João Almeida - Bota Lume

[arquipelagoGulag]

Didn't Deceuninck died of shame for the way it treated its Giro leader? Just another day that João Almeida has to look for where the Belgian star is.

 

[Leinster]

This is simply not true. he was at the back when the final steep part of the climb came.
Remco climbed 4 minutes faster in the first week, but that doesn't count? It only counts when Almeida is stronger?
The only thing Almeida has been consistently better at this Giro, is gravel and descending.

Almeida’s only had one bad day so far this Giro. Evenepoel has had 3 and counting. It’s obviously possible that Almeida may have more to come, but by now it doesn’t make sense to ask him to protect a rider in 8th place and 5 minutes down.

Apparently Remco said after today’s stage that Almeida will be free.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Could be but the team ought to have some data from training and i am sure that they trained together and that has set some inner team dynamics too. What i am trying to say is the whole thing was likely managed more by heart and hopes than anything else and Almeida got caught in the middle.

Bottom line Almeida should not be blamed, he did his part. Evenepoel now has to focus on week 3 and there is now a list on which areas he must improve in the future if he wants to win GT races. Gravel, punch and climbing.

Almeida should be blamed for not following team orders. This was discussed before the Giro, and after the stage where he lost 5 minutes. It was agreed by everyone, but after he lost 5 minutes, he didn't want to help Remco on the Sterrati. If he didn't want to comply to those terms, i'm sure he could have stayed at home and they could have sent Vansevenant or Cattaneo. If these were the agreements, he should have honored them. Simple as that.

Almeida’s only had one bad day so far this Giro. Evenepoel has had 3 and counting. It’s obviously possible that Almeida may have more to come, but by now it doesn’t make sense to ask him to protect a rider in 8th place and 5 minutes down.

Apparently Remco said after today’s stage that Almeida will be free.

What does that matter when you lose more time in one bad day, than someone else in 3 bad days, lol.
And yes, i know what Remco said, i posted it here on this page ^ a previous page.

 

[limak_]

This is simply not true. he was at the back when the final steep part of the climb came.
Remco climbed 4 minutes faster in the first week, but that doesn't count? It only counts when Almeida is stronger?
The only thing Almeida has been consistently better at this Giro, is gravel and descending.

Ok, sorry my mistake. Anyway the pace until the final part wasn't very strong, so Remco dropping back as soon as the proper % comes is still an obvious sign of his wekaness. So it doesn't really invalidates the points I made.

Yes, loosing 4 minutes in the first week of the GT, because of having one single bad day counts much less that being gradually weaker from stage to stage, just as the biggest mountains are to come with biggest gaps between riders anticipated.

They expected him to improve over 3 weeks due to his short prep? Where did you hear that? I (and likely anyone who has any idea about sport physiology) would expect him to gradually weaken due to the increasing fatigue and additional lack of preparation. It's not like he could use first 2 weeks as a training to improve his shape and peak in 3rd week. Sorry, but it's a complete nonsense that I see totally impossible to be assumed by anyone.

 

[carolina]

well, they did destroy his podium chances so doesnt really matter from now on

Why is podium the only thing that matters? I would say 5th or 6th would be a great result, considering this year the competition is much stronger then last year.

He should continue to ride for the GC. Even with the time lost, if he manages to stay with stronger guys during the climbs it will show some improvement from last year and he should gain some time on the TT. He's so young, getting more experience riding for GC is important.

I just hope Remco's words are true and Almeida can do his own race. This soap opera will finally end and then we can get ready for part 2 at La Vuelta

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ok, sorry my mistake. Anyway the pace until the final part wasn't very strong, so Remco dropping back as soon as the proper % comes is still an obvious sign of his wekaness. So it doesn't really invalidates the points I made.

Yes, loosing 4 minutes in the first week of the GT, because of having one single bad day counts much less that being gradually weaker from stage to stage, just as the biggest mountains are to come with biggest gaps between riders anticipated.

They expected him to improve over 3 weeks due to his short prep? Where did you hear that? I (and likely anyone who has any idea about sport physiology) would expect him to gradually weaken due to the increasing fatigue and additional lack of preparation. It's not like he could use first 2 weeks as a training to improve his shape and peak in 3rd week. Sorry, but it's a complete nonsense that I see totally impossible to be assumed by anyone.

Yes, because the first week was not that difficult, there was speculation he could use it to ride further into form.

Yes, one bad day in the first week, on an "easy" stage losing 4+ minutes was not calculated. So they made a decision. Evenepoel 's first bad day was 100% due to the sterrati and his lack of skills, not due to his form. In fact it's quite reasonable to think that that stage drained him and is part of the reason why he is so bad now. Ironically, that would have meant had Almeida done what he promised, and started helping Evenepoel sooner instead of letting him dangle on his own for 10 minutes, that not only would both Evenepoel and Almeida have lost less time in that stage, but Evenepoel would not have struggled as much on Zoncolan, which in turn again cost Almeida time.

