Ivan Sosa discussion thread

[luckyboy]

Bernal changed agents from Alberati to Acquadro last year too iirc

 

[luckyboy]

Would really be a disaster for cycling if he went to Sky as well as all the other young talents they have. The sport is becoming more like football with the hoarding of talent except we have Real Madrid, Barcelona and Manchester City all in one team.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

Weird story going on right now. Sosa has changed agents, from Paolo Alberatti to Giuseppe Acquadro, who is also an agent to tons of other Colombians. Acquadro is now trying to get him to Sky instead of Trek, since the contract with Trek was never signed by Sosa himself.

However, in my personal opinion, I think Acquadro is just trying to get some more money out of Trek, rather than trying to move him.

That Acquadro guy is cancerous. Get rid of him.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Would really be a disaster for cycling if he went to Sky as well as all the other young talents they have. The sport is becoming more like football with the hoarding of talent except we have Real Madrid, Barcelona and Manchester City all in one team.

That sounds like a bad situation all around. If it’s true, then Sosa either ends up at a team where he will be fighting with almost all of the other best young talents in the sport for leadership roles in the races that are left over after the big guns have had their pick or alternatively he ends up at Trek still but starting out with team management very annoyed with him. From the point of view of a fan of the sport, it would be even worse.

 

[staubsauger]

Re:

Weird story going on right now. Sosa has changed agents, from Paolo Alberatti to Giuseppe Acquadro, who is also an agent to tons of other Colombians. Acquadro is now trying to get him to Sky instead of Trek, since the contract with Trek was never signed by Sosa himself.

However, in my personal opinion, I think Acquadro is just trying to get some more money out of Trek, rather than trying to move him.

Isn't Acquadro the clown that ruined the career of Jose Rujano!?

I can only echo Alexandre's statement.

 

[Pippo_San]

https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/2018/09/21/1537522957/ivan-sosa-questa-A�-la-nostra-verita-angelini-alberati-fondriest-bianco-trek-guercilena-tuttobiciweb

Utterly bad and honestly unprofessional behavior from Sosa. Long story short, he was followed by Alberatti and Fondriest and they made him agree to an awesome contract with Trek (stating that initially it looked easier to follow Bernal to Sky but he didn't want to be a PLAN B in hierarchy). Then all of a sudden this Acquadro gets in, brainwash him somehow, and probably find a new team for him that will pay him more.
So it seems like Sosa literally spit on what he agreed to and to the people that followed him and cared for him.
Meh.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/2018/09/21/1537522957/ivan-sosa-questa-A�-la-nostra-verita-angelini-alberati-fondriest-bianco-trek-guercilena-tuttobiciweb

Utterly bad and honestly unprofessional behavior from Sosa. Long story short, he was followed by Alberatti and Fondriest and they made him agree to an awesome contract with Trek (stating that initially it looked easier to follow Bernal to Sky but he didn't want to be a PLAN B in hierarchy). Then all of a sudden this Acquadro gets in, brainwash him somehow, and probably find a new team for him that will pay him more.
So it seems like Sosa literally spit on what he agreed to and to the people that followed him and cared for him.
Meh.

I'm more inclined to believe that he is just young and being led astray by a less than scrupulous agent, with Sky swooping in to take advantage of the situation with their deeper wallets, showing no regard for what is proper and ethical, still pursuing their plans of world domination and adulation, not realizing that the two aren't actually compatible. Then they wonder why they are seen as the cycling equivalent of the Death Star. Que the Sky fans saying in unison: "It's all so unfair and all this hate is a conspiracy! Why?! Why aren't we loved by all?"

 

[Midnightfright]

Re: Re:

https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/2018/09/21/1537522957/ivan-sosa-questa-A�-la-nostra-verita-angelini-alberati-fondriest-bianco-trek-guercilena-tuttobiciweb

Utterly bad and honestly unprofessional behavior from Sosa. Long story short, he was followed by Alberatti and Fondriest and they made him agree to an awesome contract with Trek (stating that initially it looked easier to follow Bernal to Sky but he didn't want to be a PLAN B in hierarchy). Then all of a sudden this Acquadro gets in, brainwash him somehow, and probably find a new team for him that will pay him more.
So it seems like Sosa literally spit on what he agreed to and to the people that followed him and cared for him.
Meh.

