Teams & Riders Israel Premier Tech

[AmRacer]

I’d argue that believing there weren’t tacks thrown, without any supporting evidence, is also speculation. Just to keep the logic consistent….

I think it makes more sense to say, “I’ll believe the claims of tacks when I see the evidence”, rather than “I haven’t seen any evidence, so I believe it didn’t happen”.

Positive claims, burden of proof and all that.

The logical stance is not to believe a claim until I see convincing evidence for a claim. What you bring up is a good point. I also haven’t seen evidence for the tacks story, so I don’t accept the claims either. Convincing evidence could change that position.


I think you might be stretching the definition of “hate crime”…juuuuust a tad. 😉

If the Vuelta would be suspended, I sure would hate it.

 

[red_flanders]

I was merely pointing out that I had heard no one reporting on tacks or any riders in interviews saying anything about tacks yet Red Rick was stating it like it was fact. The only mention of it that I heard was either Bob or Christian speculating about it when Vingo got his flat along with a couple of others in short order, and the other of the two responding by pointing out that it had just started to rain and that sometimes washes grit onto the road that can cause punctures.

I hear ya. My point was in no way to say it happened, purely a logic/semantics commentary.

 

[Netserk]

I was merely pointing out that I had heard no one reporting on tacks or any riders in interviews saying anything about tacks yet Red Rick was stating it like it was fact.

Gregaard and Haig have said to different media that there were tacks.

 

[Rou]

"The Vuelta’s image has suffered badly" – Jan Ullrich and Rick Zabel say Israel - Premier Tech’s continuation shows lack of backbone from race organisers

Jan Ullrich and Rick Zabel have delivered a scathing assessment of how the Vuelta a Espana has handled the escalating pro-Palestinian protests that have disrupted this year’s race, warning that the ev...

cyclinguptodate.com

Ulrich and Zabel blaming the Vuelta organizers for not having a 'backbone' to kick out IPT from the race.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Ulrich and Zabel blaming the Vuelta organizers for not having a 'backbone' to kick out IPT from the race.

This is ultimately the decision UCI has to make, not organiser and not the riders.

 

[Red Rick]

"The Vuelta’s image has suffered badly" – Jan Ullrich and Rick Zabel say Israel - Premier Tech’s continuation shows lack of backbone from race organisers

Jan Ullrich and Rick Zabel have delivered a scathing assessment of how the Vuelta a Espana has handled the escalating pro-Palestinian protests that have disrupted this year’s race, warning that the ev...

cyclinguptodate.com

Ulrich and Zabel blaming the Vuelta organizers for not having a 'backbone' to kick out IPT from the race.

Unlike every other race, where IPT has shown up and raced.

Also, that's extremely funny coming from Rick Zabel

 

[pastronef]

UCI can't kick out a team

 

[CyclistAbi]

UCI can't kick out a team

Did you mean organiser?

 

[pastronef]

Did you mean organiser?

ASO-UNIPUBLIC? maybe, teams were kicked out for breaking actual racing rules in the past

 

[CyclistAbi]

ASO-UNIPUBLIC? maybe, teams were kicked out for breaking actual racing rules in the past

No, it's UCI in this case. Vuelta organiser actually called them out publicly, to allow them to do it. UCI and AFAIK publicly only condemned the protestors and that was it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

"The Vuelta’s image has suffered badly" – Jan Ullrich and Rick Zabel say Israel - Premier Tech’s continuation shows lack of backbone from race organisers

Jan Ullrich and Rick Zabel have delivered a scathing assessment of how the Vuelta a Espana has handled the escalating pro-Palestinian protests that have disrupted this year’s race, warning that the ev...

cyclinguptodate.com

Ulrich and Zabel blaming the Vuelta organizers for not having a 'backbone' to kick out IPT from the race.

