Joe Papp pleads guilty to distributing drugs, pt 2

[BroDeal]

you may well be right...guess it depends on what they really want to bust...

I tend to think that it is a matter of probabilities. Yeah, any of the 187 might be tracked down and busted, but the chances of low level buyers getting caught for something that happened three years ago is probably pretty small compared to someone sending a package through the mail today. There is a lot of fish in the sea, so why spend resources on a case that will be a harder prosecution than one where the target can be caught red handed with the package.

As I said above, looking at the Leogrande case, Joe may not have used a lot of security, at least not with people he knew personally.

On a tangent, whatever happened with the Leogrande case? At the time he was suspended various people involved in the case said that the public did not know the full story and it would come out in the future.

 

[Anonymous]

I tend to think that it is a matter of probabilities. Yeah, any of the 187 might be tracked down and busted, but the chances of low level buyers getting caught for something that happened three years ago is probably pretty small compared to someone sending a package through the mail today. There is a lot of fish in the sea, so why spend resources on a case that will be a harder prosecution than one where the target can be caught red handed with the package.

As I said above, looking at the Leogrande case, Joe may not have used a lot of security, at least not with people he knew personally.

On a tangent, whatever happened with the Leogrande case? At the time he was suspended various people involved in the case said that the public did not know the full story and it would come out in the future.

That's a good point - any people Joe knew personally (and I would assume therefore the higher level buyers - pro cyclists etc) would not use the website. I would think the only people who bought through the website were small-time amateur saddo's wanting a boost to win their local cat 3 crit. Therefore, thinking about it, the 187 number and £80k may not be in any way representative of the full extent of the dealing.

 

[Galic Ho]

can't get tw@tter here, but do you mean the whole his account?

so no more illuminating posts about car wash life?

My mate works in Shanghai too. IT. Uses French servers to subvert the Firewall. Facebook and Twittter are both frowned upon. Keep it up.

The Twitter account looks like a fake or if not, looks like it has been hacked.

 

[Prodigy]

It seems some riders are really suffering since Joe Papp closed down his special website.

http://joepapp.blogspot.com/2010/02/r-eading-phil-hecklers-velonews.html

 

[joe_papp]

Good to be back; and a quick question - what'd I miss w/ Fraysse?

I tend to think that it is a matter of probabilities. Yeah, any of the 187 might be tracked down and busted, but the chances of low level buyers getting caught for something that happened three years ago is probably pretty small compared to someone sending a package through the mail today. There is a lot of fish in the sea, so why spend resources on a case that will be a harder prosecution than one where the target can be caught red handed with the package.

As I said above, looking at the Leogrande case, Joe may not have used a lot of security, at least not with people he knew personally.

On a tangent, whatever happened with the Leogrande case? At the time he was suspended various people involved in the case said that the public did not know the full story and it would come out in the future.

Sorry I haven't been able to participate in these discussions. It's safe to say I'm under restrictions that didn't limit me before but are useful now (to protect the most favorable sentencing climate possible).

Haven't been able to read but a few posts - why not just wait for my book? In the meanwhile, start a cyclist's career death pool based on the list of 187 or however many it is.

Ok Gang, it's late, way late, I have much to do. If you think I need to read specific exchanges, please highlight them to me and I will investigate. Likewise, I'll be as engaging as possible given all the darn limits and demands on my time.

Looking forward to posting what I can when I can, but ... you can always wait for the book!

Latest scuttlebutt: why is an old man like Mike Fraysse - my old mentor - trying so hard to cover up doping from 20 years ago such that he's willing to delete entire sections of Wikipedia to do so.

Ciao,

Joe

 

[WD-40.]

Haven't been able to read but a few posts - why not just wait for my book? In the meanwhile, start a cyclist's career death pool based on the list of 187 or however many it is.

I appreciate you having the guts to post here again.

Will you really be handing over the details for the 187 athletes that you worked with?

Best

 

[BroDeal]

... you can always wait for the book!

There will be a book?? Sweet. That is something that would interest me.

It would be nice if you could include information about the effectiveness of various drugs (in quantitative, subjective, and anecdotal terms) and how much difference the improvement makes at the pro level. Aside from numerical increases in watts and such, it would be cool if the numbers were driven home with concrete, real world examples, something in the form of the best undoped time I could ever achieve on a local climb was XX:XX minutes but using EPO I was able to do YY:YY. It would also be nice if you could touch on a subject that is never covered in research literature, which is improvements from multiple drugs.

 

[FKLance]

Thank you mr. Papp. Please tell us, will you be making money off your book? I ask because if i will buy it, i would not want to contribute that money to a former drug dealers new car, but for example charity.

