Is Walsh on the Sky bandwagon?

[ebandit]

Up to you. I don't mind. Just have accept we see things differently. I support Kimmidge. You support Walsh/Murdoch/News Corp.

No harm in differing philophies and opinions.

Ahhh straight back with the strawman

I've read the Walsh book so I'm well versed on what played out.

That is quite a breath-taking claim for somebody who didn't know that Kimmage was sacked in the year before his Walsh fallout....and who implied that Kimmage was sacked because of the fallout...

....and who claims that Kimmage is simultaneously paid and not paid for his work



It's good that you are backing away from this....not that you've much choice.

Mark L

 

[thehog]

It was a career move by Kimmage.......who needs friends like that?

Mark L

You're right. We should just dump our friends who lose their employment. Who needs friends who can't pay their way..

Thanks Rupert.

 

[thehog]

Thank you for this. What's interesting is how he criticises the interviewer for having a biased opinion on Sky whilst not acknowledging that his own is biased in the opposite direction.

So much of that article seems to come down to 'I met the guys, liked them and believed what they were telling me'. Which I'm not saying shouldn't weigh into things, but is hardly testing a hypothesis to destruction. It seems, reading that, that he went with the view to being objective and then fell under the spell - he acknowledges - of wanting to believe the mantra. I used to be an auditor and we were constantly warned of this kind of thing. Trusting you'd hear about stuff if you hung out with people long enough to 'see the cut of their jib' is not exactly being a terrier to sniff out anything suspicious.

If he has changed his view, he should be open about it and its implications. He should be willing to admit he condemned people in the past for things which now he believes aren't valid. Fine, he can still believe Contador is a cheat; he just can't expect people to accept that climbing speeds are good justification for his view if Froome's aren't subject to the same question. Opinions change, there's no shame in admitting you've learnt a thing or two.

Well stated and excellent post.

 

[ebandit]

You're right. We should just dump our friends who lose their employment. Who needs friends who can't pay their way..

Thanks Rupert.

Err....Kimmage dumped Walsh

Jeez you are having a bad day at the office today

Mark L

 

[thehog]

Err....Kimmage dumped Walsh

Jeez you are having a bad day at the office today

Mark L

No, Murdoch dumped Kimmidge, Walsh took the pay cheque.

Kimmidge kept his values, Walsh sold his in.

Very straightforward.

 

[ebandit]

No, Murdoch dumped Kimmidge, Walsh took the pay cheque.

Kimmidge kept his values, Walsh sold his in.

Very straightforward.

.....which has nothing to do with the discussion taking place now and for the last few pages which is about the Walsh and Kimmage fallout....and which your previous posts and the post of mine you quoted were about...

Hog tactic #2 When caught out move the goalposts quickly


Mark L

 

[thehog]

.....which has nothing tdo with the discuss taking place now and for the last few page which iabout the Walsh and Kimmagfallout....and which your previou psts and thepost of mine yo quoted were about...

Hog tactic #2 When caught out move the goalposts quickly


Mark L

It's fact, that is all, I can't help it you can't accept it. It's the Walsh thread is it not?

Kimmage explains a little more about Murdoch and his job loss. Clearly Walsh knew what to write to keep his job and get the book deal.

It’s been very, very difficult. Let’s just say we have had a difference of opinion,” he said. “I spent about two hours in Dublin Airport screaming at him, letting him know exactly what I thought.

“Then we patched things up again and then July [and the Tour de France] came. What he wrote was also part of it. I don’t want to say too much out of respect to him, his kids, my kids. I don’t know if I will ever speak to him again.

“We fought in the same trenches for a long time but the difference is that I rode the Tour three times. It runs real deep with me.”

Kimmage also spoke about the effect redundancy had on him and his family after he was let got by The Sunday Times for what he claims was his stance on doping.

He believes it all started when a piece he wrote about Armstrong after the American targeted him at an infamous press conference in 2009 was never printed “even though everyone was talking about it”.

“Then he made his comeback and I was told I had to write about him and then when I did write about him the pieces ended up being butchered,” he said.

“In 2010, I wrote about Sky, a Murdoch company, and was told ‘we can’t run that’. In 2011 this was happening more and more. And when cuts were made, obviously I was going to be the person to go.”

He’s in a better place now though.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/other-sports/kimmage-reveals-walsh-row-254390.html

 

[Digger]

Walsh is also showing zero solidarity for guys, even outside of Kimmage, who were bullied by Brailsford, or were told by their Sunday times editor to write a positive piece or come home.

Those guys stayed. And are still being paid. But Kimmage is seen as the guy who made a career move.

 

[ebandit]

It's fact, that is all, I can't help it you can't accept it. It's the Walsh thread is it not?

Yes....and the discussion was about the Kimmage/Walsh fallout and not Kimmage's job loss.

At least you have given up trying to argue that:
* Walsh dumped Kimmage
*Kimmage wasn't paid for his work and Kimmage was paid for his work
*Kimmage was sacked because of his fallout with Walsh

...good too that you've dropped the strawman attack claiming that I support Murdoch, when the discussion wasn't about Murdoch

It's ok...you've failed to defend the preposterous claims you made as detailed above....and because of that you now want to change the subject...

You are dropping those claims and you want to move on quickly....fine by me

Mark L

 

[ebandit]

Those guys stayed. And are still being paid. But Kimmage is seen as the guy who made a career move.