I'm more inclined to believe that he is just young and being led astray by a less than scrupulous agent, with Sky swooping in to take advantage of the situation with their deeper wallets, showing no regard for what is proper and ethical, still pursuing their plans of world domination and adulation, not realizing that the two aren't actually compatible. Then they wonder why they are seen as the cycling equivalent of the Death Star. Que the Sky fans saying in unison: "It's all so unfair and all this hate is a conspiracy! Why?! Why aren't we loved by all?"

It's incredibly annoying that Sky can and do snap up all the best young riders but this strikes me as a bit of a stretch blaming Sosa on switching agents and dumping those who looked after him as a junior.

I was under the impression he hadn't actually signed for them yet. Is that right?

 

[Angliru]

Re:

https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/2018/09/21/1537522957/ivan-sosa-questa-A�-la-nostra-verita-angelini-alberati-fondriest-bianco-trek-guercilena-tuttobiciweb

Utterly bad and honestly unprofessional behavior from Sosa. Long story short, he was followed by Alberatti and Fondriest and they made him agree to an awesome contract with Trek (stating that initially it looked easier to follow Bernal to Sky but he didn't want to be a PLAN B in hierarchy). Then all of a sudden this Acquadro gets in, brainwash him somehow, and probably find a new team for him that will pay him more.
So it seems like Sosa literally spit on what he agreed to and to the people that followed him and cared for him.
Meh.

If a young rider is negatively influenced, "brainwashed" as you say, by an agent, how can you lay most of the blame on him for what transpires?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/2018/09/21/1537522957/ivan-sosa-questa-A�-la-nostra-verita-angelini-alberati-fondriest-bianco-trek-guercilena-tuttobiciweb

Utterly bad and honestly unprofessional behavior from Sosa. Long story short, he was followed by Alberatti and Fondriest and they made him agree to an awesome contract with Trek (stating that initially it looked easier to follow Bernal to Sky but he didn't want to be a PLAN B in hierarchy). Then all of a sudden this Acquadro gets in, brainwash him somehow, and probably find a new team for him that will pay him more.
So it seems like Sosa literally spit on what he agreed to and to the people that followed him and cared for him.
Meh.

If a young rider is negatively influenced, "brainwashed" as you say, by an agent, how can you lay most of the blame on him for what transpires?

Wait, we can't expect twenty-somethigns to think a little bit for themselves or have some principals?

 

[janraaskalt]

Re: Re:

We can't expect twenty-somethigns to think a little bit for themselves or have some principals

Why not? It's not difficult. Even six year olds know what a promise is.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

We can't expect twenty-somethigns to think a little bit for themselves or have some principals

Why not? It's not difficult. Even six year olds know what a promise is.

That was a badly failed attempt at a rhethorical question, sorry

 

[janraaskalt]

Re: Re:

We can't expect twenty-somethigns to think a little bit for themselves or have some principals

Why not? It's not difficult. Even six year olds know what a promise is.

That was a badly failed attempt at a rhethorical question, sorry

Facepalm (one of us )

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article/2018/09/21/1537522957/ivan-sosa-questa-A�-la-nostra-verita-angelini-alberati-fondriest-bianco-trek-guercilena-tuttobiciweb

Utterly bad and honestly unprofessional behavior from Sosa. Long story short, he was followed by Alberatti and Fondriest and they made him agree to an awesome contract with Trek (stating that initially it looked easier to follow Bernal to Sky but he didn't want to be a PLAN B in hierarchy). Then all of a sudden this Acquadro gets in, brainwash him somehow, and probably find a new team for him that will pay him more.
So it seems like Sosa literally spit on what he agreed to and to the people that followed him and cared for him.
Meh.

If a young rider is negatively influenced, "brainwashed" as you say, by an agent, how can you lay most of the blame on him for what transpires?

Wait, we can't expect twenty-somethigns to think a little bit for themselves or have some principals?

Shouldn't the same apply to the agent and the team that signed him knowing that he had already signed with someone else? Principles aren't just for riders. I would think that a team would prefer that any signing be without controversy and especially not be with potential ethical standards being breached.

 

[May0maniac]

I don't think that his plan really was to sign with Sky, the new manager probably convinced him that playing hard to get would get him a bigger contract.
Sky alreadyy have leaders for 3 gts (Thomas, Froome, Bernal) and guys who want to be the team leader in shorter stage races (Poels, De la Cruz, Kwait and the list goes on...).
It would be different if he was a neopro who mainly sees it as a learning experience or and older rider who wants a big salary without having the stress of being a team leader, but for someone in his position signing with Sky is probably not the ideal option.

