Jessica Zelinka

[D-Queued]

@ D-Queued
The pith and substance of the thread was that based on a photo, Zelinka was a doper. Where's your evidence. It's a pretty simple concept.

I actually posted the only evidence on the entire frickin thread. I posted evidence that she missed an OOC test.

Otherwise, with 20 plus posts I did my damnedest to kill, divert, squelch, or otherwise avoid the discussion and send it into a completely different direction.

And, I did that successfully. And, I am happy to respond to your posts because this continues the off-topic meandering. Except that you are now asking me about evidence. And. Wait for it. There is some.

Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answers to.

YOU ARE TARGETING THE WRONG PERSON.

Dave.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

I actually posted the only evidence on the entire frickin thread. I posted evidence that she missed an OOC test.

Otherwise, with 20 plus posts I did my damnedest to kill, divert, squelch, or otherwise avoid the discussion and send it into a completely different direction.

And, I did that successfully. And, I am happy to respond to your posts because this continues the off-topic meandering. Except that you are now asking me about evidence. And. Wait for it. There is some.

Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answers to.

YOU ARE TARGETING THE WRONG PERSON.

Dave.

The issue was whether or not Zelinka was a doper based on a photo. Why you are unable to grasp this simple truth is beyond all comprehension. I simply pointed out your comments were sarcastic and had no constructive contribution to the issue at hand.

When asked to present some evidence you have none. A missed test? That's it!

 

[D-Queued]

The issue was whether or not Zelinka was a doper based on a photo. Why you are unable to grasp this simple truth is beyond all comprehension. I simply pointed out your comments were sarcastic and had no constructive contribution to the issue at hand.

When asked to present some evidence you have none. A missed test? That's it! Instead you rant away about your integrity calling me an idiot (we will let the Forum decide this) in the most neurotic way possible.

<sigh>

I acknowledge that you wrote something. And I even copied it in full.

Dave.

 

[D-Queued]

News Item: 4 December 2012

Zelinka has strike for missed drug test; athletes have mixed feelings on protocol

...
Three strikes is an anti-doping violation, and can come with a suspension of up to two years.

...

News Item: 7 Feb 2013 (two months after Zelinka missed test)

The CCES holds athlete town hall meeting to discuss anti-doping improvements

...
In the wake of the Lance Armstrong scandal, the necessity for collaboration between competitive athletes and anti-doping organizations has never been more obvious.
...

...Specific ideas included criminalizing doping activity...

Athletes in attendance included:

Kyle Shewfelt (Gymnastics)
Kristina Groves (Speed Skating)
Clara Hughes (Cycling, Speed Skating)
Benoît Huot (Paralympic Swimming)
Geoff Kabush (Cycling)
Jeane Lassen (Weightlifting)
(Jessica Zelinka husband) Nathaniel Miller (Water Polo)
...

News Item: 1 October 2012 (two months before Zelinka missed test)

SPECTOR ON NHL: NAÏVE TO STEROID USE

..."The key issue is out of competition drug testing," (Jessica Zelinka coach) Gramantik said. "In reality, these guys can go back home in the summer, and they can stuff whatever chemicals into their body they want. That's what missing compared to Olympic athletes. You've got to have out of season (to have an effective program). Which means that someone can show up at your door at 6 am, wherever you are, and you've got an hour to pee in a bottle. You've got to declare your whereabouts - you can't just take off for two weeks to nowhere…

Within a couple of months of said infraction.

Her coach says out of competition testing is compulsory.

Her husband discusses criminalization for doping.

Yet, she complains about a first strike on a missed test where she didn't update her whereabouts for a known, well-scheduled event.

Interesting.

What was that first post about again? Maybe we should get back to the topic.

Dave.

 

[D-Queued]

On 'telltale' signs of doping, Jessica Zelinka coach Gramantik offers these insights:

"I wish I could say I was surprised, but I wasn't," Gramantik said.

"In Osaka (at last summer world championships), I noticed slight changes in certain physical appearances in certain ladies. Some of their performances (have been) extremely amazing. I wish I could be naive enough to say they just train harder and eat more eggs than the rest of us. But there are certain signs - shape and facial changes, temper, rolling hamstrings. You shouldn't be getting pimples at 28...

Body shape. Facial Changes. Ripped Hamstrings. Mood. Acne.

Interesting.

Dave.