 

[tifosa]

Joe, thanks for the link. Fraysee's Wiki "history" page is very telling in its deletions. Nice that the editorial/meta data trail is still there, though.

On a personal note, years ago I raced in South Africa, and know too well the allure and physical dangers of myriad forms of doping. The fact that I didn't dope does not belie the overwhelming desire to win -- which one has to possess to become a winner. Joe, I understand. Onward!

 

[Jim Jones]

why not just wait for my book?

I'm not against you, Joe, but aren't there laws that prevent criminals profiting from their crimes? How will the book get around that?

 

[Oldman]

Sorry I haven't been able to participate in these discussions. It's safe to say I'm under restrictions that didn't limit me before but are useful now (to protect the most favorable sentencing climate possible).

Haven't been able to read but a few posts - why not just wait for my book? In the meanwhile, start a cyclist's career death pool based on the list of 187 or however many it is.

Ok Gang, it's late, way late, I have much to do. If you think I need to read specific exchanges, please highlight them to me and I will investigate. Likewise, I'll be as engaging as possible given all the darn limits and demands on my time.

Looking forward to posting what I can when I can, but ... you can always wait for the book!

Latest scuttlebutt: why is an old man like Mike Fraysse - my old mentor - trying so hard to cover up doping from 20 years ago such that he's willing to delete entire sections of Wikipedia to do so.

Ciao,

Joe

"Mr" Fraysee ended up with some of our neighborhood's best juniors with the idea of mentoring them to the pro ranks. Between he and the USAC hacks a number of World's level juniors quit the sport entirely. You and I will spare them the embarrassment and memory of that time because they were clean. Hopefully Fraysee is laundering the past to protect the innocent.

 

[BroDeal]

"Mr" Fraysee ended up with some of our neighborhood's best juniors with the idea of mentoring them to the pro ranks. Between he and the USAC hacks a number of World's level juniors quit the sport entirely. You and I will spare them the embarrassment and memory of that time because they were clean. Hopefully Fraysee is laundering the past to protect the innocent.

Is he just trying to delete the entire "doping" section of his Wikipedia bio? Or is he deleting stuff from other wikipedia pages as well?

I assume that the "Cyclingfansanon" user ran cyclingfansanonymous. Good to see CFA still fighting the good fight.

 

[knewcleardaze]

From a quick peek at Fraysee's Wiki page and Fraysee's website, it strikes me like a Carmichael type "training program".

 

[BroDeal]

I missed this interview with Joe, and I don't recall it being posted here. It is mainly about racing in Latin and South America. This leads me to believe that even without a main focus on doping Joe could write a a very interesting book, sort of a more modern and better written Dog in a Hat.

http://cyclinginquisition.blogspot.com/2010/01/interview-joe-papp-discusses-his.html

 

[Hooptie]

Haven't been able to read but a few posts - why not just wait for my book? In the meanwhile, start a cyclist's career death pool based on the list of 187 or however many it is.

Perhaps Joe set up the biz after he got caught specifically to blackmail other riders? I can't imagine he would risk jail time just to name names...could he have done it under the guise of the feds? Wouldn't that be entrapment?

 

[Iron Man Sam]

Do they allow you to have a word processor in an American prison cell? Or does it have to be done long hand?

 

[Big GMaC]

Do they allow you to have a word processor in a British Mental Asylum? Or does it have to be done long hand? I was just wondering for when I am commited and start my epic: 'How to troll' masterpiece

.....................

 

[flicker]

I'm not against you, Joe, but aren't there laws that prevent criminals profiting from their crimes? How will the book get around that?

Jim Jones. I will follow you anywhere. even (Guiena) got any kool-aid?

 

[joe_papp]

I appreciate you having the guts to post here again.

Will you really be handing over the details for the 187 athletes that you worked with?

Best

WD,

I appreciate the fact that you seem impressed that I'm willing to post here again, but I think you give me too much credit or assign the forum too much hostility. It's only natural that I post here again, as I started posting here long after that other business had been concluded. At present, I'm either extremely busy or extremely fatigued to the point that I can't put coherent words together, or if I manage to, that skill is rendered worthless after a single blog post. It's ultimately my fault, but life right now does not allow for those relaxing moments i previously took almost daily in order to write.

Now for the 187 million-dollar question: que tal the names? Well, sorry again but you have to assume that information is out of my hands - it's criminal evidence, property of the US Govt. It's absolutely not up to me what happens to those names, and they didn't come from me in the first place.

That said, as a general rule of thumb, from this point forward I won't be speaking to anything remotely specific about the case until late-June. There are various reasons for this but if you honestly are not sure why that would be, try to find some of the longer versions of the AP article, or even this blog post, which hint at why one would need to remain mum.

