Ivan Sosa discussion thread

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My understanding is a few days ago UCI confirmed Trek's verbal agreement with Sosa as legal despite it not signed, but Sosa has now rejected it anyway, which he can legally do assuming Sky will pay the UCI fine, so he can reject it I assume?
 
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RedheadDane said:
Wherever he ends up, I hope it's somewhere he actually wants to be, and not somewhere he feels pressured to be because of this whole mess.
I think that ship has sailed. If he ends up at TREK, he'll feel pressured, legally obligated. If he joins Sky, i'm pretty sure he isn't doing it because it's the worlds warmest team or best for his development, but because he thinks it's the "best" option financially and the feeling he "needs" to do this for his financial future.
 
Then maybe he needs to just stay at Androni.
Stay with what he knows, and let things cool down a little. He's young, he can try for a WT contract for the 2020 season.

Yeah, that was a reply to Logic's post. Stop ninjaing me!
 
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RedheadDane said:
Then maybe he needs to just stay at Androni.
Stay with what he knows, and let things cool down a little. He's young, he can try for a WT contract for the 2020 season.

Yeah, that was a reply to Logic's post. Stop ninjaing me!

Not going to happen

Sosa has a long way to go to get my support.
 
Re:

RedheadDane said:
Then maybe he needs to just stay at Androni.
Stay with what he knows, and let things cool down a little. He's young, he can try for a WT contract for the 2020 season.

Yeah, that was a reply to Logic's post. Stop ninjaing me!

Apparently it's too late for that. The UCI has no power other than to fine the rider if in fact there was a signed contract. This would be an opportune moment to start making changes in how to prevent situations such as this otherwise any team with an unfair advantage in the depth of their pockets can simply snatch any rider they desire, pay the rider's fine and stack their lineup with all the top tier talent. Riders ambitions will be compromised for the sake of financial security. Some type of arbitration should be taking place to control what is ethical and what is not. Rider signs contract. A better offer arises after-the-fact and rider makes agreement with new team making better offer to pay the fine in order to guarantee rider jumps ship. It shouldn't be that easy.
 
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RedheadDane said:
Surely he did definitely want to join Trek at first…

If this wasn't just a rumour but fact, initially he also said that he didn't want to ride for Sky because it would limit his immediate opportunities. It appears they persuaded him monetarily and with the promise that he wouldn't be solely riding in support of others.
 
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Angliru said:
RedheadDane said:
Then maybe he needs to just stay at Androni.
Stay with what he knows, and let things cool down a little. He's young, he can try for a WT contract for the 2020 season.

Yeah, that was a reply to Logic's post. Stop ninjaing me!

Apparently it's too late for that. The UCI has no power other than to fine the rider if in fact there was a signed contract. This would be an opportune moment to start making changes in how to prevent situations such as this otherwise any team with an unfair advantage in the depth of their pockets can simply snatch any rider they desire, pay the rider's fine and stack their lineup with all the top tier talent. Riders ambitions will be compromised for the sake of financial security. Some type of arbitration should be taking place to control what is ethical and what is not. Rider signs contract. A better offer arises after-the-fact and rider makes agreement with new team making better offer to pay the fine in order to guarantee rider jumps ship. It shouldn't be that easy.
In the cyclingnews article a couple days ago there was a mention that the clause in his contract that would allow him to move to a WT team was only valid until July 31st, and that as a result if he rejects the Trek offer he may be forced to honor his contract with Androni for another year.
 
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LaFlorecita said:
Angliru said:
RedheadDane said:
Then maybe he needs to just stay at Androni.
Stay with what he knows, and let things cool down a little. He's young, he can try for a WT contract for the 2020 season.

Yeah, that was a reply to Logic's post. Stop ninjaing me!

Apparently it's too late for that. The UCI has no power other than to fine the rider if in fact there was a signed contract. This would be an opportune moment to start making changes in how to prevent situations such as this otherwise any team with an unfair advantage in the depth of their pockets can simply snatch any rider they desire, pay the rider's fine and stack their lineup with all the top tier talent. Riders ambitions will be compromised for the sake of financial security. Some type of arbitration should be taking place to control what is ethical and what is not. Rider signs contract. A better offer arises after-the-fact and rider makes agreement with new team making better offer to pay the fine in order to guarantee rider jumps ship. It shouldn't be that easy.
In the cyclingnews article a couple days ago there was a mention that the clause in his contract that would allow him to move to a WT team was only valid until July 31st, and that as a result if he rejects the Trek offer he may be forced to honor his contract with Androni for another year.
Who's gonna enforce that?
 
