Jan Ullrich

[Dr. Juice]

Ullrich's best year was neither 97 or 2003. It was CLEARLY 2001. Yet he was climbing a lot slower than in those two years. But that's the difference between 43% and 49%.
Ullrich's 2001 Tour might actually be one the greatest cycling performance ever. Sadly 99,99% of people will never understand that.

Why should Ullrich ride with 43% HCT when it's possible to have 49? Ullrich was at his best when he TTed better than Armstrong ( which he should have done in every Tour) - 2003 and 96-98 he was supreme in that category...in 2003 crushing Armstrong and in 96-98 crushing everybody by minutes.

You knew immediately that he wasn't at his best when he failed to gain more than 2 minutes on the likes of Beloki in a 50 km TT. But again - why should he stick to 43 HCT in 2001? I never heard of that.

EPO of second generation just came into the scene in 2000/2001 ( Aranesp etc)

 

[McLovin]

Bavarianrider is trying to suggest that Ullrich was clean in (2000 and) 2001. If that's true, I agree with him. Maybe a book from Jan will tell us.

 

[roundabout]

uh, why would he have ridden clean all of a sudden when he himself sees doping as a means of leveling the playing field

 

[mrhender]

uh, why would he have ridden clean all of a sudden when he himself sees doping as a means of leveling the playing field

Not saying he did..

But I think it is possible..

In our lives we sometimes do, or not do something -due to a variety of circumstances. Combined with a complex life and always "on the edge personalities" -I would consider it possible that some dopers lay off their medicine from time to time.. That could also help them create cognitive consonanse to their prior actions -thus justifying getting back on the dope..

From a logical pov it doesn't make (more) sense than just doping non-stop..
But humans aren't always logical...

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Not saying he did..

But I think it is possible..

In our lives we sometimes do, or not do something -due to a variety of circumstances. Combined with a complex life and always "on the edge personalities" -I would consider it possible that some dopers lay off their medicine from time to time.. That could also help them create cognitive consonanse to their prior actions -thus justifying getting back on the dope..

From a logical pov it doesn't make (more) sense than just doping non-stop..
But humans aren't always logical...

Me too:

Roberto Laiseka 23 min 5 Bonascre Aix les Thermes 664 8.9 1375 Tour de France 2001

Lance Armstrong 23min 7 Bonascre Aix les Thermes 664 8.9 1375 Tour de France 2001

Jan Ullrich 23min 30 Bonascre Aix les Thermes 664 8.9 1375 Tour de France 2001

Cleans!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

However after '96, it was less ridiculous...it was a bless at that time (50% rule). Before Armstrong bought the UCI. Doping yes but a sane HCT and more or less same conditions for everybody. 97-99 were nice (99 before the Pantani scandal + Motoman in the Tour)

Yes, maybe true that it was a three year period of leveled playing field as possible (if we look solely at the TdF).
In 97 teams still figured out how to circumvent the 50% rule.
In 98 teams were feared to death, flushing most of their PEDs down the toilet (IOW: shortage of PEDs as numerous time witnesses told)
In 99 teams were still feared to death, but one (LA didn´t care if he goes to a french prison, thus this reckless idea with the motoman. It was kind of roulette)...

After all, that´s more years that worked well enough for a level playing field, than the one or two when the BP was to some extend effective...

 

[Bavarianrider]

uh, why would he have ridden clean all of a sudden when he himself sees doping as a means of leveling the playing field

Because taking EPO was a lot more risky than in pre 2000.
There's a reason the swith was made to blood bags.

 

[roundabout]

Doesn't mean that he was clean

 

[Bavarianrider]

Doesn't mean that he was clean

No but there are quiet a few indications that he didn't have any kind of bood manipulation in 2000/2001.

 

[jens_attacks]

he made the top 20 of le tour in both those years. so yeah, case closed

still luv der kaiser

 

[RiccoDinko]

What a load of crapp in this thread. Ullrich is a career doper, he cheated and lied throughout his career. He only came forward, when the lies where no longer believable. Huge Talent, but a crook all the same.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

What a load of crapp in this thread. Ullrich is a career doper, he cheated and lied throughout his career. He only came forward, when the lies where no longer believable. Huge Talent, but a crook all the same.