Having to pass at 25% gradients after 12km of climbing is sign that he isn't in his best form. But it is something else entirely than not being able to follow at the start of the easy part of the climb. Wouldn't you say?

 

[Anderis]

Not that I'm going to defend Almeida, but honestly:

Evenepoel 's first bad day was 100% due to the sterrati and his lack of skills, not due to his form. In fact it's quite reasonable to think that that stage drained him and is part of the reason why he is so bad now. Ironically, that would have meant had Almeida done what he promised, and started helping Evenepoel sooner instead of letting him dangle on his own for 10 minutes, that not only would both Evenepoel and Almeida have lost less time in that stage, but Evenepoel would not have struggled as much on Zoncolan, which in turn again cost Almeida time.

this sounds like a lot of mental gimnastics in order to push a certain () narrative.

 

[Leinster]

What does that matter when you lose more time in one bad day, than someone else in 3 bad days, lol.
And yes, i know what Remco said, i posted it here on this page ^ a previous page.

Sorry, I missed it. Kinda skimming the thread.

And it’s not by much; Almeida finished 4’21 behind Bernal on his bad day, and now sits 8’30 behind the leader. So half of his current deficit is from waiting for Remco.

 

[Bonimenier]

Sorry, I missed it. Kinda skimming the thread.

And it’s not by much; Almeida finished 4’21 behind Bernal on his bad day, and now sits 8’30 behind the leader. So half of his current deficit is from waiting for Remco.

That's not how it works. That's implying that he would have followed Bernal everywhere which seems highly unlikely and wasn't even the case on the stage that Bernal won where Almeida rode for his own.

 

[limak_]

[...] it's quite reasonable to think that that stage drained him and is part of the reason why he is so bad now {...] had Almeida done what he promised, and started helping Evenepoel sooner [... ]Evenepoel would not have struggled as much on Zoncolan, which in turn again cost Almeida time.

Oh man, I think you went waaay too far with your deduction here.

Anyway I really admire (no irony) how you're literally always able to find a counterargument and your ability to intimidate the discussion opponents by your complex and twisted (but not illogical at any point!) explanations Seems like the discussion with you could be endless.

 

[Leinster]

That's not how it works. That's implying that he would have followed Bernal everywhere which seems highly unlikely and wasn't even the case on the stage that Bernal won where Almeida rode for his own.

I was responding to an oversimplification with my own oversimplification. Neither will ever hold completely true, obviously.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not that I'm going to defend Almeida, but honestly:

this sounds like a lot of mental gimnastics in order to push a certain () narrative.

Oh man, I think you went waaay too far with your deduction here.

Anyway I really admire (no irony) how you're literally always able to find a counterargument and your ability to intimidate the discussion opponents by your complex and twisted (but not illogical at any point!) explanations Seems like the discussion with you could be endless.

Both van Aert and van der Poel stated that going so deep in Tirreno, especially the hilly stage where Pogacar nearly caught van der Poel and van Aert closed the gap from nearly 4 to less than 1 minute, had an adverse effect on their entire classics preparation. So no, it's not too far fetched at all, to say that going too deep in that stage, could have an adverse effect on the result on the steepest climb in the Giro, three days later. Especially for Evenepoel who only had a narrow base due to his short preparation.

 

[limak_]

Both van Aert and van der Poel stated that going so deep in Tirreno, especially the hilly stage where Pogacar nearly caught van der Poel and van Aert closed the gap from nearly 4 to less than 1 minute, had an adverse effect on their entire classics preparation. So no, it's not too far fetched at all, to say that going too deep in that stage, could have an adverse effect on the result on the steepest climb in the Giro, three days later. Especially for Evenepoel who only had a narrow base due to his short preparation.

The point is, you directly implied that if Remco hadn't had to ride alone for that exact 10 minutes (you weren't talking about a stage as a whole as you're doing now), he would've done better on Zoncolan. That is the exact part of your post that me and @Anderis reffered to.

Going deep almost every single day during 1 week race vs doing a few strong efforts on one stage is also not comparable at all.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Realistically Evenepoel will still need a bit of help from Almeida on week 3.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The point is, you directly implied that if Remco hadn't had to ride alone for that exact 10 minutes (you weren't talking about a stage as a whole as you're doing now), he would've done better on Zoncolan. That is the exact part of your post that me and @Anderis reffered to.

Going deep almost every single day during 1 week race vs doing a few strong efforts on one stage is also not comparable at all.