 

[sittingbison]

OK I am calling time out with the personal attacks.

Play the ball not the man.

cheers
bison

 

[D-Queued]

Jessica Zelinka coach Gramantik says our athletes couldn't easily miss a test:

WADA - the World Anti-Doping Agency - has a far easier time tracking down athletes in Canada to test than it does in some countries abroad, and that's a huge problem, Gramantik said.

So, how come Jessica missed a test? Why does she complain about it?

Dave.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Missing an out of competition test is very dodgy.

It's not 100% evidence of a doper but its pretty obvious that it would give a doper a chance to cycle off.

 

[Galic Ho]

What really annoys me is when there is not one poster who can bring forward any evidence that Jessica is on the junk...posters who have thousands of posts notched on their belts -DQued, Peddling Squares, Moose, Benoit, Hugh etc.

Hey come on...those guys are good posters!

Cynical! That is so cute! That little preaching segment of yours had all the trade marks of classic deflection. You'll have to put your big pants on in the Clinic. The fact she made an Olympic athletics final leaves her open to speculation. Sure some of the things said aren't really cool and could warrant being labelled cynical, but that is it. A sole post.

Those guys you mentioned are not overly cynical and pessimistic. They simply have seen every trick and act of deceit imaginable in pro sports and they call a spade a spade. Maybe you are content living on cloud nine or off with the pixies in your self aggrandizing fantasy world of pro sports; that is you business. But it's the Clinic...so big deal!

The only real problem I have with your stance is that you're of the opinion that people should shut up and not say anything you dislike. That is akin to censorship. Denial of freedom of speech. The removal of the avenue of self learning, where things are no longer permitted to be questioned. Basically total enslavement of ones mind. You keep preaching that...Jimmy and ebandit will be asking you to join their guild. They can use some company.

As for the poverty of their comments...perhaps you've been kicking and scrounging in the muck and mud that is professional sports mysticism for so long that you've failed to notice the shine, fulfillment and enrichment the truth can bring. How does one reach the truth? Through questioning, reasoned discussion and testing. But you don't want that...yeah we've heard this angle before in the Clinic. Might as well bash that drum once more. I'm sure those guys who you labelled cynical (which none are BTW) had fun laughing at you and wouldn't mind another round.

 

[Galic Ho]

So DQ? Show me the redeeming value in this sarcastic comment? In spite of your assertions to the contrary, your skin is pretty thin. The negative priming about Ryder and the obvious mistake about Barry makes me think you don't know a lot about what you don't post.

And who gives a jack about your thread jack. And your comment "Are you sure you want to criticize me?" sounds like LA intimidation at its best

PS Where is your evidence on Zelinka or did you miss the whole point of this thread?

Have one of the guys you labelled and named rung up your other half and abused them? You know the whole..."Don't walk. RUN" routine?

Has D'Queued ridden up to on the road after chasing you down and told you to leave the road ala Bassons and Simieoni? Or perhaps he chased after you and pulled you from your car and gave you a good old fashioned walloping? I guess not then! Great analogy BTW...really well thought out. Clearly the product of a mind that comprehends the magnitude and scope of the Uniballer.

How about saving the melodrama for some other time? I mean what did you expect when you found the Clinic? Circle dancing, holding hands and singing kumbaya? You after all went out of your way to forage around here at least have the self respect and dignity to harden yourself a little. You sound like someone who found the Clinic, thought it would be all songs and dances and a place where no questioning occurred, let alone accusations would be leveled at your countrymen/women, and now you don't like what you've found. If you truly were questioning sports and doping, you'd read up, look around and learn the basics. But fret not...you're not the first person post the 2012 Tour to fail to do this and you won't be the last.

Good luck with those guys. They're going to eat you for breakfast champ.

 

[Galic Ho]

@ D-Queued

The pith and substance of the thread was that based on a photo, Zelinka was a doper. Where's your evidence. It's a pretty simple concept.

Hugh Januss gave you enough evidence to warrant questioning. Check his four links of page 18.

This one had all the stuff a person needed to open this thread:

http://humantimes.com/articleaction/printnow/38530

D'Queued provided them. Note the man with the big quotes...Canadian head coach Les Gramantik. He's quick to mention Russian women in this manner:

Gramantik isn't so naive to believe drugs don't exist in his sports, and admits he wasn't the slightest bit surprised when seven Russian women were suspended for doping violations just eight days before the opening of the Beijing Olympics. The well-muscled physiques and acne blemishes, he said, were a dead giveaway, for one.