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Red Rick said:
LaFlorecita said:
Angliru said:
RedheadDane said:
Then maybe he needs to just stay at Androni.
Stay with what he knows, and let things cool down a little. He's young, he can try for a WT contract for the 2020 season.

Yeah, that was a reply to Logic's post. Stop ninjaing me!

Apparently it's too late for that. The UCI has no power other than to fine the rider if in fact there was a signed contract. This would be an opportune moment to start making changes in how to prevent situations such as this otherwise any team with an unfair advantage in the depth of their pockets can simply snatch any rider they desire, pay the rider's fine and stack their lineup with all the top tier talent. Riders ambitions will be compromised for the sake of financial security. Some type of arbitration should be taking place to control what is ethical and what is not. Rider signs contract. A better offer arises after-the-fact and rider makes agreement with new team making better offer to pay the fine in order to guarantee rider jumps ship. It shouldn't be that easy.
In the cyclingnews article a couple days ago there was a mention that the clause in his contract that would allow him to move to a WT team was only valid until July 31st, and that as a result if he rejects the Trek offer he may be forced to honor his contract with Androni for another year.
Who's gonna enforce that?
The UCI if Trek or Sosa's previous managers decide to make a case of it.
 
The only source for the most recent CN article appears to be Acquadro. That doesn’t mean that it’s automatically wrong, but it’s not necessarily correct either. Pretty much any other team would be better news from a fan’s point of view.
 
If it continues like this it will only take a few more years until the top three of the tdf all come from one team. And I'm not even kidding. Sky seemingly has the financial capacity to every year sign the most promising gc rider. I'm just massively happy Evenepoel has signed for QS but then again, long way to go for him, as of now the potential hasn't been proven on the big stage.
 
Gigs_98 said:
If it continues like this it will only take a few more years until the top three of the tdf all come from one team. And I'm not even kidding. Sky seemingly has the financial capacity to every year sign the most promising gc rider. I'm just massively happy Evenepoel has signed for QS but then again, long way to go for him, as of now the potential hasn't been proven on the big stage.

The new Chinese team claim to have a bigger budget than Sky, so give it a few months and Sky might also be asking for a budget cap.
 
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rick james said:
Logic-is-your-friend said:
Time to introduce financial fair play in cycling.
why is that?
I won't pretend for even a second that the fact it's Sky doesn't play a part in people's negative response to this saga, but in return please don't pretend that a team with sufficient budget and clout that the team with the second biggest budget in cycling abandons its U23 development project because it can't stop its riders being stolen isn't a marketplace killer.

Cycling got by, you could argue rather archaically, for many years without football-style tapping up, contract buyouts and so on. Sky's contract wranglings and buyouts with Wiggins and Swift were one element of the end of that, GreenEdge were another with their tapping people up all the way from January. It might well be how it's done in football and not especially wrong per se, but there are quite a few marketplace killers in football too - Paris Saint-Germain, Bayern München, Manchester City, Real Madrid for a few, and their way of going about business is plenty unpopular among large sections of the fanbase too. While it's disappointing to see a single overpowered team buying up quality young talents like Bernal, or skimming off the cream of the U23 ranks like they did with the likes of Moscon and Sivakov, the way they - and the rider's advisors and agents, who are far more culpable than Sky for this saga - have gone about this Sosa transfer is another level of problematic from a competition point of view; if the richest teams are now at the stage where they can dangle carrots and pressure riders to break contracts or play up until they're allowed to leave (Dimitri Payet ring any bells?), and can afford to simply pay off any fine that comes for breaking those contracts as collateral for the purchase, then we are reaching the point that was why football needed the financial fair play regulations in the first place.

