Joe Papp pleads guilty to distributing drugs, pt 2

[fatandfast]

That's the big joke, if you come clean they hammer you as hard as they can, they don't let you keep anything - see Dwayne Chambers. If you lie and keep lying, all is forgiven just keep on as normal after a couple of years rest. Why the f*** would you break the omerta? 'Doing the right thing' is stupid.

Wish you were wrong.

 

[The Crusher]

If this is true, that's really bad. Still not in the same league as the ones enjoying a luxury life based on a lie. I see some of his defenders coming out to attack Joe. I know he has done bad but not like others.

That's a really odd sentiment. If what's being said is true, then he was trying to build a life of, well comfort if not luxury, based on the lie that he used to be dirty but had now confessed his soul and was pure as the driven snow.

And you say he has done bad, but not like others? In our legal system, we consider dealers as vastly worse than users. And I've seen many people say here and in other places that to really make a dent in the doping, we need to go after the infrastructure instead of the riders.

If true, one could make the argument that this is the worst cycling case ever, even if it isn't as newsworthy as a Lance of Floyd story would be. Right now the best hope is that the facts are wrong, the time period was wrong, and his confession and contrition were genuine. If that's not the case, then this is a vastly greater betrayal than just another doping athlete.

 

[Kennf1]

So surely the identities of the 187 customers are known (which is a number that surprises even a cynic like me). The question is, what, if anything, happens next. Does USADA open up investigations on those who are in the U.S.?

Wonder how many of those customers were Cat.3 or masters.

 

[Anonymous]

Well now I feel like an idiot. Was it nice to have your ego stroked as an example of a decent, contrite ex-doper who has seen the light while laughing at us fools willing to give you a second chance, Joe?

Enjoy prison, say hi to Bubba for me.

 

[Escarabajo]

...
And you say he has done bad, but not like others? In our legal system, we consider dealers as vastly worse than users. And I've seen many people say here and in other places that to really make a dent in the doping, we need to go after the infrastructure instead of the riders.

...

I meant at least he is confessing. And that's always a plus in my books. The fact that he seemed repentant and still dealing at the time that he was testifying against Landis makes it look really bad.

I want to hear it from him in this forum.

 

[fatandfast]

Well now I feel like an idiot. Was it nice to have your ego stroked as an example of a decent, contrite ex-doper who has seen the light while laughing at us fools willing to give you a second chance, Joe?

Enjoy prison, say hi to Bubba for me.

Joe's written illumination will be used to show that since 2007 he has turned over a new leaf. He has written about the evil's of drugs,while trying to get a new life. The US has some funny laws that make it hard if not impossible to profit from a crime(book,screen play,blog,ect) Joe may find it a challenge in the near future . Should he have typed in his posts or blog that back in the day I also used to deal?

 

[The Crusher]

So surely the identities of the 187 customers are known (which is a number that surprises even a cynic like me). The question is, what, if anything, happens next. Does USADA open up investigations on those who are in the U.S.?

Not so surely. Reports said he was selling over the internet. That might make it harder to figure out actual identities.

But also, I'm not sure if the authorities would bother. Politically, the prosecutor (who some here claims is now running for congress) would be well-served by such a great public spectacle, especially if it happened to turn up some big names. But neither EPO nor HGH are controlled substances as far as I know. I'm not sure what legal excuse would be used to chase down these people.

 

[IntheMidwest]

I feel sorry for the guy (Joe) in a way, but in reality he's really no different than a crack or weed dealer. I can't recall immediately if Joe ever claimed he was doped by his team without knowledge of what was being put into his body, but buying on his own from China really kindof debunks all that. On a lighter note, that'd be hilarious if FL was on the list ....

 

[ravens]

I meant at least he is confessing. And that's always a plus in my books. The fact that he seemed repentant and still dealing at the time that he was testifying against Landis makes it look really bad.

I want to hear it from him in this forum.

Was he posting as something other than 'Joe Papp' ? I just did a search for any posts and it says there is no such user.

 

[Anonymous]

Joe's written illumination will be used to show that since 2007 he has turned over a new leaf. He has written about the evil's of drugs,while trying to get a new life. The US has some funny laws that make it hard if not impossible to profit from a crime(book,screen play,blog,ect) Joe may find it a challenge in the near future . Should he have typed in his posts or blog that back in the day I also used to deal?

Maybe he should have, yes, if he wanted to be open and honest. The thing is, why should we believe him now? And if he was willing to effectively lie to Court back then, why should we think he would not lie to us now to try to make some cash from being "reformed"? If losing his career, family etc didn't stop him dealing then, what lesson was there left to learn to make him see the light subsequently?

Or had he seen the light but was still willing to pass it on to other people?

Anyway, he's now just another ex-doper in my eyes. I just hope his client list is released.

 

[Aapjes]

Was he posting as something other than 'Joe Papp' ? I just did a search for any posts and it says there is no such user.

The username is joe_papp

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/member.php?u=2469

 

[Anonymous]

Was he posting as something other than 'Joe Papp' ? I just did a search for any posts and it says there is no such user.

Nevermind, ignore me!