"Some of those performances on the women's side in Russia are extremely, extremely amazing, and when I saw them in Valencia (at the world indoor championships), they were powerful," Gramantik said. "I wish I could be totally naive and say they just train harder than the rest of us, they just eat more eggs than the rest of us. . .

Fair enough. But he mentions build...the physical specimen as a dead set giveaway. Okay, but that doesn't count for Canadians does it? It's not like in the preceedding paragraph he talked about Zelinka is it? Sure different context, but it's darn stupid to think that people can state someone isn't clearly a doper based on looks is it? Isn't that what you're saying? Because your boy, head coach of Canadian athletics Les Gramantik did exactly that. Here is the previous paragraph for you:

Athletes can be tested virtually at any time and anywhere, and must be made available within an hour of an announced testing.

"That's why we were so concerned in Singapore, we have to know where every athlete is all the time," Gramantik said. "If somebody comes and says, 'Where's (heptathlete Jessica) Zelinka?' I say, 'I don't know, Zelinka's down at Tiananmen Square walking around' . . . I hope not, but then I've got to chase her down."

I could even make a case based on latent hidden psychological tells, that by referring to Zelinka in one comment and the very next stating that you thought other athletes who weren't under your wing were dopers (made pinaully obvious by their muscles) that either Gramantik or the author is guilty of a Freudian slip. We've seen this national bias before. If you can dish it out, you've got to be prepared to cop it back. One cannot hold credibility and not demand the same treatment for their own.

So whilst you may not think the thread is warranted, the manner of reasoning used to highlight Zelinka has most certainly been used and thought of by her boss albeit from Beijing in 2008 towards those pesky dirty Russians. Because we all know in the Clinic, the pure Anglo -Commonwealth nations have never ever doped. It's only those dirty nations that do that. The former Commies, the Mediterranean dwellers. Definitely not the Brits, the Yanks, the Cannucks nor the Aussies and Kiwis. They don't ever dope!

The only thing the guys you labelled as cynics are guilty of is holding the same torch to EVERYONE. Shame you can't hop off your lofty self appointed perch and do the same. You might learn something. Want to blame someone for this thread and our thinking. Your nations head coach started it first back in 2008. Nice try.

I'll leave you with one last thing. A final quote from Gramantik.

"You can close your eyes and pretend that you don't know anything about it," he added. "It never occurs to me to worry if somebody is doping or not. I sometimes think of what it would be like if nobody was doping, but that takes about 10 seconds, and I move forward to what I can do.

Sounds like he believes in fairies like you doesn't it? Or is it just missing the plain and obvious the D'Queued had provided. As he pointed out, he was deflecting attention from Zelinka. Your gripe is with Dear Wiggo who I believe started this thread, not D'Queued nor the other guys you mentioned.

 

[Galic Ho]

Missing an out of competition test is very dodgy.

It's not 100% evidence of a doper but its pretty obvious that it would give a doper a chance to cycle off.

Considering she was at an Olympic parade...I buy that. I've heard a number of reasons for people testing positive or missing OC tests that IMO were legit and valid.

Now if she has a dodgy BioPassport as well...that would be a whole other kettle of fish. But all we have is one missed test and she was in a very public place where I would expect the testers to know using some common sense, that she'd be there. People forget to do things and their system is unforgiving of that. A well informed anti-doping official should be able to put two and two together and ask, "Hey, Olympic celebration parade, why wouldn't a multiple Olympic finalist be there? Maybe I should ring her and check?"

However, her husband does moan way too much. Those quotes from him in the articles D'Queued gave, aren't bad, but is sounds like belly aching. Like he simply does not get why testing has to be so intrusive. Someone should reeducate him.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Hmmm, first there was the "Clinic 12".

Is there now a "Cynical 7"? Has a nice ring to it...

Well done, gents. That was an *ss-handing...

 

[Galic Ho]

Hmmm, first there was the "Clinic 12".

Is there now a "Cynical 7"? Has a nice ring to it...

Well done, gents. That was an *ss-handing...

Oh, yes, yes and yes again. Can I join pretty please? I promise to be the most cynical person in the Clinic. Well maybe not, but I will try!

