is yates right about more pressure being on andy/cuddles?

[ElChingon]

The pressure is on the rider who has never won it! Contador has won it and had that knowledge/experience, Andy and Cadel don't. Andy has choked before so that monkey is still on his back till the day he wins it, Cadel as well he's worn the yellow jersey but not for long. There is no way Andy and Cadel can be breathing easy as they don't know if they can win it, yet.

 

[greenedge]

They can both handle the pressure. I think Andy has more pressure though. Cadel will be plotting something and trying to not expend energy. Andy has to try race to win. Contador however if he loses shall be in the media's spotlight shown to be beat by Andy, the world will go ballistic. The rationallity that he had a hard Giro will be lost. Also that prospect must make him afraid as his form/ wining ways might go down after a setback. If he had no desire to ride the TDF with an impending hearing he shouldn't have. However since he is riding it there is pressure that he has put upon himself.

 

[thehog]

Contador losing time on stage 1 was the worst possiable scenario for Andy. Shleck liked the fall back position that Contador is a cheat. He can't do that now. If Contador wins it will mentally destroy Andy. He won't recover. The fact that Leopard pushed it after Contador's fall along with the soft pedal when the Leopard group crashed within 3km has only give impertus for a magical Contador victory. A true French-styled victory.

 

[veganrob]

The race hasn't started the way I had expected. I thought AC would sit for first week or so before testing his legs. But, he has shown that he is indeed racing to win and he appears to have his legs. Once they hit the mountains, watch out, he will be full bore, knowing he has it.
I give Cadel credit as he is also racing to win. Though it is early and his reckoning may come in the high mountains.
Andy, nothing. He apparently is saving himself. But what if it is not there when AC tests him? It may not, and then he will crumble like a house of cards.

 

[pedaling squares]

Contador losing time on stage 1 was the worst possiable scenario for Andy.

A classic example of the logic that can only exist in the CN forum!

 

[thehog]

A classic example of the logic that can only exist in the CN forum!

It's bad news for Lance also

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

you didn't get the logic right.
and some of that i'm not touching cuz it just appears to be venting.

but i'll say this - i'm not making excuses. i didn't say AC was deserving of anything or that he *should* win or anything of the sort. I merely stated the obvious - these people want to win against AC with their legs, not with crashes/bad luck. Basso said so himself the other day, so you needn't even take my word for it. had ulrich won that year lancey-poo had the flu, wouldn't everyone have said, "good for jan, but really, he beat a sick opponent so..." so it's not much of a leap to say that, if andy wins, that the victory is a hair less convincing since he was spotted 1:30 by AC from the start. doesn't mean it isn't a good win, just means it's a win against a weakened field.

plus, the TTT wasn't really bad for Saxo. they knew full well they'd lose the time there, just like last year over the cobbles. so, i'm afraid your assessment of it being not good enough simply isn't shared by many of us, nor the team itself.

lastly, had Cuddles come to the Tour in the kind of shape to win, never had a cracked day and was 4th after doing a tough Giro beforehand, i'm guessing when the flak flew about him not winning, you'd have been fine had someone said "well, he had a giro in his legs already so you could understand the missing firepower."

really, you just seem to hate AC or really love Cuddles. fair enough, but don't let it cloud your judgement on everything else.

I appreciate the stream-of-consciousness literary movement as much as the next guy, but using an occasional capital letter to indicate the start of a sentence won't kill you.

 

[AussieGoddess]

Every stages that passes and Evans is still firmly seated higher up in the gc than his opposition increases the pressure that he's under. Unlike Andy though, Evans speaks of his long held dream of winning the Tour and not having given up hope, while Andy speaks with a sense of entitlement and inevitability as if it, a Tour win, is something promised or, in his opinion, something that was unfairly snatched from his grasp. He's spoken candidly bout what he thinks will be the potential weakness of his primary rival and his team as a result of their Giro participation.