 

[ravens]

The username is joe_papp

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/member.php?u=2469

Thx!

http://joepapp.blogspot.com/2010/02/regarding-todays-news.html

 

[davidg]

This is going to be an interesting thread.

I look forward to seeing all the comments from people who were saying what a good guy Joe was for 'coming clean'. Seems like he only confessed to what was going to be found out anyway. Hardly a purging of the soul.

And now we find he was dealing over the internet. Possibly some of those PEDs might have gone to minors. Who knows, Joe certainly didn't care. He was chasing the mightly greenback.

So is it better to have confessed about your own use, but conveniently omitted to tell about dealing, than to not confess about buying just for yourself.

Carry on.

 

[Race Radio]

I do not think anyone is under the delusion that Papp came clean on his own. It was well known that he only talked after he was caught. It is also well know that Papp was dealing as this is what helped catch Leogrande. As with most criminal investigations I doubt you would see a key witness with over 150 customers talking about an investigation.

The only outstanding question is when he stopped? Was Papp dealing while he working on a plea deal?

 

[Lifeshape]

Classic example of talking to the fuzz. First one to talk, gets a deal. I don't know Joe, but I think I know people. Even the most self-righteous do wrong. I think something was looming over him and he had to start singing before someone else did. Otherwise, what's the motivation to talk?

 

[the truth.]

hmmmmmm.
dont trust a doper.

read his recent interviews and was refreshed by his statements. a glimmer of hope.

the date line with the landis hearing isnt so much an issue as Papp just spoke on the added effects of test. hormone. nothing else.

The 187 athletes he helped to cheat. it they couldnt get hold of PED's...they mightn't have went down the dark path. shame

 

[The Crusher]

The only outstanding question is when he stopped? Was Papp dealing while he working on a plea deal?

Agreed. After a little research, I see his two-year suspension came just after the Landis hearing, in late May 2007. So are reports of his dealing time frame correct or not?

This is an interesting blog about his deal, incriminating himself during the hearing, and interviewing as a drug distributer: http://rant-your-head-off.com/WordPress/?p=356

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Joe does not deserve a single apologist sentiment if the dates stated in the article are true. In my eyes this evidence, if true, makes him bigger scum than just about any rider I can think of.

Get some perspective. In my eyes the guy who was molesting children is way ahead in the biggest scum stakes. Joe isn't even in the running.

The Outside Magazine article paints a picture of quite a conflicted person, still in the grip of the frivolous and rather childish 'bling' values of the cycling world. It is 'disappointing' that he continued to sell after the Landis trial, but not unforgivable IMO. Shaking off the influence of a culture you have been exposed to for years is not necessarily an instantaneous (or painless) process.

Nobody can deny that his confessions have made a contribution to exposing and understanding doping in pro cycling. As such, it is likely that those confessions will contribute to deterring others from going down the same path. Shooting the messenger is counterproductive.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmm, if Joe was so intent about coming clean about his past I wonder why he never mentioned this "little detail" in his blog or any recent interview. .

Joe has several times in posts said that he cannot comment further, or cannot say something because of the upcoming court case. I assume some of those refers to things like this.

So is it better to have confessed about your own use, but conveniently omitted to tell about dealing, than to not confess about buying just for yourself.

Carry on.

With an impending court case, i find it likely that you cannot discuss facts related to the case on a public forum.

Im sure the truth will come out in the end, it usually does.. (except in cycling maybe)

As for the news, im completely unsurprised and almost indifferent to it. Where did people think riders got stuff from, your at the top you use it, youre at the bottom you supply it. Joe is just one of many many many.

I think the internet thing is interesting, theres two ways it could be viewed, a website where any old tom d1ck and harry can buy it, or just a way of arranging transactions.. Its much easier to mask transactions, deal with things anonymously using the internet than brown paper bags in dodgy backrooms.. Selling over the internet, and using the internet to sell and distribute are very different..

But anyway, not surprised, for every rider on ped's there has to be someone selling or handling the stuff.. why the shock?

 

[HelmutRoole]

So surely the identities of the 187 customers are known (which is a number that surprises even a cynic like me). The question is, what, if anything, happens next. Does USADA open up investigations on those who are in the U.S.?

Wonder how many of those customers were Cat.3 or masters.

Customer #122: Kenny Williams.

 

[mitchman]

Man you can't make stuff up like this........real life is so much better then any book.

Have a good time in jail Joe!

 

[Digger]

For me it all depends on the timeline. I want to be objective here, because Joe has posted on here and been a thorough gentleman in his writings and in his dealings with many of us. However, if the timeline is out, i.e. in relation to the Landis case, then I would find that very hard to fathom. But for the moment I'll say that the guy has suffered enough and what he is looking at must be dreadful. Jail time - god that's rough. But as I said, for me I could completely turn a blind eye to the dealing, as long as it was prior to the hearing. But to stand up in court and still be dealing - that would disappoint me....say it ain't so Joe.........

 

[Digger]

Man you can't make stuff up like this........real life is so much better then any book.

Have a good time in jail Joe!

........no need for that.

 

[No Chain]

Who in the hell would deal/buy over the internet?! Seriously...come on! You are begging to get caught! If you are doing it after testing positive, while testifying...WOW!