 

[samhocking]

Savio gets a 'development fee' for discovering the rider and bringing him to a World Tour team 1 year before the riders contract finishes. This will be as much about what Savio gets out of the deal as the new agent and rider. Basically it's what happened to Bernal too. Savio gets a nice chunk of cash and going to Sky he probably gets a bigger chunk.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Savio gets a 'development fee' for discovering the rider and bringing him to a World Tour team 1 year before the riders contract finishes. This will be as much about what Savio gets out of the deal as the new agent and rider. Basically it's what happened to Bernal too. Savio gets a nice chunk of cash and going to Sky he probably gets a bigger chunk.

But Savio isn't involved in this mess at all.

 

[samhocking]

He is. Savio is the one that has to be paid to release the rider.

 

[Red Rick]

So we're moving closer to a football model where buying out contracts is to become the norm?

Cycling desperately needs a more sustainable business model, more than any other sport probably

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

He is. Savio is the one that has to be paid to release the rider.

But he's not involved in the contract mess whatsoever, he himself said he wasn't aware of Sosa ditching his Trek agreement until he heard about it from the media. You made it sound like it's in Savio's interest to send Sosa off to Sky while he has no real say in the matter, it's all Sosa and his manager.

 

[samhocking]

Savio is old school and makes money from young riders. What he does is have his scouts in Columbia find the next big rider, brings him over, and the riders signs a 'bonus for his development'. What that means is when the rider moves to another team, Savio receives a cash payment through the rider from the other team. That's basically how Savio makes his money on these young riders. For Bernal Sky paid Savio £35k I think it was. Not bad for 2 years signing a rider that's making you over £1k a month whatever. Sosa signed the same deal as Bernal as far as i know.

 

[janraaskalt]

Re: Re:

He is. Savio is the one that has to be paid to release the rider.

But he's not involved in the contract mess whatsoever, he himself said he wasn't aware of Sosa ditching his Trek agreement until he heard about it from the media. You made it sound like it's in Savio's interest to send Sosa off to Sky while he has no real say in the matter, it's all Sosa and his manager.

If Sosa doesn't sign a contract with Trek and Savio doesn't release him from his contract to sign for another team, Sosa will ride for Androni in 2019. If that doesn't make Savio involved?

Besides, maybe Sky is willing to pay Savio more than Trek was paying.

 

[janraaskalt]

Re:

So we're moving closer to a football model where buying out contracts is to become the norm?

Cycling desperately needs a more sustainable business model, more than any other sport probably

Savio is trying this. So far successfully, because the riders having gotten the long-term contracts were performing. One miss-hit and he's stuck to paying money for 4 years to a rider that is not performing and he's not getting any transfer compensation. Somehow this doesn't feel ike sustainable at all.

More sustainable would be if all teams have to pay (say) 30.000 dollars/euros/swiss francs for all neo pros, to the teams a rider was riding for the 2-3 years before (or split in case of multiple teams).

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

He is. Savio is the one that has to be paid to release the rider.

But he's not involved in the contract mess whatsoever, he himself said he wasn't aware of Sosa ditching his Trek agreement until he heard about it from the media. You made it sound like it's in Savio's interest to send Sosa off to Sky while he has no real say in the matter, it's all Sosa and his manager.

If Sosa doesn't sign a contract with Trek and Savio doesn't release him from his contract to sign for another team, Sosa will ride for Androni in 2019. If that doesn't make Savio involved?

Besides, maybe Sky is willing to pay Savio more than Trek was paying.

Yep, it's just pay to race flipped around. Now Savio was banned for pay to race, he's simply flipped it to 'pay to release' hidden as a development fee in the riders contract the next team pays, rather than the rider when signing.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

He is. Savio is the one that has to be paid to release the rider.

But he's not involved in the contract mess whatsoever, he himself said he wasn't aware of Sosa ditching his Trek agreement until he heard about it from the media. You made it sound like it's in Savio's interest to send Sosa off to Sky while he has no real say in the matter, it's all Sosa and his manager.

If Sosa doesn't sign a contract with Trek and Savio doesn't release him from his contract to sign for another team, Sosa will ride for Androni in 2019. If that doesn't make Savio involved?

Besides, maybe Sky is willing to pay Savio more than Trek was paying.

Just don't demonize Savio. He agreed to the Trek contract. Then the new manager came along that tore apart all existing agreements to get some more money out of the deal. I don't really blame Sosa either. It's that Acquadro guy that's playing dirty games.