For Andy, it his race to lose and the pressure to win must be smothering him. The self-proclaimed "best climber in the world" was dropped on a Cat 3 climb by a sprint specialist. Quite the humbling experience after he had the audacity to critique an opponent's cycling accumen who just so happens to have 6 grand tour wins on his palmares to Andy's zero. One day you're a genius and the next you're skulking back to your bus wondering what the hell just happened. Andy's voice has been heard above all the other contenders when it came to talking up their chances for victory and with that comes the biggest burden of pressure.

Really the pressure is on all those who call themselves contenders. With Contador coming off of a grueling Giro, the expectation is that he can't be at the level of Tour 2009 and not even Tour 2010, so he has to be vulnerable. These are reasonable expectations but with them comes the pressure to make them a reality. We have yet to reach the mountains and until then we won't know the toll that the Giro took out of Contador and his teammates that shared in his victory.

The only pressure Contador is under (other than the pending CAS decision) is trying to achieve something that is relatively rare in modern cycling and while to fail at this task may delight many it is still the attempted untaking after such a challenging Giro that IMO should be respected.

Totally agree

Contador is in a situation where he will gain respect no matter how he goes.

Schleck has it all to prove, and losing this time around wont be acceptable. Especially after all the trash talk.

Cadel has been in this position before ... talks of hopes and dreams, not of expectation ... and many already believe he doesnt have what it takes to win, so it isnt really expected. If he does win, it will be a bonus.

 

[Kender]

Contador losing time on stage 1 was the worst possiable scenario for Andy. Shleck liked the fall back position that Contador is a cheat. He can't do that now. If Contador wins it will mentally destroy Andy. He won't recover. The fact that Leopard pushed it after Contador's fall along with the soft pedal when the Leopard group crashed within 3km has only give impertus for a magical Contador victory. A true French-styled victory.

most of the pushing was done by OPL and BMC... both of which were hunting for the stage win, which was perfectly valid since they ended up 1-2

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

in the interview on velonews, Yates says more pressure is on Andy and Cuddles than on AC. do you agree?

Nah. All 3 are in it to win and all 3 will be feeling the pressure to do well. Which one feels more pressure depends a lot on how each handles pressure. I can see where Yates thinks AC may not feel as much pressure because he has one GT win this year already, but nobody really knows how AC is going to perform in the Tour having raced the Giro and won. Since that's a big question mark it might make his rivals more tense, but at the same time even AC prolly does not know how he will perform compared his rivals at the Tour.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Maybe Yates should be looking in his own backyard. Even with Swift, Sky have openly said that they are all behind Wiggins' top 5 or top 3 ambition. The pressure is on them to deliver the goods. The pressure was on them to win the TTT of which they didn't win.

Andy should have much more pressure to win. Many on this forum think Cadel will crumble on the climbs but believe Schleck has the goods on the climb. Schleck has some big time on Contador. The responsiblity is on him to not completely screw that advantage up because if he does the knives will be out.

 

[Midnightfright]

Maybe Yates should be looking in his own backyard. Even with Swift, Sky have openly said that they are all behind Wiggins' top 5 or top 3 ambition. The pressure is on them to deliver the goods. The pressure was on them to win the TTT of which they didn't win.

Andy should have much more pressure to win. Many on this forum think Cadel will crumble on the climbs but believe Schleck has the goods on the climb. Schleck has some big time on Contador. The responsiblity is on him to not completely screw that advantage up because if he does the knives will be out.

If there realistic in Wiggans ability there shouldnt be any pressure on him. I think he can top 10 but if there's pressure on him to podium that's a lot to ask. I think the main pressure on SKY was to get a stage win and the TTT is what they had earmarked as there best chance but seen as they've won 1 anyway there will be fairly happy.

Also I was under impression the knives were already out for AS?

 

[Special_oz_ed]

Logic

lostincosmos,
No, not a rant. Not yet, anyway.

so it's not much of a leap to say that, if andy wins, that the victory is a hair less convincing since he was spotted 1:30 by AC from the start. doesn't mean it isn't a good win, just means it's a win against a weakened field.

...

lastly, had Cuddles come to the Tour in the kind of shape to win, never had a cracked day and was 4th after doing a tough Giro beforehand, i'm guessing when the flak flew about him not winning, you'd have been fine had someone said "well, he had a giro in his legs already so you could understand the missing firepower."