What a load of crap... this post is. Tell me which "career doper" did came forward before his lies were no longer believable?

 

[thehog]

What a load of crapp in this thread. Ullrich is a career doper, he cheated and lied throughout his career. He only came forward, when the lies where no longer believable. Huge Talent, but a crook all the same.

Like the other 296 guys in the pro peloton at the time... not to mention all of the continental riders & juniors. Even the DSs medical teams were trying out the gear.

No doubt our friend Brian with his CIRC will uncover all these issues and make an apology for the UCI enablement of the enmasse doping era.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

No but there are quiet a few indications that he didn't have any kind of bood manipulation in 2000/2001.

Please, do tell.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Please, do tell.

Yes, the Telekom einz zwei drei in Sydney was in now way comparable to the Cecchini 1-2-3 in Atlanta.

But you knew that already...

 

[Bavarianrider]

What a load of crapp in this thread. Ullrich is a career doper, he cheated and lied throughout his career. He only came forward, when the lies where no longer believable. Huge Talent, but a crook all the same.

Well how do you explain then that Ullrich is respected among 99% within the cycling world.
You most likely won't find a rider from the "EPo era" who gets more respect than him.

 

[RiccoDinko]

99% percent of the peloton respected Armstrong until it was no longer fashionable. I have nothing against Ullrich, he was correct for the period. I have something against the double standards in the Clinic. Building up dopers, based on their nationalities, or some ridiculous chance that in 99 he rode clean. The amount of speculation, and fan favoritism that goes on here, is nauseating.

 

[blackcat]

99% percent of the peloton respected Armstrong until it was no longer fashionable. I have nothing against Ullrich, he was correct for the period. I have something against the double standards in the Clinic. Building up dopers, based on their nationalities, or some ridiculous chance that in 99 he rode clean. The amount of speculation, and fan favoritism that goes on here, is nauseating.

we know Ricky Riccio was clean tho.

 

[Bavarianrider]

99% percent of the peloton respected Armstrong until it was no longer fashionable. I have nothing against Ullrich, he was correct for the period. I have something against the double standards in the Clinic. Building up dopers, based on their nationalities, or some ridiculous chance that in 99 he rode clean. The amount of speculation, and fan favoritism that goes on here, is nauseating.

2000/01 not 99

 

[RiccoDinko]

What a load of crap... this post is. Tell me which "career doper" did came forward before his lies were no longer believable?

So what's your problem with Horner then? Is he supposed to stop his success, and tell all?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

2000/01 not 99

I agree, good doper Jan was clean in 2000.

One minute slower to his EPO fuel time in 1997.

Michele Ferrari was right, doping doesnt work.

Fans are the best.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I agree, good doper Jan was clean in 2000.

One minute slower to his EPO fuel time in 1997.

Michele Ferrari was right, doping doesnt work.

Fans are the best.

5.94 Watt/Kilo?
If anything, that's a rock solid proof that Ullrich was clean in that year.

 

[Alpechraxler]

5.94 Watt/Kilo?
If anything, that's a rock solid proof that Ullrich was clean in that year.

with many kg's you still get a lot of power

 

[Bavarianrider]

with many kg's you still get a lot of power

Ullrich in 1997 was just marking Virenque. There's little doubt he could have gone faster if he pushed himself to the limit.
He was in the 6.5 -7 Watt/ Kilo range on multiple stages that year.
In 2000 though, Joux Plane was his best day of the tour and he was going all out. Yet he only managed 5.9Watt/ Kilo.

5.9 to 6,5 that's a difference in power of 9%. Pretty much the difference you would excpect between clean and blood manipulated.

 

[Amazinmets73]

Ullrich in 1997 was just marking Virenque. There's little doubt he could have gone faster if he pushed himself to the limit.
He was in the 6.5 -7 Watt/ Kilo range on multiple stages that year.
In 2000 though, Joux Plane was his best day of the tour and he was going all out. Yet he only managed 5.9Watt/ Kilo.

5.9 to 6,5 that's a difference in power of 9%. Pretty much the difference you would excpect between clean and blood manipulated.

He was visibly heavier in 2000