Jayco al-'Ula and its GreenEdge predecessors

[danjo007]

pegasus blew all prospective australian cycling teams chances for the short term.

awaiting another epic FAIL...

 

[Sydney21]

http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/br...e-aims-for-tour-de-france-20110117-19tps.html

That article sums up part of the reason that I believe GreenEdge will succeed and why Pegasus was different ie. no need for an immediate commercial backer. Also the fact the Gerry Ryan is in it because of his passion for Aussie cycling and Gillett was not. Also, even though I respect Chris Whites intentions, Shayne Bannan and Neil Stephans both have far superior contacts and relationships with the riders and organising bodies in cycling.

I also found it interesting to read in that article the line "Bannan made a point of saying at the media launch that he was friends with many Australian riders and they had been approaching him, not the other way around." Who could that be. I spose he has lots of friends.

In an (possibly) unrelated note did Stuey O'Grady sign a one year deal with Leopard-Trek?? It would make sense for him to play the Robbie at Pegasus Role for Greenedge

 

[ingsve]

So what? Its a target, its hyperbole, it doesn't even necessarily mean riders. Look at most of the squads anyway, they generally have 60%+ on riders from the country registered as. Do you have a problem with Euskatel with there jingoistic recruiting policies? Realistically, I don't think they'll recruit 3/4 Aussies to fill the squad because they wont get the PT license that way. As for putting nationality before talent, looking at it another way you could argue they're giving a chance to these riders from Aus. How many riders from Kazakhstan are now riding in PT races because of Astana? Are you saying this will have a detrimental effect on them or will it only help the sport there?

My main problem is that the PT is a closed system with a limited number of possible riders that are forced to ride all the top races. In a system like that I think it's counter productive when nationality is one of the key factors that determines who gets in or not.

If you look at the teams that have more than 60% of their riders from the teams country of registration then they are all old teams from established cycling countries. They still represent a past era. If you look at the newer teams it looks a lot better:

team.leopard-trek: 2/25
Team Sky 10/30
Astana 11/27
BMC 8/27
RadioShack: 7/29
Vacansoleil 9/29
Garmin 7/29
HTC: 4/25

Then Saxo Bank looks pretty good at 8/25 and then there are a few borderline cases:

Quick Step 13/26
Lampre 15/28
Katusha 16/29

With the rest having more work to do.

In the teams listed above it's clear that nationality is not a primary factor for what riders they recruit. There will always be a handful of national riders recruited but the numbers are limited so on the whole it doesn't matter too much for the PT as a whole. But when teams start to talk specifically about having so and so many ridesr of a certain nationality I think the development moves in the wrong direction.

If it were Pro Continental teams then I wouldn't have a problem with it since there is no limit on the number of PC teams and no guide as to what races they have to ride. This is where I believe Euskaltel for example belongs.

We will just have to wait and see how serious they will be with these ambitions. Right now all I'm doing is reacting to the comments they are making.

Edit: Also to comment on the Astana question. I'm not against an australian team per se but if there is a new team coming into the PT then I would want it to be another Garmin, or BMC or Vacansoleil or HTC rather than another Euskaltel or Bretagne-Schuller.

 

[theyoungest]

My main problem is that the PT is a closed system with a limited number of possible riders that are forced to ride all the top races. In a system like that I think it's counter productive when nationality is one of the key factors that determines who gets in or not.

If you look at the teams that have more than 60% of their riders from the teams country of registration then they are all old teams from established cycling countries. They still represent a past era. If you look at the newer teams it looks a lot better:

team.leopard-trek: 2/25
Team Sky 10/30
Astana 11/27
BMC 8/27
RadioShack: 7/29
Vacansoleil 9/29
Garmin 7/29
HTC: 4/25

Then Saxo Bank looks pretty good at 8/25 and then there are a few borderline cases:

Quick Step 13/26
Lampre 15/28
Katusha 16/29

With the rest having more work to do.

In the teams listed above it's clear that nationality is not a primary factor for what riders they recruit. There will always be a handful of national riders recruited but the numbers are limited so on the whole it doesn't matter too much for the PT as a whole. But when teams start to talk specifically about having so and so many ridesr of a certain nationality I think the development moves in the wrong direction.

If it were Pro Continental teams then I wouldn't have a problem with it since there is no limit on the number of PC teams and no guide as to what races they have to ride. This is where I believe Euskaltel for example belongs.

We will just have to wait and see how serious they will be with these ambitions. Right now all I'm doing is reacting to the comments they are making.

Edit: Also to comment on the Astana question. I'm not against an australian team per se but if there is a new team coming into the PT then I would want it to be another Garmin, or BMC or Vacansoleil or HTC rather than another Euskaltel or Bretange-Schuller.

