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Isaac Del Toro thread

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proffate

proffate

Jul 10, 2012
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ingsve said:
Ya, they need to start by sharing around the TV money because that is really the only income the sport has other than sponsorships.
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I don't see how that would solve the problem here.. TV revenue sharing is peanuts next to oil money. You know, that stuff that gives madmen the means to build a giant glass city in the middle of a desert.

If the UCI tried to implement some sort of redistribution of wealth such as a luxury tax then the oil sheikhs would probably just take their toys and go home (what fun is it to play a game you can lose?). I doubt the UCI values the sanctity of sport sufficiently to risk interfering with the firehose of money pointed in their general vicinity.
 
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ingsve

ingsve

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proffate said:
I don't see how that would solve the problem here.. TV revenue sharing is peanuts next to oil money. You know, that stuff that gives madmen the means to build a giant glass city in the middle of a desert.

If the UCI tried to implement some sort of redistribution of wealth such as a luxury tax then the oil sheikhs would probably just take their toys and go home (what fun is it to play a game you can lose?). I doubt the UCI values the sanctity of sport sufficiently to risk interfering with the firehose of money pointed in their general vicinity.
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I didn't say it would solve the UAE dominance but it would certainly help the situation for many teams. If teams are not reliant entirely on coorporate sponsorships for their entire budget it would mean that more companies could afford to sponsor a team. Essentially it would be cheaper for sponsors whithout it affecting the overall budget of the team.
 
Netserk

Netserk

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ingsve said:
I didn't say it would solve the UAE dominance but it would certainly help the situation for many teams. If teams are not reliant entirely on coorporate sponsorships for their entire budget it would mean that more companies could afford to sponsor a team. Essentially it would be cheaper for sponsors whithout it affecting the overall budget of the team.
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It gets priced in, so it mostly means that wages will rise even faster.
 
A

Anderis

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Yeah, TV money would probably help with stability of the teams but I'm not sure it would help with spreading the talent among a bigger number of teams. You would need to pay all the teams equally but that's usually not what happens when such structure gets established.

In F1 in the early 2010's, first team in the championship was getting like $100m and 10th team was getting like $30m and 11th team was getting nothing. Atop of that, some teams were getting dozens of millions regardless of their position in the championship, including a horrendous $100m bonus for Ferrari for just showing up. So this system was actually making performance differences bigger between top and bottom teams and it made everyone who wasn't finishing inside top10 bankrupt (and the sport has been permanently left with 10 teams, even though the rules state there's place for 13 teams). Moreover, as the financial model of F1 improved later, the remaining 10 teams started to lobby against new entrants, because that would mean the TV money would need to be shared among a bigger number of teams and each of the established teams would end up receiving less money.

Such changes need to be introduced with caution because the participants like to pull strings in their favour and some teams have a bigger sway than the others and they often try to establish systemic inequalities that benefit them over the other competitors.
 
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ingsve

ingsve

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Anderis said:
Yeah, TV money would probably help with stability of the teams but I'm not sure it would help with spreading the talent among a bigger number of teams. You would need to pay all the teams equally but that's usually not what happens when such structure gets established.

In F1 in the early 2010's, first team in the championship was getting like $100m and 10th team was getting like $30m and 11th team was getting nothing. Atop of that, some teams were getting dozens of millions regardless of their position in the championship, including a horrendous $100m bonus for Ferrari for just showing up. So this system was actually making performance differences bigger between top and bottom teams and it made everyone who wasn't finishing inside top10 bankrupt (and the sport has been permanently left with 10 teams, even though the rules state there's place for 13 teams). Moreover, as the financial model of F1 improved later, the remaining 10 teams started to lobby against new entrants, because that would mean the TV money would need to be shared among a bigger number of teams and each of the established teams would end up receiving less money.

Such changes need to be introduced with caution because the participants like to pull strings in their favour and some teams have a bigger sway than the others and they often try to establish systemic inequalities that benefit them over the other competitors.
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Certainly you need to make sure it's a fair system so that you don't just end up giving extra subsidies to billionaires. The Premier League system seems a bit better than F1 at least. In 22/23 the top team for $210m and the 20th team got $159m with the main difference I believe being what days the team played. If you play a lot on Saturday at 1500 UK time when there is a media blackout then you'd earn less for example.

