness makes case for a preventative injection very suspect.

Concludes with a swipe at Team Sky, saying they want to be seen as white have been less so. "What they did was legal but it was not right."
Thanks for that. I sense Walsh is pissed that they've been lying to him during his embedding at Sky. Which leads to the next question, what other BS did they tell Walsh, most likely a lot.

Good on Walsh if the article reads as you suggest.
Yeah, just like Swart, Froome comes out clean, everybody running from Wiggins, and Walsh a bit nose out of joint with Freeman stiff-arming him and all not being what he thought it was at Sky. But I would say he's casting Wiggo off as a lone wolf as most of the team didn't know about the injections. I don't think DW will be happy if he finds out that Team Sky's medical staff enabled Wiggo's TUEs. I think he knows they did and it was Freeman, but I don't think he has fully processed the implications of that. Namely, that they brough in Leinders to brain-rape his intellectual property, but kept his name well clear of any official paperwork.
There's an alternative possibility that Leinders might have joined the Team as a shot at redemption and to simply provide quality medical care (where he did have a lot of experience). He might not have been involved in anything untoward at all and all of this going on now is simply co-incidental.

This is hinted at when you read about how he complained to Peters that seeking a TUE in competition was against the team's internal policy.

Things to think about...
It's possible but it contradicts a previous quote from Leinders himself:

The new cycling? "Nonsense, innovation has always been there. Think of it as shedding your skin. The snake gets a new skin, but underneath it remains the same snake. He takes his past and his problems along with him into the present. Now people think its all gone in one go. But that's not the case. I was recently asked to participate in a TV program titled: "How clean will the 2011 Tour be?" Now I'm really not going to participate in that."
 
Re: Re:

Jeroen Swart said:
TeflonDub said:
thehog said:
TeflonDub said:
Only new thing is how Freeman clammed up in response to DW's attempts to get a comment, DW seemed surprised by that as they go back a ways. Also quotes a former USPS rider who confirms Kenalog is powerful PED, along with Millar experience of the injection which is already out there.

Overall, signs of illness in early 2011 could make a case, but winning 2012 Dauphine and his book talking about his great form going into that year's TdF with no mention of illness makes case for a preventative injection very suspect.

Concludes with a swipe at Team Sky, saying they want to be seen as white have been less so. "What they did was legal but it was not right."
Thanks for that. I sense Walsh is pissed that they've been lying to him during his embedding at Sky. Which leads to the next question, what other BS did they tell Walsh, most likely a lot.

Good on Walsh if the article reads as you suggest.
Yeah, just like Swart, Froome comes out clean, everybody running from Wiggins, and Walsh a bit nose out of joint with Freeman stiff-arming him and all not being what he thought it was at Sky. But I would say he's casting Wiggo off as a lone wolf as most of the team didn't know about the injections. I don't think DW will be happy if he finds out that Team Sky's medical staff enabled Wiggo's TUEs. I think he knows they did and it was Freeman, but I don't think he has fully processed the implications of that. Namely, that they brough in Leinders to brain-rape his intellectual property, but kept his name well clear of any official paperwork.
There's an alternative possibility that Leinders might have joined the Team as a shot at redemption and to simply provide quality medical care (where he did have a lot of experience). He might not have been involved in anything untoward at all and all of this going on now is simply co-incidental.

This is hinted at when you read about how he complained to Peters that seeking a TUE in competition was against the team's internal policy.

Things to think about...
Something panicked DB into the Leinders appointment of 2010. Wiggins had already worked a miracle in the 2009 tour a point of significant embarrassment to him:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/other-sport/cycling/cycling-bradley-wiggins-shocked-lance-2020999

Wiggins added:: “I never raced against him (Armstrong) in the Tour de France, just the once in the Criterium in 2004."
 
Oct 16, 2010
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^ I think it's quite obvious what this 'something' was: Team Sky doing a PDM at the Vuelta 2010.
They were trying to get it right, but got it completely wrong. Txema dies. The team gets sick.
Alarm code red.
Enter Leinders.
 
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sniper said:
^ I think it's quite obvious what this 'something' was: Team Sky doing a PDM at the Vuelta 2010.
They were trying to get it right, but got it completely wrong. Txema dies. The team gets sick.
Alarm code red.
Enter Leinders.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/interview-david-walsh-on-inside-team-sky/

DW: What evidence do you have that they used Gonzalez's death as a pretext?

