Joe Papp pleads guilty to distributing drugs, pt 2

[chase196126]

Get some perspective. In my eyes the guy who was molesting children is way ahead in the biggest scum stakes. Joe isn't even in the running.

The Outside Magazine article paints a picture of quite a conflicted person, still in the grip of the frivolous and rather childish 'bling' values of the cycling world. It is 'disappointing' that he continued to sell after the Landis trial, but not unforgivable IMO. Shaking off the influence of a culture you have been exposed to for years is not necessarily an instantaneous (or painless) process.

Nobody can deny that his confessions have made a contribution to exposing and understanding doping in pro cycling. As such, it is likely that those confessions will contribute to deterring others from going down the same path. Shooting the messenger is counterproductive.

You certainly have me there. I totally agree that molesting children is certainly worse in every way. I should have made it more clear I was refering to doping cases only.

On the other hand, I do not agree with your belief that Joe will deter riders from doping. What will riders think of his statements now? Doping ruined Joes life, yet he continued to deal the drugs? I personally cannot take anyone with that level of hypocrisy seriously.

I don’t understand where all the trust and admiration for Joe comes from on this forum. Just because he talking about how HE doped posters on this forum take his word for gospel, yet when Tom Zirble is candid and forward about his doping case, while proclaiming his innocence, he is thrown under the bus as a liar and cheat. Looks like Joe has been lying, just like every other doper that gets blasted on this forum.

 

[flicker]

I read 30 words of his posts on cycling news and felt as if I had been robbed of 10 seconds of my life.

Anyone who reads what that dirtbag Joe Papp has written.... well you are as naive or dumb as Greg LeMond. LeMond had 7 tour victories in him. Robbed of one by his coach the one who was with Hinault and told Greg to hold back. Three more if he had not been shot by bro in law (X). Greg blames EPO hah!

Greg, you sold your talent short.

Read my lips cycling: a rich tradition of doping. Greg still doesn't get it.
For the rest of you posters out there get with it. There are thousands of Joe Papps out there. Teach your children to avoid them. Find the wisdom to read through them....and run! Don't look back do not collect $200.

And after all I have done for you people....

 

[Race Radio]

Who in the hell would deal/buy over the internet?! Seriously...come on! You are begging to get caught! If you are doing it after testing positive, while testifying...WOW!

There used to be this site on the internet http://www.eposino.com. It is taken down now but they sole EPO, gave advice on doping. All kinds of stuff.

 

[nfmcgrath]

"This is an interesting blog about his deal, incriminating himself during the hearing, and interviewing as a drug distributer: http://rant-your-head-off.com/WordPress/?p=356"

I read that piece and it appears to suggest that Joe outed himself as being a dealer while on the stand at the Landis hearing. If that's the case he wasn't dealing after testifying at the Landis hearing.

I think what makes so many people (on this forum) disappointed in this is that Joe is/was seen as being honest once he got caught and had decided that coming clean was the best way for him to start over. I don't know Joe, to tell you the truth I never heard of him until he was busted. I would like to hear him speak about it before I come a conclusion, right now I will admit it doesn't look good.

 

[Anonymous]

Who in the hell would deal/buy over the internet?! Seriously...come on! You are begging to get caught! If you are doing it after testing positive, while testifying...WOW!

AS said before, its much easier to hide transactions and disguise identities and transactions than the tradition ways etc. Think about it..

if you wanted to deal epo to another rider do you do the paper bags in hotels, put money in each others accounts, or do you use the internet to disguise things.. its common sense..

 

[MacRoadie]

I read 30 words of his posts on cycling news and felt as if I had been robbed of 10 seconds of my life.

Anyone who reads what that dirtbag Joe Papp has written.... well you are as naive or dumb as Greg LeMond. LeMond had 7 tour victories in him. Robbed of one by his coach the one who was with Hinault and told Greg to hold back. Three more if he had not been shot by bro in law (X). Greg blames EPO hah!

Greg, you sold your talent short.

Read my lips cycling: a rich tradition of doping. Greg still doesn't get it.
For the rest of you posters out there get with it. There are thousands of Joe Papps out there. Teach your children to avoid them. Find the wisdom to read through them....and run! Don't look back do not collect $200.

And after all I have done for you people....

And here I thought this was a thread about Joe Papp.

As for your "well you are as naive or dumb as Greg LeMond" comment, you know better than that. Over and over you've proven yourself to be an expert on the many degrees and nuances of stupidity so you must know that Greg is neither naive nor dumb.

 

[pmsc111]

Will the customers be pursued? I assume it's illegal to purchase these products in this manner.

 

[No Chain]

AS said before, its much easier to hide transactions and disguise identities and transactions than the tradition ways etc. Think about it..

if you wanted to deal epo to another rider do you do the paper bags in hotels, put money in each others accounts, or do you use the internet to disguise things.. its common sense..

No, it is not easier. It is THE most traceable transaction there is! I don't care how many transactions you have done...someone is watching. Ridiculously stupid!!!

 

[Escarabajo]

There used to be this site on the internet http://www.eposino.com. It is taken down now but they sole EPO, gave advice on doping. All kinds of stuff.

And what this picture has to do with EPO? Marketing is incredible.

 

[No Chain]

There used to be this site on the internet http://www.eposino.com. It is taken down now but they sole EPO, gave advice on doping. All kinds of stuff.

Thanks Race. I know guys that do this for bodybuilding. It just amazes me. Inevitably, they get big enough or deal to the wrong person and get nailed.

I just can't see how the risk would EVER be worth it?