I could see a system that divides the TV money in cycling based on the races a team participates in for example unless it would be better with a model that spreads the wealth out even more evenly than that.
 
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Unchained

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Anderis said:
Yeah, TV money would probably help with stability of the teams but I'm not sure it would help with spreading the talent among a bigger number of teams. You would need to pay all the teams equally but that's usually not what happens when such structure gets established.

In F1 in the early 2010's, first team in the championship was getting like $100m and 10th team was getting like $30m and 11th team was getting nothing. Atop of that, some teams were getting dozens of millions regardless of their position in the championship, including a horrendous $100m bonus for Ferrari for just showing up. So this system was actually making performance differences bigger between top and bottom teams and it made everyone who wasn't finishing inside top10 bankrupt (and the sport has been permanently left with 10 teams, even though the rules state there's place for 13 teams). Moreover, as the financial model of F1 improved later, the remaining 10 teams started to lobby against new entrants, because that would mean the TV money would need to be shared among a bigger number of teams and each of the established teams would end up receiving less money.

Such changes need to be introduced with caution because the participants like to pull strings in their favour and some teams have a bigger sway than the others and they often try to establish systemic inequalities that benefit them over the other competitors.
Click to expand...
Weird.. F1? Premier League? Are we talking about the same sports? Cycling is obviously different for in your face reasons, F1 in Las Vegas had starting ticket prices of @$106 dollars a person. Premier League games also expensive w often parking and concessions inside stadium racking up millions.. And both sports have event and non event merchandise sales in the 10s of millions. TV revenue in every direction w networks fighting for the right to broadcast the events..
Cycling.. It's generally free, the format often has you see a few seconds of action depending on where you view the race live in person. My first TDF had the bunch going by at 30mph and I couldn't pick out my favorites because it was zipping by..
Never seen a school boy or girl wearing favorite cycling team jersey to school or out and about, maybe shopping.
Race series and TV are the only answer for bike racing and all the other sports people have used here to compare to bike racing have accumulated points or victory type championships, some w playoffs .
There is something to be said about seeing all the best race,compete against each other and bike racing can't figure it out!!
 
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Gratemans

Gratemans

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Unchained said:
Weird.. F1? Premier League? Are we talking about the same sports? Cycling is obviously different for in your face reasons, F1 in Las Vegas had starting ticket prices of @$106 dollars a person. Premier League games also expensive w often parking and concessions inside stadium racking up millions.. And both sports have event and non event merchandise sales in the 10s of millions. TV revenue in every direction w networks fighting for the right to broadcast the events..
Cycling.. It's generally free, the format often has you see a few seconds of action depending on where you view the race live in person. My first TDF had the bunch going by at 30mph and I couldn't pick out my favorites because it was zipping by..
Never seen a school boy or girl wearing favorite cycling team jersey to school or out and about, maybe shopping.
Race series and TV are the only answer for bike racing and all the other sports people have used here to compare to bike racing have accumulated points or victory type championships, some w playoffs .
There is something to be said about seeing all the best race,compete against each other and bike racing can't figure it out!!
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This.
"TV money could help".
Lol. What tv money?

Some people assume that sports automatically means loads of TV money. Football, F1, tennis.. they all bring in vastly more money. Cycling is nothing in comparison. About what, 80 million yearly? That's completely insignificant compared to other sports.

The money it does bring in goes to ASO and smaller race organisers. Take away money from the organisers and suddenly a lot of classics are gone.
ASO might be fine but organising the races they do doesn't come cheap either.
 
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Landeirovic

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hayneplane said:
Nothing listed on his schedule now for future races on PCS. Would think a short break now and join the Tour squad on altitude camp would be good with a Vuelta build up schedule of Castilla Leon, Vuelta Burgos, Classica San Sebastián and a plan to go to the Vuelta Espana if he is showing good shape at that point in the year.
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I would let him do the Mexican championship. then Austria, Czech , Burgos and then Italian classics. next year's Vuelta
 
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Unchained

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Landeirovic said:
I would let him do the Mexican championship. then Austria, Czech , Burgos and then Italian classics. next year's Vuelta
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This years Mexican championship will be great, Del Toro and riders coming from Gila and other North American races and lots of guys in good form.
UAE really spreading it around in Del Toro GC win w 3 different riders getting a stage and Isaac overall!! Fantastic results.
 
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