I find that to be a difficult situation really. After all, the organisers' hands were tied in respect of the invites by the UCI's rules. At another time, before the most recent points system and the compulsory wildcard thing was introduced, it would have been fairly straightforward; Unipublic would just not have invited IPT, or would have retracted their invite when they caught wind of the likelihood of protest and replaced them with a team with a less contentious sponsor. Late changes to invites have happened in reasonably recent past - Astana being added to the 2008 Giro, at the expense of NGC Medical, just a week before the start; Fuji-Servetto got added to the 2009 Giro late on in April, and Ceramica Flaminia were originally slated to be invited before Lance Armstrong held RCS to ransom over the fact Filippo Simeoni would be riding for them; and BMC being un-invited from Dwars door Vlaanderen at the eleventh hour in 2010 for reneging on an agreement to send some of their big name riders; both times those teams were replaced by Xacobeo-Galicia, known of course for their extensive results racing in the Northern Classics and the Italian spring...

Sylvain Adams has also previously threatened to sue the UCI over losing invites when his team got relegated. The oxymoronic "mandatory wildcard" rule was in fact already on the books before this albeit in a slightly modified form, but Adams' team facing relegation taking away the certainty of their spot at the top table was enough for him to threaten litigation, and the UCI backed down and so here we are with this awkward system whereby the UCI has made it mandatory for the Vuelta to invite a team that they know is going to create a headache for them, with no mechanism by which to avoid the problem without inviting both a lawsuit from IPT and contractual breach issues with the UCI.

This would have applied whether they made the change before or during the race, and obviously they have tried to avoid the situation by asking the team if they wouldn't mind leaving, but of course the team then are under no obligation to leave no matter how much the organisers may have stressed that it would really be best for all concerned for them to do so. Obviously the riders in the race are in a difficult position, and certainly it isn't made any easier by Adams' doubling and trebling down on his position over the last couple of seasons in the face of other protests.

 

[the delgados]

Come on, were you born yesterday? It didn't take a psychic to predict that riding with "Israel" on your jersey would be deemed somewhat controversial at some point. Like signing for Zenith Saint Petersburg a few years ago... you can do it but you know there will be trouble.

Unlike every other race, where IPT has shown up and raced.

Also, that's extremely funny coming from Rick Zabel

I don't get the Zabel reference and why it made you laugh.
I do get your point about IPT showing up and racing at other events, which just highlights the lack of cohesion or protocol of UCI and race organizers. I don't know what's going on in the minds of these people, but surely there have been conversations about what to do.
The fact nothing has been done -- i.e. throw the team out of the Vuelta and every other race -- is the part I don't understand. Obviously pressure is being applied on UCI authorities to try and sweep this issue under the rug.
Good thing is it's not working.

 

[Izzyeviel]

well the problem is you need a good valid reason for banning a team. Not liking the actions of a government isn't enough, otherwise we'd be left with just Ineos, Movistar, & Intermache-Lotto

 

[hayneplane]

I don't get the Zabel reference and why it made you laugh.
I do get your point about IPT showing up and racing at other events, which just highlights the lack of cohesion or protocol of UCI and race organizers. I don't know what's going on in the minds of these people, but surely there have been conversations about what to do.
The fact nothing has been done -- i.e. throw the team out of the Vuelta and every other race -- is the part I don't understand. Obviously pressure is being applied on UCI authorities to try and sweep this issue under the rug.
Good thing is it's not working.

The Rick Zabel reference would be him having ridden the last 4 and a half years of his career with the Israel team.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

well the problem is you need a good valid reason for banning a team. Not liking the actions of a government isn't enough, otherwise we'd be left with just Ineos, Movistar, & Intermache-Lotto

For banning a team, sure. But for uninviting a team... less so in the old system. Like I say, NGC got their invite to the Giro pulled a week before the start to make room for Astana.

I mean, under the old system pre-mandatory wildcards, who's to say it would even really have been that big of a deal if IPT just weren't invited at all? Adams may have gone off in the media about the snub, but if he was simply a wildcard invitational team, it would have been the same as Rick Delaney throwing his toys out the pram. Hell, the Vuelta chose not to invite Radioshack back in 2010 despite their ProTour status, and Bruyneel's exhortations that this was unfair (because it was basically the consolation prize he'd offered to riders outside the Lance circle) were largely scoffed at at the time.

