João Almeida - Bota Lume

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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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red_flanders said:
If he finishes the Giro a bit behind Evenepoel, I would say he's progressed a lot. Just not relative to Evenepoel who has made huge strides since they were on the same team.
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And there is one other option involved too. As although Giro 2023 will have some proper ITT in it. Giro being Giro there will be some heavy climbing involved too. And here there is a chance Evenepoel might struggle.

We'll see.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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CyclistAbi said:
@Logic-is-your-friend

Personally i am rather surprised he got to do Giro this season. On top of that i can imagine he gets paid more at team UAE. But i guess this is it. Season 2023. Where he will need to show some results.

As for if he is progressing or regressing at UAE. Evenpoel should be a good reference point.
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I don't think Evenepoel should be a reference point considering he has had his own demons to deal with during his development, and how he developed might not be representative or a good benchmark to measure up to, that includes both highs and lows.

I think we should judge Almeida's progress on what could be realistically expected since his breakthrough Giro, when he had only just turned 22. He will turn 25 few months after this year's Giro, that's nearly 3 years. If he really has made strides since joining UAE, we should be seeing it clearly by now. We shouldn't have to resort to nitpicking and micro-analysing, but it should be clear that he has become a better cyclist. So far, i have seen nothing to suggest he has, quite the contrary. So indeed, we'll have to wait.
 
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CyclistAbi

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@Logic-is-your-friend

Hypothetically. If Almeida would do better on Giro then Evenpoel. Likely he won't. But lets say he would. And as Almeida is likely paid more at UAE. In such case there is a human factor involved too. And in such case it would be hard to argue the move to UAE was a bad move.

Now if Almeida flops at Giro. Then he will likely be pushed more in Pogi support role. But in such case the salary would likely still be higher. Compared to PL team. Things become moot again. As over at the PL team. Almeida would be handpicked by Evenpoel. And that would be it. Point being that in PL team he would find it hard. To first establish if he is GT material or not. And in what role. At UAE i must say he got more chances then i expected.

All in all Giro 2023 is in my opinion it. He will need to show something on this race. The stakes are high.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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CyclistAbi said:
@Logic-is-your-friend

Hypothetically. If Almeida would do better on Giro then Evenpoel. Likely he won't. But lets say he would. And as Almeida is likely paid more at UAE. In such case there is a human factor involved too. And in such case it would be hard to argue the move to UAE was a bad move.

Now if Almeida flops at Giro. Then he will likely be pushed more in Pogi support role. But in such case the salary would likely still be higher. Compared to PL team. Things become moot again. As over at the PL team. Almeida would be handpicked by Evenpoel. And that would be it. Point being that in PL team he would find it hard. To first establish if he is GT material or not. And in what role. At UAE i must say he got more chances then i expected.

All in all Giro 2023 is in my opinion it. He will need to show something on this race. The stakes are high.
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Even halfway the 2020 Giro, Lefevere said if he keeps evolving and progressing that way, that he could become a leader at QS and would not have to follow the path of Evenepoel. So no, you can't say he would be pushed in a support role, at least not more than at UAE for Pogacar (that time may still come).

If he evolves in such a way that he can fight for the Giro win against Roglic, Evenepoel, Thomas... then sure, moving wasn't a bad thing. But if he is again fighting for top 5 or top 8, then he has not improved his own situation and will always be wondering what might have been if he had not moved to UAE. You can say he will get paid more, but i think he would get paid enough to lead a happy life at QS as well. But when his career is over, he might want to go back and pay all the money he earned at UAE, just to see if he would have been able to win bigger races at if he hadn't gone to UAE.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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@Logic-is-your-friend

You explained what PL said and we all seen what happened on the road. When Remco was fuming. You say now they got more money and will have more GT leaders. They can't have that. As long as Remco can handpick 5 and the rest can do whatever they want. But OK. Lets see on how fast there will be two GT leaders in PL team. On that day Remco should likely sign for Ineos. If the offer will still stand. That would be my suggestion.
 
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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CyclistAbi said:
@Logic-is-your-friend

You explained what PL said and we all seen what happened on the road. When Remco was fuming. You say now they got more money and will have more GT leaders. They can't have that. As long as Remco can handpick 5 and the rest can do whatever they want. But OK. Lets see on how fast there will be two GT leaders in PL team. On that day Remco should likely sign for Ineos. If the offer will still stand. That would be my suggestion.
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lol
You saw Almeida lose 5 minutes on an easy mountain, while Evenepoel was within 15 seconds of Bernal at that moment. What do you think would happen at UAE, or at any other team, at that moment? Almeida was not even in the top 20.