I think BMC, HTC, and Garmin would love to have more Americans on their team, but there aren't enough Americans at Protour level to fill three teams. I'm not so sure that the international character of those teams doesn't originate from necessity rather than idealism. BMC is the most obvious example: in one year, they've turned from an all-American and Swiss team into a team with mostly foreign leaders, the Americans now mainly performing domestique duties. Euskaltel could do with some foreign help on the cobbles front, but mostly they're doing just fine with only Basques (although technically they also have a "foreign" leader in Samuel Sanchez )

 

[ingsve]

I think BMC, HTC, and Garmin would love to have more Americans on their team, but there aren't enough Americans at Protour level to fill three teams. I'm not so sure that the international character of those teams doesn't originate from necessity rather than idealism. BMC is the most obvious example: in one year, they've turned from an all-American and Swiss team into a team with mostly foreign leaders, the Americans now mainly performing domestique duties. Euskaltel could do with some foreign help on the cobbles front, but mostly they're doing just fine with only Basques (although technically they also have a "foreign" leader in Samuel Sanchez )

I think there are more than enough american riders to do the same thing as Green Edge are doing. There aren't enough australian riders to fill one team either without draining all other teams of australians and any of the US teams could simply gather all american talent into one team if they really wanted to.

 

[auscyclefan94]

And what, other than blind hope, makes you think that it is not reliable?

Firstly, the team has people involved who are true professionals. Gerry Ryan is a very successfull businessman. Bannan has done a great job at the AIS. All credible people. I honestly don't see how it is possible that they could of sabotaged Pegasus' attempt to become a pro conti team. They stuffed themselves up. You like looking for a story when their is not one and you assume that the rumour is true when someone says (with no evidence) that their is dodgy business been done.

 

[hubbard]

looks like the basis of a very good setup to me. sadly for all the doubters and knockers, i expect this team is going to be quite a success. prepare to eat some humble pie.

 

[Tuarts]

I think there are more than enough american riders to do the same thing as Green Edge are doing. There aren't enough australian riders to fill one team either without draining all other teams of australians and any of the US teams could simply gather all american talent into one team if they really wanted to.

There was 99-100 Aussie in Conti or above teams. Considering there was only 4 teams that were Aussies, there's more than enough talent going around for 1 team of 15/25 Aussies.

Personally I dont care if they have 1 or 30, if they can get the riders and be competitive, so be it.

 

[Tuarts]

Firstly, the team has people involved who are true professionals. Gerry Ryan is a very successfull businessman. Bannan has done a great job at the AIS. All credible people. I honestly don't see how it is possible that they could of sabotaged Pegasus' attempt to become a pro conti team. They stuffed themselves up. You like looking for a story when their is not one and you assume that the rumour is true when someone says (with no evidence) that their is dodgy business been done.

According to the press release its been in development for a year. They sat and watched with Pegasus. Did they do anything? They had the same goals, the same end result. What stopped them helping, throwing a bone, supporting, working together with that bid other than chauvanistic pride or selfish desire to be the Aussie ProTeam and the first one at it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nothing to add except excessive patriotism ****s me off. Cycling teams are not quasi-national teams. Or at least they shouldn't be, but more and more people want a piece of the pie, and their national federation set up suspiciously conflict-of-interest teams (at least the Aussie Cycling Australia guys have left the CA posts before setting this up), which has the effect of being able to bogart all the top talent from that country.

Wouldn't it be better to have the Aussies who can sprint in a team where they will get the opportunities to sprint (Goss, Renshaw, McEwen), the Aussies who can ride the classics in a team where they will get the opportunities to ride the classics (O'Grady), and the Aussies who can compete for GC in a team where they can compete for GC (Evans, Porte)? Wouldn't that be better than having all the top Aussies in a team in some hideous green and gold uniform, and having a bunch of competing goals? Why do we need a quasi-national team - and worse, why does it have to be ONE team - wouldn't competition be better, as a) it prevents the team being seen as an ersatz national lineup, and having control over all the Australian youngsters, meaning that a case of mismanagement could damage the whole lot of them's careers rather than just a few, and b) it then becomes a motivating factor improving Australian cycling by having people trying to outdo the other team, like Lotto and QS, like Garmin and HTC? History has shown us that when you try to aim for everything at once, you wind up being mediocre at all of them. Look at Sky's assault on the Tour.

 

[hubbard]

i think you are underestimating the expertise of shane bannan and neil stephens to select a team, and also direct it. if you read the press release it is also clear that they both umderstand that the team needs to include riders from other continents besides australia, for various reasons. i very much doubt the team will run to the agenda you seem to have in mind for it libertine matey.

 

[hubbard]

According to the press release its been in development for a year. They sat and watched with Pegasus. Did they do anything? They had the same goals, the same end result. What stopped them helping, throwing a bone, supporting, working together with that bid other than chauvanistic pride or selfish desire to be the Aussie ProTeam and the first one at it.

quite simply there is a right way to do things, and a wrong way. greenedge are doing it the right way.

 

[BroDeal]

quite simply there is a right way to do things, and a wrong way. greenedge are doing it the right way.

So the right way is to exploit their positions in Cycling Australia for their own benefit?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

i think you are underestimating the expertise of shane bannan and neil stephens to select a team, and also direct it. if you read the press release it is also clear that they both umderstand that the team needs to include riders from other continents besides australia, for various reasons. i very much doubt the team will run to the agenda you seem to have in mind for it libertine matey.