CN: I don't have evidence but it certainly seems to be casting a terrible aspersion on the doctors who worked on the team at the Vuelta in 2010. It's basically saying that they weren't up to their job and a man died as a consequence.

DW: So you don't believe it was a pretext, you just don't know?

CN:I don't know.

DW: Well Barry, your question reflects your bias and it's like all the people out there on Twitter who are telling me Sky are this and Sky are that. Show me the evidence. Give me a lead and I'll go and investigate it. I'd be the happiest man in the world to write the story because I like writing good stories.

I spoke at length with people about Txema Gonzalez's death and the carnage in the team at the time. There was a feeling from the riders that the doctor at that time just wasn't cycling empathetic. He didn't understand what people on the road needed. It was a separate but related issue to the tragedy of Gonzalez. I think Dave Brailsford has admitted that he made a really bad judgment call in going for doctors with cycling experience at that time and Geert Leinders in particular, and it was a wrong decision and it backfired on him big time when the truth came out about Leinders and they asked him to leave
.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

Bannockburn said:
Benotti69 said:
buckle said:
IOW the transformation from 2010 - 2012 was less dramatic than the one at Garmin.
An JV never saw a thing. Amazing how cyclists and those around cyclists suffer temporary blindness.
Hasn't JV's claim been that Wiggins was doing most (if not all) his training with Ellingworth/British Cycling?
Yes, but JV at the sam time claimed his team was clean due to him spending half a million $$$s on internal testing, how could he be testing Wiggins if he was not around.

It also begs questions of how much extra Leinders brought to Sky, as Wiggins was called Twiggo in 2009 peloton with the weight loss back then, so what did Leinders give or do to take him from 4th to 1st and all season long in 2012.

These are questions Walsh should be addressing.
 
May 26, 2010
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Amazing how Walsh wont see comparisons with USPS and Sky. Armstrong bitched on motorola how they were getting their asses kicked and needed to so something, Merckx insists on Ferrari doping Armstong. Sky 2010 got asses kicked and a staff member dies, enter Geert Leinders and boom Sky rocket.

Walsh wont join the dots.
 
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hrotha said:
Did Walsh seriously ask for evidence of Brailsford's using Txema's death as a pretext to hire Leinders? Sigh. Some investigative journalist who can't use Google.

Anyway, here it is: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/brailsford-addresses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean-5312
It's not inconceivable as Swart says that the hiring of Leinders was actually genuine. Wiggins was a contender in 2010 and the program was already operational. The major gain had already been achieved by Wiggins pre-Sky. The own goal makes limited sense.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

buckle said:
hrotha said:
Did Walsh seriously ask for evidence of Brailsford's using Txema's death as a pretext to hire Leinders? Sigh. Some investigative journalist who can't use Google.

Anyway, here it is: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/brailsford-addresses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean-5312
It's not inconceivable as Swart says that the hiring of Leinders was actually genuine. Wiggins was a contender in 2010 and the program was already operational. The major gain had already been achieved by Wiggins pre-Sky. The own goal makes limited sense.
The hiring of Leinders for saddle sores and bruises doesn't ring true and if they were truly worried about staff health, re Texema's death than why a cycling specialist? Why not a specialist viral doctor?

Leinders brought knowledge and a connection to Zorzoli. Once they learnt from Leinders the methodology he was surplus to requirements as we saw when it came to light he was on Sky they jettisoned him, but already they had 18months of his insider knowledge.
 
Sep 15, 2016
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Re: Re:

Jeroen Swart said:
TeflonDub said:
thehog said:
TeflonDub said:
Only new thing is how Freeman clammed up in response to DW's attempts to get a comment, DW seemed surprised by that as they go back a ways. Also quotes a former USPS rider who confirms Kenalog is powerful PED, along with Millar experience of the injection which is already out there.

Overall, signs of illness in early 2011 could make a case, but winning 2012 Dauphine and his book talking about his great form going into that year's TdF with no mention of illness makes case for a preventative injection very suspect.