 

[Polish]

Will the customers be pursued? I assume it's illegal to purchase these products in this manner.

The judge may need to issue an International Arrest Warrant for those customers that live outside the USA. If any of Joe's customers are French, maybe we could do a prisoner exchange?

Of course, a TdF winner is worth much much more than a one-to-one trade.

 

[Anonymous]

No, it is not easier. It is THE most traceable transaction there is! I don't care how many transactions you have done...someone is watching. Ridiculously stupid!!!

I disagree, plenty of hosts in countries that wont release information, plenty of banks and money handling companies that are beyond the law, plenty of ways to mask identities and information.. Far easier than trying to dodge prying eyes, press and everything else..

 

[Anonymous]

There used to be this site on the internet http://www.eposino.com. It is taken down now but they sole EPO, gave advice on doping. All kinds of stuff.

this one?

it ran 2007-2008

 

[Race Radio]

this one?

it ran 2007-2008

That is it.

Nothing hides from the wayback machine.

 

[IntheMidwest]

Seriously for a second, getting back to Joe P, I was trying to rationalize why he would be involved with this after he has no career left at all in cycling? Maybe that's it, he realized back when his career ended that he can earn a living selling EPO and HGH and although conflicted as it may be, what was he supposed to do, go hungry? Live on the street?

Dude should have manned up and made an honest living without being such a hypocrit in the end. But what I don't understand is why he would desire to come off as being an anti-doping advocate when in reality, doesn't that just hurt his 'business'? Thoughts?

 

[HelmutRoole]

No, it is not easier. It is THE most traceable transaction there is! I don't care how many transactions you have done...someone is watching. Ridiculously stupid!!!

Dude, you're ridiculously stupid. The steroid business thrives on the internet because people aren't getting busted, not because they are.

It's done through Western Union. You send a money gram to some guy in Istanbul. You enter the control number for that money gram back at the web site you purchased from. The guy in Istanbul collects money for a living. He takes a percentage and deposits the rest in a bank account. He's down there every day with 50, 60 control numbers collecting money, skimming and depositing. The lab, the guy running it... he's here in the United States, dude. They ain't getting caught. What? Some Turkish police officer going to come knocking on their door?

Did you think they were using a credit card?

Now that would be stupid.

 

[Race Radio]

Dude, you're ridiculously stupid. The steroid business thrives on the internet because people aren't getting busted, not because they are.

It's done through Western Union. You send a money gram to some guy in Istanbul. You enter the control number for that money gram back at the web site you purchased from. The guy in Istanbul collects money for a living. He takes a percentage and deposits the rest in a bank account. He's down there every day with 50, 60 control numbers collecting money, skimming and depositing. The lab, the guy running it... he's here in the United States, dude. They ain't getting caught. What? Some Turkish police officer going to come knocking on their door?

Did you think they were using a credit card?

Now that would be stupid.

Sounds like you have some experience with this.

And I always thought the internet was just porn.

 

[patricknd]

Seriously for a second, getting back to Joe P, I was trying to rationalize why he would be involved with this after he has no career left at all in cycling? Maybe that's it, he realized back when his career ended that he can earn a living selling EPO and HGH and although conflicted as it may be, what was he supposed to do, go hungry? Live on the street?

Dude should have manned up and made an honest living without being such a hypocrit in the end. But what I don't understand is why he would desire to come off as being an anti-doping advocate when in reality, doesn't that just hurt his 'business'? Thoughts?

i think it's called hiding in plain sight.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

...I do not agree with your belief that Joe will deter riders from doping. What will riders think of his statements now... I personally cannot take anyone with that level of hypocrisy seriously...

I see Joe's story as more of a cautionary tale than a shining example of honesty. The wording I used was "contribute to deterring others from going down the same path." There are any number of ways that could happen, including individuals deciding that pro-cycling is a bunch of @rse and they would be better off doing something else with their youth.

Ideally, many of Joe's customers would also get sanctioned, increasing the perceived risks of getting caught, which would be an effective deterrent. Sadly the authorities enthusiasm for pursuing such a course is underwhelming.

... I don’t understand where all the trust and admiration for Joe comes from on this forum... Just because he talking about how HE doped posters on this forum take his word for gospel

I think the attitude is more empathy for someone who phucked up big time, but with considerable help from the fine traditions of pro cycling, than blind-faith admiration.

 

[Race Radio]

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/

As usual Lindsey has a good review of this. Perhaps Mr. Papp was not being entirely straight forward about his actions.

He is in some serious trouble.

 

[knewcleardaze]

There used to be this site on the internet http://www.eposino.com. It is taken down now but they sole EPO, gave advice on doping. All kinds of stuff.

That site is back in business. The pharmacy is open!
EPO... for lab use only, hahahahah.

 

[knewcleardaze]

Is he going to jail?
He probably made a deal for probation.
Or maybe a little jail time, a little probation.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

... I was trying to rationalize why he would be involved with this after he has no career left at all in cycling?

It's certainly a very strange decision he made. Could be based on anything from financial panic to a bitter effort to get something back out of a system that phucked him over, or a bizarre attempt to entrap other athletes and make sure he didn't take the entire fall alone...(or hiding in plain sight. Joe, say it isn't so!

Actually I will be surprised if he turns up to explain it to us, in a recent post he indicated that he was back on the forum a short time only, that makes more sense now.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And what this picture has to do with EPO? Marketing is incredible.

Is that the Ricco family?

 

[knewcleardaze]

And what this picture has to do with EPO? Marketing is incredible.

Wow honey, HGH is even better than Viagra! And we just gotta try this EPO stuff!