Even if the guys behind it are more clever (and as somebody whose favourite team is Abarcá Sports, I have plenty of time for Neil Stephens as a DS), I hate patriotism, and so being subjected to ANOTHER year of Australian jingoism about their new team doesn't appeal to me. And appealing to patriotism is going to be the main approach to building up support, from the looks of it. After all, the people from Cycling Australia are in charge. Therefore I'm kind of expecting a Team Sky template.

I hate the way cycling is going off the bike, with these conflict of interest teams and the football style transfers, the corporate identities and the dull outfits, McQuaid selling status out to the highest bidders.

Am I being parochial and élitist? Yes, probably. But I feel like we need to be protecting the base, cos if the bottom falls out of the globalisation revolution, then we're going to need to not have alienated and driven out teams at the lower levels and marginalised the teams from the key countries that make up cycling's history and biggest events, cos we need them. The Giro should feel like it's Italian, the Tour should feel French, de Ronde should feel Belgian, the Vuelta should feel Spanish. It's part of their identity. It's what made them what they are today, and we shouldn't be sacrificing that (and considering I moaned about patriotism in teams, I guess suggesting that it isn't a bad thing in races makes me a hypocrite too).

This is now a moan which isn't about GreenEdge per se, but they are one representative of that so they're bearing the brunt of it. Sky are another, Leopard another. Garmin feel like they're headed that way with Vaughters' franchise idea, though they built up the right way. I hate the way you can just buy your way straight to the top league from scratch because the points go to where you go for the following year. What incentive does it give domestiques to ride for a leader who's out of contract and could leave them in the lurch?

 

[Sydney21]

According to the press release its been in development for a year. They sat and watched with Pegasus. Did they do anything? They had the same goals, the same end result. What stopped them helping, throwing a bone, supporting, working together with that bid other than chauvanistic pride or selfish desire to be the Aussie ProTeam and the first one at it.

I willed for Pegasus to succeed as much as the next person but can you honestly say that you would be willing to place a 10-16 million dollar budget anywhere near Chris White?? One doesn't just throw that sort of money into a venture that was set up as Pegasus was. That is how things go belly up!

 

[Sydney21]

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/news/21937/New-Jayco-2XU-squad-to-ride-the-NRS

Patrick Jonker will direct and Chris Jongewaard, Glen O'Shea and Mark Jamison will lead the team called Jayco 2XU. Looks like 2XU weren,t scared off after the Paegsus debacle which is good to see.

'It is hoped that riders who join Team Jayco-2XU will find a pathway to through to the Jayco-AIS team and eventually the pro ranks with the developing professional GreenEDGE effort now led by former Cycling Australia National Performance Director Shayne Bannan.'

also

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/golly-goss-nice-win-pushes-up-riders-price-20110309-1bo2t.html

'Bannan hopes to announce the GreenEDGE team's clothing and bike-frame sponsors in the first week of next month.'

''Next year, he is out of contract. When the time is right, we will have a discussion with him.''



and

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/New-Releases/content/100/3899/Live-From-Lake-Como-Life-of-OGrady.html

'O'Grady signed a one-year contract with Leopard-Trek. There are rumours that he may join new Australian team, Green Edge next year. He said anything is possible, though, including retiring and remaining with Leopard.'

 

[Tuarts]

So the new Jayco-2XU team will be a feeder team to Jayco-Skins?

There's a lot of new teams sprouting up now for the National Series. Going to make this seasons races very interesting. Over in the West, here Budget Forklifts have gotten themselves a Continental liscense to race in Indonesia and Plan B have a decent budget now (for this level). Of course, you have Jayco-Skins, Drapac, Gensys, Virgin-RBS Morgan as "pro" teams plus I imagine all the teams in the Eastern States of the same ilk as Budget/PlanB.

March is still too early for these 'rumours' of targeting riders too. As for merchandise...it sickens me they're putting it all out now, like things are already a given. Still not decided if I'lll buy anything from these cretins (I usually try and buy jersey of the Aus teams to support them).

 

[vala-vala]

'Bannan hopes to announce the GreenEDGE team's clothing and bike-frame sponsors in th

Some rumours???????
perhaps SCOTT....or an australian bike as TESCHNER?

 

[hubbard]

malvern star oppys. ftw.

 

[woodie]

Some rumours???????
perhaps SCOTT....or an australian bike as TESCHNER?

God I hope they don't ride Teschner. Everyone I know thats had one it's broken underneath them.

 

[Tuarts]

Oh wow, Jongewaard and Jamieson on the same team. DAOTEC would have a field day is he was around.

 

[Nearly]

God I hope they don't ride Teschner. Everyone I know thats had one it's broken underneath them.

Mine's been great (then again you may not know me)!

 

[woodie]

Mine's been great (then again you may not know me)!

I probably don't lol. I've just heard nothing but bad things about them. Maybe they've gotten better over time

 

[Tuarts]

Could be put in another thread but here's the jersey design:

Stripes look on on the front but vomit worthy on the back.

EDIT: Oh and sponsors: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/strong-support-for-team-jayco-2xu

 

[Anonymous]

this could get confusing

Jayco2xu
Jayco Skins
Green Edge

whats the connection