However, with the current rules enforcing first refusal to IPT, Unipublic essentially must invite them, or they will be either threatened with a lawsuit by Adams, face sanction from the sport's governing body for breaching the invitation rules, or both. Any action taken now is Sophie's Choice. They know that they're walking headlong into a storm and that the outcome will be bad for them, but they're powerless to prevent it.

 

[Izzyeviel]

yup.

Have wildcards ever not caused problems & upsets?

 

[Lequack]

Worst team ever. Not just because of this Vuelta crap, but literally bad results and I don't think anyone would notice if they folded. It seems like the whole team just was designed to give Froome and other rider a quiet place to retire.

 

[Samamba]

Worst team ever. Not just because of this Vuelta crap, but literally bad results and I don't think anyone would notice if they folded. It seems like the whole team just was designed to give Froome and other rider a quiet place to retire.

Pretty weird statement ngl. They have scored the 7th hightest amount of UCI points this Vuelta, have been on the podium like 4 times (including 3 times 2nd) and have a young guy in 6th in GC. All that while being threatened, shouted at, and hated by a lot of people. You can say a lot but not that they are having a bad Vuelta. Nor can you say they are "the worst team ever". Their 2025 has been pretty meeh imo but they did also get 4th in the Giro. If I remember correctly they won Fleche Wallonne and Down Under with Williams last year, In 2023 Woods won in the Tour and they had that Gee super Giro.

Sure, no one would miss them (well apart from all the people who would lose their job yk...), but that counts for almost every single team, and saying they are the worst team ever or are still just a retirement team does not make sense at all, and hasn't for like 3 years.

I you would say that it's a team that has made one of even some of the worst transfers in recent times, I agree of course.

 

[the delgados]

Worst team ever. Not just because of this Vuelta crap, but literally bad results and I don't think anyone would notice if they folded. It seems like the whole team just was designed to give Froome and other rider a quiet place to retire.

Hey, wait! They recruited and groomed the Canadian sensation Derek Gee!
Or at least they did before he decided to bounce.

 

[Brullnux]

kicking out a team for this, quite frankly, is a signal of cowardice. just leave politics outside of sport.

If only Sylvan Adams was told this

 

[aruipksni]

Worst team ever. Not just because of this Vuelta crap, but literally bad results and I don't think anyone would notice if they folded. It seems like the whole team just was designed to give Froome and other rider a quiet place to retire.

if you look at their ranking - they are 14 place right now, so there are much worst teams then them.
in reality except alpacim, all the team results are per their budgets.
indeed Froome did froome this team, and i believe the team learned it lessons, and if you look at the expected average ages of the team for next year you will see that it is going to be quite young. if the team fold 180 people will lose their income, but you really don't seem to care about it

 

[aruipksni]

i don't want to sound very gloomy about the future , but as things are heading now , then 20 years for now the only bike events you will watch in Europe, are going to be of your local fat bike gang parades.

 

[CyclistAbi]

i don't want to sound very gloomy about the future , but as things are heading now , then 20 years for now the only bike events you will watch in Europe, are going to be of your local fat bike gang parades.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[pastronef]

i don't want to sound very gloomy about the future , but as things are heading now , then 20 years for now the only bike events you will watch in Europe, are going to be of your local fat bike gang parades.

well it'll mean Europe has collapsed for good. ffs

 

[SafeBet]

Hey, wait! They recruited and groomed the Canadian sensation Derek Gee!
Or at least they did before he decided to bounce.

They also recruited and groomed Matthew Riccitello, Marco Frigo, Joe Blackmore, Riley Sheehan and Corbin Strong.
I actually struggle to find many WT / Pro teams with a better track record in developing young riders when you account for their budget and their limited access to the top talents among juniors and u23 riders.