So I did get your original logic right. My criticism of your original point is, no-one plays down Contador's wins because Cadel had a crap team when lost by 23 secs, or when he crashed out last year and did the Giro beforehand, when Andy slips a chain (which was his fault - bad shifting) etc? But you're starting to downplay any potential win by Andy or Cadel over Contador because he did the Giro, crashed, had an average TTT. That's cycling. You can't always choose the way you get to the Tour, or what happens in it.

 

[Angliru]

They can both handle the pressure. I think Andy has more pressure though. Cadel will be plotting something and trying to not expend energy. Andy has to try race to win. Contador however if he loses shall be in the media's spotlight shown to be beat by Andy, the world will go ballistic. The rationallity that he had a hard Giro will be lost. Also that prospect must make him afraid as his form/ wining ways might go down after a setback. If he had no desire to ride the TDF with an impending hearing he shouldn't have. However since he is riding it there is pressure that he has put upon himself.

This is not to say that Contador isn't under pressure. If I didn't say that in my original post I was in error. Contador was skeptical about doing the Tour after he did some type of test and wasn't happy with the results. Riis convinced him to give it a try. Riis I believe is more confident in Contador's ability to still win the Tour than Contador himself or that is the impression he conveys publicly to show confidence in his rider. At no time has Contador's shown confidence that he can win the Tour, only that he looks forward to the challenge of competition and that he will see how things go being that this is definitely uncharted waters for him.

i'm sure their sponsor likely put a bit of pressure on Riis to convince Contador to compete in the Tour for obvious reasons. That alone is pressure in itself.
It of course is understood that the decision to do the Giro was primarily made as a backup plan in case Contador was not allowed to race the Tour. The fact that Riis had previously talked up Contador doing the triple I don't think this was the ideal circumstances to attempt it.

 

[lostincosmos]

I appreciate the stream-of-consciousness literary movement as much as the next guy, but using an occasional capital letter to indicate the start of a sentence won't kill you.

You're right. It wouldn't kill me. Neither would reading posts without them?

/iPhone does it for me.

 

[cawright1375]

I just read that article on Velonews.com and found Yates' insight to be spot on. However, I do feel that AC does have a bit of pressure on him to try and do the double. Had Saxo Bank not already gone out and stated that that was an objective (and I could be mistaken on this point) then 100% of the pressure would rest on Andy after the statements he has made in the last year.

Now that being said as long as Frank is in the race, I doubt Andy will win. How often have we seen Andy attack only to look back for his brother and then sit up and wait. When AC has attacked, he has looked a bit the worse for wear. Could it be a ploy or could the Giro have taken a lot out of him? Whatever the case, that he (AC) has to now attack should make the race exciting this year and hopefully we won't have another finish like the Tourmalet last year.

As for Cadel, I do think at this point, it is his tour to lose. He's finished under a minute to AC & Sastre before. If it comes down to the final TT between him and Andy, all bets are off - Cadel wins.

Regardless AC's loss of time whatever the final outcome will make the overall race that more exciting.

 

[GPlataniotis]

Cuddles simply CANNOT climb. He simply doesn't have a burst. Watching him climb is painful as he just doesn't have that top gear like AC does to break apart from the pack. Sure he has shown that he is good at the short quick burst climbs (much like the classics), but that has been evident throughout the last few seasons. He has, and will never be able to climb with AC once the big mountains come. He'll lose minutes and at best is a contender for runner up.

Despite AC's issues thus far, stage 12 will tell us everything we need to know about his form. If he is 75-80% of his Giro form, it's another Yellow for him for sure as he is better than AS and CE at TT's, and he is the best climber.

Once week one is over, we will sort out the true contenders and the pretenders. AS has a very strong team and I actually think FS is in better shape this season than his little brother. We'll see.

My hope is that Horner has the same form as the TOC, always liked him as a rider and he is about the nicest guy in the whole peleton.

 

[dlwssonic]

Cuddles simply CANNOT climb. he has no burst. Watching him climb is painful as he just doesn't have that top gear like AC does to break apart from the pack. Sure he has shown that he is good at the short quick burst climbs (much like the classics), but that has been evident throughout the last few seasons. He has, and will never be able to climb with AC once the big mountains come. He'll lose minutes and at best is a contender for runner up.