Concludes with a swipe at Team Sky, saying they want to be seen as white have been less so. "What they did was legal but it was not right."
Thanks for that. I sense Walsh is pissed that they've been lying to him during his embedding at Sky. Which leads to the next question, what other BS did they tell Walsh, most likely a lot.

Good on Walsh if the article reads as you suggest.
Yeah, just like Swart, Froome comes out clean, everybody running from Wiggins, and Walsh a bit nose out of joint with Freeman stiff-arming him and all not being what he thought it was at Sky. But I would say he's casting Wiggo off as a lone wolf as most of the team didn't know about the injections. I don't think DW will be happy if he finds out that Team Sky's medical staff enabled Wiggo's TUEs. I think he knows they did and it was Freeman, but I don't think he has fully processed the implications of that. Namely, that they brough in Leinders to brain-rape his intellectual property, but kept his name well clear of any official paperwork.
There's an alternative possibility that Leinders might have joined the Team as a shot at redemption and to simply provide quality medical care (where he did have a lot of experience). He might not have been involved in anything untoward at all and all of this going on now is simply co-incidental.

This is hinted at when you read about how he complained to Peters that seeking a TUE in competition was against the team's internal policy.

Things to think about...
The thing with Leinders is that he didn't strike me as a "crazy" doping doctor, good at designing a program that would get you to peform well while flying under the radar, good at using is connections to put "butter on the head" if need be, but not someone who was going to endanger the safety of his riders short term... Although i seem to remember that the chicken 2007 doping programme was a bit scary (I seem to recall that he used insuline, i might be mistaken, but if not that's one that can be super dangerous if not used with care)
I mean he wasn't a kelme doctor using veterinary medicine, or a Fuentes using a senile helper to tend to his clients blood bags and botching transfusions in the process... So you never know, he might have gone to sky to do "proper" care...
Still, the results speaks for themselves, he was a "bloody good" doping doctor.
Curious that he didn't break omerta if he really wanted to end his career in a ethical way, i mean a lifetime suspension when you have guys like Ibarguren still doing their "job" might be a little frustrating...
And if it ain't him, then who? (Yes i think that there's far more to sky than dubious TUE and cortisone use OOC, but i don't think it will surprise many here)
 
Re: Re:

Jeroen Swart said:
TeflonDub said:
thehog said:
TeflonDub said:
Only new thing is how Freeman clammed up in response to DW's attempts to get a comment, DW seemed surprised by that as they go back a ways. Also quotes a former USPS rider who confirms Kenalog is powerful PED, along with Millar experience of the injection which is already out there.

Overall, signs of illness in early 2011 could make a case, but winning 2012 Dauphine and his book talking about his great form going into that year's TdF with no mention of illness makes case for a preventative injection very suspect.

Concludes with a swipe at Team Sky, saying they want to be seen as white have been less so. "What they did was legal but it was not right."
Thanks for that. I sense Walsh is pissed that they've been lying to him during his embedding at Sky. Which leads to the next question, what other BS did they tell Walsh, most likely a lot.

Good on Walsh if the article reads as you suggest.
Yeah, just like Swart, Froome comes out clean, everybody running from Wiggins, and Walsh a bit nose out of joint with Freeman stiff-arming him and all not being what he thought it was at Sky. But I would say he's casting Wiggo off as a lone wolf as most of the team didn't know about the injections. I don't think DW will be happy if he finds out that Team Sky's medical staff enabled Wiggo's TUEs. I think he knows they did and it was Freeman, but I don't think he has fully processed the implications of that. Namely, that they brough in Leinders to brain-rape his intellectual property, but kept his name well clear of any official paperwork.
There's an alternative possibility that Leinders might have joined the Team as a shot at redemption and to simply provide quality medical care (where he did have a lot of experience). He might not have been involved in anything untoward at all and all of this going on now is simply co-incidental.

This is hinted at when you read about how he complained to Peters that seeking a TUE in competition was against the team's internal policy.

Things to think about...
 
May 26, 2010
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David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 2h hours ago
The more I've looked at the Wiggins' TUEs, the murkier they seem. I've tried to explain in tomorrow's ST how it happened.

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST Sep 21
@justin771924 Justin, those three injections in 2011, '12 and '13 were very wrong. The damage to BW and team's reputation is significant.
Wonder will Murdoch/Sky pull the plug as they have reached peak return on their investment.
 

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