You are referring to a comment made by me....but you are twisting it out of context (what a surprise )

.....the comment was that Kimmage's highly self-publicised fallout with Walsh was a career move to try and get himself some attention after losing his job the previous year (it worked....he got an interview with Froome off the back of it )

Hog tried this tactic too....read the last few pages and you'll see how that worked out for him

If you want to discuss what I said then keep it in context

Mark L

 

[thehog]

Walsh is also showing zero solidarity for guys, even outside of Kimmage, who were bullied by Brailsford, or were told by their Sunday times editor to write a positive piece or come home.

Those guys stayed. And are still being paid. But Kimmage is seen as the guy who made a career move.

Yes, Kimmage made a career move apparently!?

The facts tell a different story. The cult of Walsh is strong though. They will believe anything. And to think Murdoch has supporters! I never!

 

[ebandit]

Ooh look...thehog is rallying because he thinks some backup has arrived......and he's straight back in with the strawman

Tell you what boys....have at it.....I'm off out for a swim with my kids....

Mark L

 

[thehog]

Ooh look...thehog is rallying because he thinks some backup has arrived......and he's straight back in with the strawman

Tell you what boys....have at it.....I'm off out for a swim with my kids....

Mark L

Cheers.

Have fun, tell them about Rupert Murdoch & David Walsh. Role models.

 

[Digger]

You are referring to a comment made by me....but you are twisting it out of context (what a surprise )

.....the comment was that Kimmage's highly self-publicised fallout with Walsh was a career move to try and get himself some attention after losing his job the previous year (it worked....he got an interview with Froome off the back of it )

Hog tried this tactic too....read the last few pages and you'll see how that worked out for him

If you want to discuss what I said then keep it in context

Mark L

So Kimmage falling out with Walsh got him a job with the Irish Sunday independent...nothing to do with him having worked there for a decade previously..you are an amazing career guidance counsellor

 

[TheSpud]

No, Murdoch dumped Kimmidge, Walsh took the pay cheque.

Kimmidge kept his values, Walsh sold his in.

Very straightforward.

Quick question for you. If Kimmage had been embedded with Sky for a year and had come to the same conclusion as Walsh, would you be accusing him of selling out?

If so, on what basis?
If not, why not?

 

[thehog]

Quick question for you. If Kimmage had been embedded with Sky for a year and had come to the same conclusion as Walsh, would you be accusing him of selling out?

If so, on what basis?
If not, why not?

That's not a quick question, that's several!

Sadly Brailsford put a ban on Kimmage along with Wiggins. Censorship one can gather.

Judging by Kimmage's Froome interview he'd at least do his research and get facts correct unlike Walsh. I mean how hard it be to at least check race results?!

 

[TheSpud]

That's not a quick question, that's several!

Sadly Brailsford put a ban on Kimmage along with Wiggins. Censorship one can gather.

Judging by Kimmage's Froome interview he'd at least do his research and get facts correct unlike Walsh. I mean how hard it be to at least check race results?!

Ok, I'll concede its more than one question, but its only a question with a follow up. I don't see why you cant answer it though. Brailsford's and Wiggo's ban is an irrelevance, as is whether Kimmage would have done more research. The question is whether you would be taking the same stance.

 

[Benotti69]

Career moves don't necessarily involve being paid........he got exposure.......the whole move was to get the spotlight on him as being the great anti-doping journalist

Mark L

Really, a career move? So link all the articles about Kimmage falling out with Walsh that was done as part of this career move. There must be loads!!

 

[thehog]

Ok, I'll concede its more than one question, but its only a question with a follow up. I don't see why you cant answer it though. Brailsford's and Wiggo's ban is an irrelevance, as is whether Kimmage would have done more research. The question is whether you would be taking the same stance.

But it's not a question.

You can see from one Froome interview, Kimmidge managed to get more out Dawg then Walsh managed in two books.

Thus the method and the approach taken to reach the final conclusion is very important. If you look at Walsh's conclusions with his flip flopping, inconsistencies, poor fact checking along with obvious incorrect facts then you worry what Walsh was actually doing at Sky. Was he really embedded or just paid to be there and write nice things?

I think the books prove he was just getting paid. End of story.

 

[Benotti69]

Quick question for you. If Kimmage had been embedded with Sky for a year and had come to the same conclusion as Walsh, would you be accusing him of selling out?

If so, on what basis?
If not, why not?

If wishes were fishes...............IF?

If Kimmage had been embedded and called Sky dopers would there still be loads of fans claiming Kimmage was bitter, jealous and a hater?

 

[ebandit]

Really, a career move? So link all the articles about Kimmage falling out with Walsh that was done as part of this career move. There must be loads!!

There are.....do your own googling.....Kimmage setting himself up as the saviour of clean cycling.......

So, he managed to get what he (and you guys) had been salivating for.....an interview with Froome

......and Kimmage bombed.

Mark L

 

[ebandit]

If wishes were fishes...............IF?

If Kimmage had been embedded and called Sky dopers would there still be loads of fans claiming Kimmage was bitter, jealous and a hater?

I agree with Benotti on this....hypothetical don't really lead anywhere

Mark L

 

[TheSpud]

I agree with Benotti on this....hypothetical don't really lead anywhere

Mark L

So we can delete half The Clinic then given the amount of hypotheticals that have been posted before ...

 

[ebandit]

So we can delete half The Clinic then given the amount of hypotheticals that have been posted before ...

Exactly!

Mark L

 

[TheSpud]

If Kimmage had been embedded and called Sky dopers would there still be loads of fans claiming Kimmage was bitter, jealous and a hater?

Probably.

I just wonder how many people would write him off as being in Sky's pocket / lost the plot like they have done with Walsh.