Nothing more to be discussed.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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@Logic-is-your-friend

At UAE Almeida will likely be leading the Giro team. But likely last chance to show something. I agree on that. But lets say he fails this year. To make an impact on Giro. Then for sure he will likely need to do some support duties in 2024. At lets say Tour. But beyond that likely still getting real chances at GT's.

At PL team and if we exclude Alaphilippe (for now). It will indeed be interesting to see if they will have two cyclists capable of leading a GT team anytime soon. And if yes if they will use them like that. I don't buy that for a second. But if they will do just that. Then chapeau.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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CyclistAbi said:
@Logic-is-your-friend

At UAE Almeida will likely be leading the Giro team. But likely last chance to show something. I agree on that. But lets say he fails this year. To make an impact on Giro. Then for sure he will likely need to do some support duties in 2024. At lets say Tour. But beyond that likely still getting real chances at GT's.

At PL team and if we exclude Alaphilippe (for now). It will indeed be interesting to see if they will have two cyclists capable of leading a GT team anytime soon. And if yes if they will use them like that. I don't buy that for a second. But if they will do just that. Then chapeau.
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At UAE he wasn't even leader above a 19 year old rookie. Please.

The only reason he had to work for Evenepoel in '21Giro was because he himself screwed the pooch in stage 4.

Believe what you will.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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@Logic-is-your-friend

For whatever reasons. With Almeida it was not meant to be. That is in the past now. They are now in different teams and will be competing against each other at the Giro.

Now as you say PL might decide to bring in another cyclist capable of winning a GT at some point in the future. If something like that happens then al this hypothetical discussion will bear fruit again.

As for the Giro 2023. You must agree that both cyclists, considering their history, should represent a nice benchmark against each other? In regards to their progression or regression.
 
Extinction

Extinction

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In my opinion Almeida is a great fighter, but lacks that something special to win big in a GT. In this sense he is tragic, because he probably goes deeper and suffers more than most could endure, but the results don't match the efforts. He is "oh so close," but never actually there. This always means a world of pain and toil. I don't think the team matters so much, except whether or not he has leadership or a support role, in which case he won't have to flog himself as he does trying to hang on to the leaders.
 
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Andy schleck

Andy schleck

Jul 18, 2020
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CyclistAbi said:
@Logic-is-your-friend

You explained what PL said and we all seen what happened on the road. When Remco was fuming. You say now they got more money and will have more GT leaders. They can't have that. As long as Remco can handpick 5 and the rest can do whatever they want. But OK. Lets see on how fast there will be two GT leaders in PL team. On that day Remco should likely sign for Ineos. If the offer will still stand. That would be my suggestion.
Click to expand...
There's room en every team for two GT leaders. There are three grand tours every year. It's also good, have more than one card. Just like ineos with thomas and bernal, or jumbo with vingegaard and roglic. It would be ridiculous remco leave quick step because of that. Besides that, remco should stay his career on quick step. It's one of the best teams developing riders.
Almeida made a mistake leaving quick step. Unless the money was his priority.
 
Andy schleck

Andy schleck

Jul 18, 2020
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Extinction said:
In my opinion Almeida is a great fighter, but lacks that something special to win big in a GT. In this sense he is tragic, because he probably goes deeper and suffers more than most could endure, but the results don't match the efforts. He is "oh so close," but never actually there. This always means a world of pain and toil. I don't think the team matters so much, except whether or not he has leadership or a support role, in which case he won't have to flog himself as he does trying to hang on to the leaders.
Click to expand...
Almeida knows very well is destiny in the future....work for pogacar. Unless he shows that can fight with remco and roglic to win the giro. I really doubt about that.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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@Andy schleck

In reality there isn't all that much room for having two GT leaders per team. That is both winning GT's. This usually doesn't work good long term. And if Almeida can't beat Evenpoel on a GT. In such case he would get even less chances in his old team compared to UAE. In UAE on where it's actually expected from him to beat Evenpoel on a GT in 2023. In his old team hence he would be developed in a good dom. In his new team he can still do that if needed. But only after establishing if he is capable of winning GT races or not. So i don't see on how he would be better off in his old team. If he is getting much more on all accounts in his new team. Not just the money.
 
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