If Sosa had signed for Sky without the Trek diversion, then there'd still have been something of a negative response, sure, but it would have been the same as with the signings of Bernal, Sivakov and so on; a frustration that Sky are stockpiling all of the best young riders when fans would rather see them fighting against the seemingly unbeatable Sky machine rather than joining it, but not the feeling that there's anything wrong per se in how it's come about. The situation here with Trek and the UCI getting involved in arbitration and then ultimately being ignored or treated as irrelevant anyway because Sky can pay away any fine on the rider's behalf, however, has justifiably generated a more negative reaction because its implications are greater, and it reinforces the image many have of Sky as the big overpowered, amoral corporate bully, the Gordon Gekko of the pro péloton.
 
Technically, Sosa is currently still under contract with Androni, so it should be Savio who will have final say.
As I understand it, changing teams this year without Savio's consent was possible only if new team paid 120k to Savio before 31 July. The only team that did that was Trek. So Sosa can either accept Trek's offer, or has to seek additional Savio's consent with Sky. And I can imagine Savio will have no problem with Sky if they compensate him for all money due back to Trek plus some extra for the trouble and potential damages if claimed by Trek. If Savio says he will honor only Trek offer, Sosa has no way of going to Sky this year (unless he goes the WvA way).
 
GuyIncognito said:
Gigs_98 said:
If it continues like this it will only take a few more years until the top three of the tdf all come from one team. And I'm not even kidding. Sky seemingly has the financial capacity to every year sign the most promising gc rider. I'm just massively happy Evenepoel has signed for QS but then again, long way to go for him, as of now the potential hasn't been proven on the big stage.

The new Chinese team claim to have a bigger budget than Sky, so give it a few months and Sky might also be asking for a budget cap.
A big budget doesn't always translate to a good team though. I think Katusha were said to have a bigger budget than Sky at some point, and I think Bahrain or UAE as well, but UAE generally sucks, they at least underperform relative to their budget, while Sunweb are doing exceedingly well.
 
Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
rick james said:
Logic-is-your-friend said:
Time to introduce financial fair play in cycling.
why is that?
I won't pretend for even a second that the fact it's Sky doesn't play a part in people's negative response to this saga, but in return please don't pretend that a team with sufficient budget and clout that the team with the second biggest budget in cycling abandons its U23 development project because it can't stop its riders being stolen isn't a marketplace killer.

Cycling got by, you could argue rather archaically, for many years without football-style tapping up, contract buyouts and so on. Sky's contract wranglings and buyouts with Wiggins and Swift were one element of the end of that, GreenEdge were another with their tapping people up all the way from January. It might well be how it's done in football and not especially wrong per se, but there are quite a few marketplace killers in football too - Paris Saint-Germain, Bayern München, Manchester City, Real Madrid for a few, and their way of going about business is plenty unpopular among large sections of the fanbase too. While it's disappointing to see a single overpowered team buying up quality young talents like Bernal, or skimming off the cream of the U23 ranks like they did with the likes of Moscon and Sivakov, the way they - and the rider's advisors and agents, who are far more culpable than Sky for this saga - have gone about this Sosa transfer is another level of problematic from a competition point of view; if the richest teams are now at the stage where they can dangle carrots and pressure riders to break contracts or play up until they're allowed to leave (Dimitri Payet ring any bells?), and can afford to simply pay off any fine that comes for breaking those contracts as collateral for the purchase, then we are reaching the point that was why football needed the financial fair play regulations in the first place.

If Sosa had signed for Sky without the Trek diversion, then there'd still have been something of a negative response, sure, but it would have been the same as with the signings of Bernal, Sivakov and so on; a frustration that Sky are stockpiling all of the best young riders when fans would rather see them fighting against the seemingly unbeatable Sky machine rather than joining it, but not the feeling that there's anything wrong per se in how it's come about. The situation here with Trek and the UCI getting involved in arbitration and then ultimately being ignored or treated as irrelevant anyway because Sky can pay away any fine on the rider's behalf, however, has justifiably generated a more negative reaction because its implications are greater, and it reinforces the image many have of Sky as the big overpowered, amoral corporate bully, the Gordon Gekko of the pro péloton.

All reasonable, but lets not kid ourselves, UCI getting involved is precisely because Trek never actually got Sosa's signature at the time, within the time they needed to get it. While no doubt, more money can change a man's mind what company he ends up working for, it can't un-sign a contract that should have been signed in the first place.