Those 10 minutes might have put him over the edge, after a hard day that had him push his limits. Especially since the race wasn't over after those 10 minutes. The context was implied, i assumed you knew the race lasted longer than 10 minutes. You think van Aert and van der Poel can't do a 30k solo? It's not "just" that effort, it's that effort on top of racing on the edge day after day. And you may laugh at it, no problem. I'm pretty sure had Evenepoel had better support that day, hadn't Almeida dawdled like he did before helping, that Evenepoel wouldn't have gone so deep, maybe they could even have bridged the gap to the favorites group, we 'll never know. In any case, we can be sure he would have lost less time, which also means Almeida would have lost less time. So whether or not you think there is any merit in the hypothesis that that effort cost Evenepoel a better result on Zoncolan, the fact is that Almeida himself would have been closer to his coveted top 10 than he is now. And that's basically his own fault.

Realistically Evenepoel will still need a bit of help from Almeida on week 3.

Let's say, by that time that Almeida has (nearly) caught Evenepoel and is just as likely to get into the top 10, or if Almeida could go for a stagewin, then i don't think they should ask Almeida to help. If there is nothing left to gain for Almeida (no stage, no top 10) and Evenepoel has something to fight for, then sure.

 

[trevim]

Being Portuguese, I am definitely biased towards Almeida but I can understand that he may be upset at the current status and the way he has been treated leading up to this race. He obviously has some character and ego but I never found him disrespectful and it’s actually quite refreshing to have Portuguese riders that aren’t happy just being domestiques like Paulinho or Oliveira.

While I agree that Remco’s potential is much higher, Almeida has taken a very creditable 4th place last year, with the pressure of the maglia rosa for two weeks, a very mature ride on the Stelvio where much more experienced riders lost so much time. João kept his coolness, ride within his limits and still had the legs to crawl himself back to podium contention in the next day. That’s pretty remarkable for a kid who is not even a pure climber.

Regardless of how the contract negotiations went with DQT, Lefevere was way out of his place threatening publicly to send him home and put the bike in truck if he didn’t work for the team, even before the start of the race. That’s how you treat small kids not a professional bike rider.

As for Remco himself, he’s a kid and sometimes I get a little bit too much of a Ronaldo type of vibe from him which I personally don’t like at all: sure you’re the star, you’ll score the goals but the team is essential. He’ll have the time to learn how to treat his teammates and motivate them to ride themselves to the ground for him. Maybe it’s not such a good a idea to go after bonus seconds just to go ahead your teammate, it’s a 3-week race, 2s will likely make no difference. When your co-leader loses 4 min, it’s not cool to state you’re the sole leader even if you are, showing some empathy goes a long way.

As for the tactical decisions from DQT, I generally think they were spot on and João is doing what he’s asked. But I totally agree if he doesn’t have a smile to the face, he hasn’t been treated with the respect he deserved.

 

[limak_]

Ok, even if we're talking in the context of the whole stage. Whether or not Almeida dropped back to Evenepoel sooner, the effort Remco had to do later on that stage would've been exactly the same with the only difference that they could've lost less time. And I'm not buying this "on top of the race effort" idea.

Almeida himself would have been closer to his coveted top 10 than he is now. And that's basically his own fault.

So when Almeida decided not to wait for Remco on that day, in fact he should've thought of sth like "it's better for me to wait for Remco straightaway because then we'll both loose less time and I'll be in a better position in GC, just in case Remco would drop hard on Zoncolan which would mean that I can finally ride for myself"

How could've he not thought about that?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ok, even if we're talking in the context of the whole stage. Whether or not Almeida dropped back to Evenepoel sooner, the effort Remco had to do later on that stage would've been exactly the same with the only difference that they could've lost less time. And I'm not buying this "on top of the race effort" idea.

So when Almeida decided not to wait for Remco on that day, in fact he should've thought of sth like "it's better for me to wait for Remco straightaway because then we'll both loose less time and I'll be in a better position in GC, just in case Remco would drop hard on Zoncolan which would mean that I can finally ride for myself"

How could've he not thought about that?

No, the effort would not have been exactly the same after that effort. Had Almeida stayed with Evenepoel all the time, he could have helped him to bridge small gaps. Evenepoel would not have wasted so much energy, and neither would Almeida. It's possible that they would only have had to close a gap of 5, 10 or 15 seconds in order to bridge. But because he waited, the effort was much bigger for Evenepoel and bridging was out of the question. When you are drained of energy, whatever comes next is much worse. When you are doing a 10k climb, and you attack at the foot of the climb, the effect is completely different from waiting for the final 500m to launch your attack. If you attack at the foot of the climb, chances are you will be suffering a lot harder the rest of the climb.