Despite AC's issues thus far, stage 12 will tell us everything we need to know about his form. If he is 75-80% of his Giro form, it's another Yellow for him for sure as he is better than AS and CE at TT's, and he is the best climber.

Once week one is over, we will sort out the true contenders and the pretenders. AS has a very strong team and I actually think FS is in better shape this season than his little brother. We'll see.

My hope is that Horner has the same form as the TOC, always liked him as a rider and he is about the nicest guy in the whole peleton.

Noo you spoiled the entire posts!!!

 

[Parrulo]

Noo you spoiled the entire posts!!!

indeed my opinion on horner remains. horner winning the tour at 39 and looking at his past as a cyclists (always a domestic never good enough to be a leader) would be the biggest prof that something is still very very wrong with cycling.

 

[dlwssonic]

indeed my opinion on horner remains. horner winning the tour at 39 and looking at his past as a cyclists (always a domestic never good enough to be a leader) would be the biggest prof that something is still very very wrong with cycling.

nevermine horner will never win the tour. But oh WAIT!! he is the 2nd best climber. he will probably beat a tired contador!!!

 

[goggalor]

Horner won't win, he can't climb.

 

[erader]

>>At no time has Contador's shown confidence that he can win the Tour, only that he looks forward to the challenge of competition and that he will see how things go being that this is definitely uncharted waters for him.<<

wha? just defending his tour title after winning the giro shows supreme confidence. remember he's never lost a GT.
also, after the tour last year contador talked about winning all three GTs in a year.

i know some of you think contador is a mousy little guy that doesn't understand tactics or have self-confidence but the record speaks for itself. don't be surprised to see AC open a can of kick culo next week.

rodent-boy, on the other hand, had better win after all the smack talk and betraying his team last year.

erader

 

[movingtarget]

Most of the so called experts have already written off Evans as a contender so why would he be feeling the pressure ? Contador is the one who wants to prove he can do the Giro/Tour double. Schleck and Evans will never be in a better position at this stage of a grand tour to beat Contador.

I would say at this point Schleck expects he should win the race while Contador thinks he has to win the race because that's the sort of rider he is. While Evans only has to take it day by day without the expectations of the other two. I don't think Evans is under any illusions of what it will take to win the race.

 

[just some guy]

Most of the so called experts have already written off Evans as a contender so why would he be feeling the pressure ? Contador is the one who wants to prove he can do the Giro/Tour double. Schleck and Evans will never be in a better position at this stage of a grand tour to beat Contador.

I would say at this point Schleck expects he should win the race while Contador thinks he has to win the race because that's the sort of rider he is. While Evans only has to take it day by day without the expectations of the other two. I don't think Evans is under any illusions of what it will take to win the race.

Andy expects to win here I agree, but he will also try to get Fränk in 2nd or 3rd and this will play into everyone's hands.

PS Evans can climb but not as well as the top 3-4 riders but in the top 4-10 at the Tour.He needs to ride smart and hopefully for him get some time on guys on Saturday.

 

[SiAp1984]

There is not much pressure on AC, I guess. Only a few months ago, nobody expected him to race this tour because of his habit "to win races in the hotel" (just a quote )and I guess his motivation is not at highest level, because he already has won the Giro this year and he knows he might well lose a 2011 Tour title as well as last year's Tour victory (and his Giro) soon, so why should he bother... I guess, he is racing only because Riis wanted him to do so.

Cadel is in a quite comfortable position. Due to all of his bad luck and/or bad form in the past, nobody expects him to actually win a GT. He can take it day by day and use his endurance and routine to try the impossible. He would make a great winner of the 2011 Tour for sure...

Andy Schleck, on the other hand, is clearly under serious pressure. No results this year, damn strong team, already huge gap to AC etc. I am not sure if he knows his form himself. In the mountains, everything is possible for him from being dropped at the very foot of the final climb to easily dropping everybody including AC like he did last year just before chaingate.

We will see...