This is a challenging moment for me - far less for cycling (it's a sport adept at weathering the storm of doping scandal). It is what it is, but my stance on doping hasn't changed. Doping is horrible, don't do it even though you may be a consenting adult, it's not worth whatever performance gains your realize, esp. because the upside is nothing in comparison to the potential downside (which is limitless; well, it does have a limit - the point at which you can't cope any longer... ).

I stand by my brief statement to cyclingnews.com, which was even then more than my attorney would have had me say.

"What happened today has its origins in a very distant time and place, during a part of my life that long ago closed,” Papp told Cyclingnews. “It's unfortunate in a way, the timing of this announcement, since its somewhat out-of-context and not representative of the person who I've become.

“Having escaped the corrupt system in which doping was a practice as accepted and normal as brushing one's teeth, I strongly believe in clean-sport and for several years have been fighting against doping both publicly and in ways that I simply can't comment on,” he added.


Ok, time to try to go get motivated to do [enter boring, drudgery here]. Have a good night.


JP


PS. Haters can exhaust their fingers and their lungs calling for my assassination or murder, and saying all the mean stuff they like to say about me. I've heard it all during the past three weeks so why waste the bandwidth quoting to me from the e-book, "How to Swear in 35 different languages"? Ciao...

 

[PACONi]

WD,

I appreciate the fact that you seem impressed that I'm willing to post here again, but I think you give me too much credit or assign the forum too much hostility. It's only natural that I post here again, as I started posting here long after that other business had been concluded. At present, I'm either extremely busy or extremely fatigued to the point that I can't put coherent words together, or if I manage to, that skill is rendered worthless after a single blog post. It's ultimately my fault, but life right now does not allow for those relaxing moments i previously took almost daily in order to write.

..

So many one liner's for this comment, where to start?

But seriously, regarding a potential book, I'd be very interested in that. My only concern would be whether you personally profit from the book.

That aside, I hope you can cop whatever punishment is coming on the chin and then rebuild a healthy happy life.

 

[iliveonnitro]

...At present, I'm either extremely busy or extremely fatigued to the point that I can't put coherent words together, or if I manage to, that skill is rendered worthless after a single blog post. It's ultimately my fault, but life right now does not allow for those relaxing moments i previously took almost daily in order to write.

Now for the 187 million-dollar question: que tal the names? Well, sorry again but you have to assume that information is out of my hands - it's criminal evidence, property of the US Govt. It's absolutely not up to me what happens to those names, and they didn't come from me in the first place.

That said, as a general rule of thumb, from this point forward I won't be speaking to anything remotely specific about the case until late-June. There are various reasons for this but if you honestly are not sure why that would be, try to find some of the longer versions of the AP article, or even this blog post, which hint at why one would need to remain mum.

This is a challenging moment for me - far less for cycling (it's a sport adept at weathering the storm of doping scandal). It is what it is, but my stance on doping hasn't changed. Doping is horrible, don't do it even though you may be a consenting adult, it's not worth whatever performance gains your realize, esp. because the upside is nothing in comparison to the potential downside (which is limitless; well, it does have a limit - the point at which you can't cope any longer... ).

I'm finding it impossible to believe the innocence you try to convey in your post. Besides being a pathological liar and cheat, you hint that there are more than the 187 riders on which you refuse to comment. Even your lackluster apology, "It's ultimately my fault" just conveys the message that you are not sorry about doing any of this; you are only sorry for the punishment you should receive.

I also find it amazing that so many of the people here can forgive you for anything you did. They're quick to damn other dopers to hell, but quick to forgive and give condolences to a someone who is more available to them on the internet or in real life? Spare me. Papp wasn't just a doper -- of whom can sometimes be forgiven under proper circumstances -- he was a drug dealer and acted as an unlicensed doping "doctor."

You're a big-time drug dealer, Papp, and if the US laws were anywhere as strict as they are for dealing something like cocaine (which is probably a safer drug than non-medically administered EPO illegally obtained from China), you would sit in jail for much longer than "up to" 5 years.

You got off lucky and you should count your blessings for the lack of punishment that you will receive, and that you certainly deserve.

 

[flicker]

I do not know why anyone who did not dope would want to talk to Papp.

I do not care that he did dope or supplied. In the long run Papp will pay.

I can only assume that the people in the forum who consult with Papp are using or are considering using.

 

[Anonymous]

That said, as a general rule of thumb, from this point forward I won't be speaking to anything remotely specific about the case until late-June.

tick tock tick tock. Still only early April? pfft. tum-te-tum-te-tum.... *repeatedly drums fingers on table*

 

[tubularglue]

Joe,

you have to live with yourself, that said, regarding your potential book - I would be interested in the read.

your story is a train wreck. everyone's got to eat.

good luck