BTW, nice use of alliteration. Cynical Seven. That has a nice ring to it. One question though? What comes first in the hierarchy of things? The Cynical 7 or the Clinic 12? Who does one defer to in cases of mass hysteria and confusion?

We should get that out of the way and listed as a sticky for all the forum newbies. Perhaps the rules will even allow us to talk about the cynical 7?

 

[peterst6906]

One question though? What comes first in the hierarchy of things? The Cynical 7 or the Clinic 12? Who does one defer to in cases of mass hysteria and confusion?

Neither, they are super-sets of each other like multiple sized infinities.

 

[blackcat]

have not got the handle of forum idiom and etiquette.

you are referring to The Clinic 12

What really annoys me is when there is not one poster who can bring forward any evidence that Jessica is on the junk...posters who have thousands of posts notched on their belts - DQued, Peddling Squares, Moose, Benoit, Hugh etc.

Hey come on...those guys are good posters!

Cynical! That is so cute! That little preaching segment of yours had all the trade marks of classic deflection. You'll have to put your big pants on in the Clinic. The fact she made an Olympic athletics final leaves her open to speculation. Sure some of the things said aren't really cool and could warrant being labelled cynical, but that is it. A sole post.

Those guys you mentioned are not overly cynical and pessimistic. They simply have seen every trick and act of deceit imaginable in pro sports and they call a spade a spade. Maybe you are content living on cloud nine or off with the pixies in your self aggrandizing fantasy world of pro sports; that is you business. But it's the Clinic...so big deal!

The only real problem I have with your stance is that you're of the opinion that people should shut up and not say anything you dislike. That is akin to censorship. Denial of freedom of speech. The removal of the avenue of self learning, where things are no longer permitted to be questioned. Basically total enslavement of ones mind. You keep preaching that...Jimmy and ebandit will be asking you to join their guild. They can use some company.

As for the poverty of their comments...perhaps you've been kicking and scrounging in the muck and mud that is professional sports mysticism for so long that you've failed to notice the shine, fulfillment and enrichment the truth can bring. How does one reach the truth? Through questioning, reasoned discussion and testing. But you don't want that...yeah we've heard this angle before in the Clinic. Might as well bash that drum once more. I'm sure those guys who you labelled cynical (which none are BTW) had fun laughing at you and wouldn't mind another round.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Hey come on...those guys are good posters!

Cynical! That is so cute! That little preaching segment of yours had all the trade marks of classic deflection. You'll have to put your big pants on in the Clinic. The fact she made an Olympic athletics final leaves her open to speculation. Sure some of the things said aren't really cool and could warrant being labelled cynical, but that is it. A sole post.

Those guys you mentioned are not overly cynical and pessimistic. They simply have seen every trick and act of deceit imaginable in pro sports and they call a spade a spade. Maybe you are content living on cloud nine or off with the pixies in your self aggrandizing fantasy world of pro sports; that is you business. But it's the Clinic...so big deal!

The only real problem I have with your stance is that you're of the opinion that people should shut up and not say anything you dislike. That is akin to censorship. Denial of freedom of speech. The removal of the avenue of self learning, where things are no longer permitted to be questioned. Basically total enslavement of ones mind. You keep preaching that...Jimmy and ebandit will be asking you to join their guild. They can use some company.

As for the poverty of their comments...perhaps you've been kicking and scrounging in the muck and mud that is professional sports mysticism for so long that you've failed to notice the shine, fulfillment and enrichment the truth can bring. How does one reach the truth? Through questioning, reasoned discussion and testing. But you don't want that...yeah we've heard this angle before in the Clinic. Might as well bash that drum once more. I'm sure those guys who you labelled cynical (which none are BTW) had fun laughing at you and wouldn't mind another round.

What an esoteric, psuedo intellectual rant typical of the thousand post club who routinely ignore the substantive issues and embark on a self-indulgent parade of big words and phrases from 30 year old Philosophy texts in the Forum. Your self aggrandizing treatise is a joke.

1. If a post (like D-Queued's) is cynical it ought to be exposed as one

2. If a post (like D-Queued's) is sarcastic it ought to be exposed as one

3. If a post (like D-Queued's) cast slurs and aspersions about a particular athlete not being clean based on a photo, that poster (a la D-Queued or say Armstrong when talking about Landis) ought to be exposed and challenged to put up the evidence (which D-Queued could not do)


That does not mean you and your fellow cynics cannot say what you want, but if you do you should have thicker skins than yours to take the logical criticism that goes with it.