When Almeida decided to not do his job, he shouldn't have thought about Evenepoel being dropped on Zoncolan, he should simply have done his fcking job. And it would have been in his own best interest, because then he would not have lost 2 minutes that day. Maybe even no time at all, maybe a bit of time, but always less than the 2 minutes he lost, had he simply done his job. I'm sorry it didn't work out for him, that he lost his chances because of a bad day, but what happened next was a logical conclusion, and i'm not going to feel sorry for him losing time, since he is at fault himself.

 

[jfazendeiro]

No, the effort would not have been exactly the same after that effort. Had Almeida stayed with Evenepoel all the time, he could have helped him to bridge small gaps. Evenepoel would not have wasted so much energy, and neither would Almeida. It's possible that they would only have had to close a gap of 5, 10 or 15 seconds in order to bridge. But because he waited, the effort was much bigger for Evenepoel and bridging was out of the question. When you are drained of energy, whatever comes next is much worse. When you are doing a 10k climb, and you attack at the foot of the climb, the effect is completely different from waiting for the final 500m to launch your attack. If you attack at the foot of the climb, chances are you will be suffering a lot harder the rest of the climb.

When Almeida decided to not do his job, he shouldn't have thought about Evenepoel being dropped on Zoncolan, he should simply have done his fcking job. And it would have been in his own best interest, because then he would not have lost 2 minutes that day. Maybe even no time at all, maybe a bit of time, but always less than the 2 minutes he lost, had he simply done his job. I'm sorry it didn't work out for him, that he lost his chances because of a bad day, but what happened next was a logical conclusion, and i'm not going to feel sorry for him losing time, since he is at fault himself.

Evenpoel was not going to bridge that day even if he had Cancellara with him.

 

[Savant12]

#FreeAlmeida needs to be allowed to go for stage victories instead of babysitting an out-of-form Remco.

 

[Roku]

I still don't understand. Almeida lost time the whole first week. 4 minutes in Sestola, 30 secs in San Giacomo and even in the gimmick stage (a.k.a. Rocca di Cambio) he lost time with Remco.

It seems the best he could have achieved without domestique duties is a bottom Top10 placing. Top7 is unreachable for him barring any abandon. Whereas he had a contender for winning / podium in his team. There is no way you give a green light for anyone sitting 4 minutes outside the Top10 while having a teanmate who is fighting for the win or podium. It's not like Remco dropped on the first slopes of a four mountain passes raid.

Some people also forget how he was dropped like a stone last year in Stelvio, while also losing time in Piancavallo and almost every mountain finish. He is likely to lose serious time on Passo Giau. He is a great time-triallist who also performs very well on medium mountain stages, but he isn't a good climber at all.

 

[ExperienPT]

When Almeida lost 4 minutes, he dropped at the same time as Foss who lost only 1.30, he was desolate cause the team has clearly abandoned him, and he kinda give up on that stage, he finished without any struggling face (ok not a smart move, but understandable).

And why did the team gave up on him?

Because the belgian prodigy wanted to be the only leader, and it was easier to make Almeida work if he was out of GC contention. I think they loved Almeida dropping that day, he solved them a problem (or they thought so at the time), but the belgian prodigy was not in shape (mentally and physically, ohhh what a surprise) and now is being shamed by Almeida, stage after stage, showing everyone how weak and far away he is from the old Remco, maybe that old Remco is "no more" for good, or maybe until the end of the year he will be kicking ass, but for now he is out of it!

 

[Blanco]

Almeida’s only had one bad day so far this Giro. Evenepoel has had 3 and counting. It’s obviously possible that Almeida may have more to come, but by now it doesn’t make sense to ask him to protect a rider in 8th place and 5 minutes down.

Apparently Remco said after today’s stage that Almeida will be free.

So Remco gave promission to Almeida to ride his own race I guess Almeida will be pissed even more!

 

[ExperienPT]

Remco is not the team though, he can say whatever he wants but he is not in charge... or is he? ahah

 

[Cian]

I still don't understand. Almeida lost time the whole first week. 4 minutes in Sestola, 30 secs in San Giacomo and even in the gimmick stage (a.k.a. Rocca di Cambio) he lost time with Remco.

It seems the best he could have achieved without domestique duties is a bottom Top10 placing. Top7 is unreachable for him barring any abandon. Whereas he had a contender for winning / podium in his team. There is no way you give a green light for anyone sitting 4 minutes outside the Top10 while having a teanmate who is fighting for the win or podium. It's not like Remco dropped on the first slopes of a four mountain passes raid.

Some people also forget how he was dropped like a stone last year in Stelvio, while also losing time in Piancavallo and almost every mountain finish. He is likely to lose serious time on Passo Giau. He is a great time-triallist who also performs very well on medium mountain stages, but he isn't a good climber at all.

While he did lose minutes on the Stelvio last year, he was still 4th behind the podium finishers on the other two important mountain stages to Piancavallo and Sestriere.
These are amazing results for someone who apparently isn't a good climber at all.