4. Where you get the idea I support professional sports in the sense I support the business end of sport is a figment of your very active imagination

Since the thread was about whether Zelinka was a doper based on a photo, your totally irrelevant comments really don't deserve even this response.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Jessica Zelinka coach Gramantik says our athletes couldn't easily miss a test:

WADA - the World Anti-Doping Agency - has a far easier time tracking down athletes in Canada to test than it does in some countries abroad, and that's a huge problem, Gramantik said.

So, how come Jessica missed a test? Why does she complain about it?

Dave.

Have you been to Canada Dave? It is the largest geographical country in the world!

 

[Ferminal]

So that's why the Russians dope...

 

[frenchfry]

Have you been to Canada Dave? It is the largest geographical country in the world!

At one point in a far away world Dave posted a copy of his Canadian Olympic athlete credentials. I assume they were at least as real as Jessica Zelinka's biceps.

Not to defend his posting, but I do believe he knows where Canuckland is.

I tend to agree that a mere photo shouldn't be a basis for doping accusations. I must admit though that certain photos do make me wonder about just how all those muscles got there. Then again I am not a fan of the body builder physique.

PS: last I heard, Canada was the second largest country in the world, far behind Russia. Geographically speaking that is.

 

[centri]

serious about what?

normally gaining such excessive muscle mass would become a hindrance in a sport like pole vault, where agility and athletism is very important (in addition to strength of course).
how does one gain such muscle mass, without losing flexibility, agility and speed?
perhaps that's where PEDs come into play.

That guy is a stick. There are plenty of bulky people with flexibility and speed. If he looked like Ben Johnson, okay, not normal, but that guy is all skin and bones!

I'm 150lbs, 6 even. Built pretty much like this guy. <10% bf. No peds! Just watch what you put in your mouth, train, and in my 40yr-old case, rest and recover.

People use PEDs, fine. But showing pics of a 150 pound guy with some muscle... and implying PEDs is a bit far, imo.

-----------------------------

This is the problem with this thread. Jessica may be on PEDs, but judging from her picture, when I can see similar physiques (maybe not sub 8% bf but close enough) by heading to any local xfit gym...

Don't people do any hard work anymore? Yes they do.
Does it = PEDs? No.
Is she "Not Normal"? Yes, she's an elite athlete; these people are not normal.

Amazing as it may sound, but one can work out hard, watch what they stuff down their gullet, and build muscle and be low BF. The result of this should not be a basis for PED accusation.

Judging by a single photo is the clinic jumping the shark. Be diligent with your thoughts...

 

[sniper]

That guy is a stick. There are plenty of bulky people with flexibility and speed. If he looked like Ben Johnson, okay, not normal, but that guy is all skin and bones!

I'm 150lbs, 6 even. Built pretty much like this guy. <10% bf. No peds! Just watch what you put in your mouth, train, and in my 40yr-old case, rest and recover.

People use PEDs, fine. But showing pics of a 150 pound guy with some muscle... and implying PEDs is a bit far, imo.

he used to be a stick, but he's not a stick in 2013
compare the bulky photos i posted on the previous page with these unsuspicious photos from previous years:

quite a difference.

 

[centri]

...The removal of the avenue of self learning, where things are no longer permitted to be questioned...

Question what you are questioning, as well. I have no faith in olympic athletes, but picking out PEDers based on a photo, if it isn't ignorance of what can be achieved physically, can very easily be cynicism (thank god for spell correct).

 

[centri]

he used to be a stick, but he's not a stick in 2013
compare the bulky photos i posted on the previous page with these unsuspicious photos from previous years:
...
quite a difference

As someone in his weight category, I disagree, based on my experience. Sorry man, but I can not see where PEDs are needed for these types of gains (having made these types of changes myself.)

 

[sniper]

Question what you are questioning, as well. I have no faith in olympic athletes, but picking out PEDers based on a photo, if it isn't ignorance of what can be achieved physically, can very easily be cynicism (thank god for spell correct).

Of course you can achieve that physique naturally. The question is: can you achieve that physique naturally in the gym, and at the same time be competitive in an athletic discipline such as pole vault, where speed and agility are called for (in addition to strength)? As you yourself already issued, you need a lot of recovery time to build such muscle weight, which would normally be at the expense of training hours (read: at the expense of speed and agility).