Joe Papp pleads guilty to distributing drugs, pt 2

[Anonymous]

hey, email your buddy Joe...who has just been so honest in his emails to you...so open....bet you he told you he was pleading gulity to selling a hundred grand of illegal drugs yes? But you know, sorry I doubted your email buddy's contrition via federal court...I can have my doubts...

Hey do whatever floats your boat Braveheart. And this is just so you will know why any further response will go un-answered, you will now be ignored. You have shown no reason for me to care about anything you say anywhere. Have fun coward, toodles!

 

[Anonymous]

After reading it, I can understand why. I need to use the rolling eyes emoticon or something next time.

you just have it all down ...don't you thought? christ, you come off like a ***...

 

[Anonymous]

gosh...please do put me on ignore...I would appreciate not hearing your bull**** when I write...so please just shut it...hit ignore.

 

[Anonymous]

"Hey do whatever floats your boat Braveheart. And this is just so you will know why any further response will go un-answered, you will now be ignored. You have shown no reason for me to care about anything you say anywhere. Have fun coward, toodles!"

Yeah...toodles to you mrs.wonderkid starwarwizardofozofewemailbuddyaboutthedopingworld...

 

[BroDeal]

gosh...please do put me on ignore...I would appreciate not hearing your bull**** when I write...so please just shut it...hit ignore.

Uh-oh. Douchey is getting upset.

 

[Anonymous]

Uh-oh. Douchey is getting upset.

Bro...you were defending Ricco the other night as an Honest Guy as he admitted it ( which I am not sure he even has actually)...and to me, you came off sounding like full of ****...bring it on man, my point is being made...all the anti armstrong freaks are acting up in some odd way...is the point we only ***** out armstrong....? and again, I hate armstrong...so what is the deal between all of you guys...?

btween the lines...I am douchy? really?

 

[Anonymous]

Uh-oh. Douchey is getting upset.

christ, what is your deal man? you hate doping so much? really? I would suggest you go find a song by the dead boys called "caught with the meat in your mouth"...but in all due respect ***...

 

[Ferminal]

Now now children.

 

[flicker]

Scotty bring the beer bongs to the bridge. Cash thotfofud brodeel need to hav broa intellectual pow-wow again 2night

light year.20-2-2010

 

[Anonymous]

bro deal tees off every chance he gets on armstrong...well, I am a guy who thinks armstrong is a doper and full of **** and hurting the sport...but as I don't agree with him about his dope taking/ pushing buddy who he has emailed with, joe papp, I am running into bull**** here...interesting! 131313 made some pretty good points by the way...the witch hunt has become pretty focused...

 

[BroDeal]

christ, what is your deal man? you hate doping so much? really? I would suggest you go find a song by the dead boys called "caught with the meat in your mouth"...but in all due respect ***...

Wow, Cupcake. I bet your blood pressure is off the chart. Look out folks! He's gonna blow. You really might want to see someone about your anger management issues.

 

[flicker]

Scotty, more beer to the bridge hurry my friends on Papp smear are dry.

 

[BroDeal]

bro deal tees off every chance he gets on armstrong...well, I am a guy who thinks armstrong is a doper and full of **** and hurting the sport...but as I don't agree with him about his dope taking/ pushing buddy who he has emailed with, joe papp, I am running into bull**** here...interesting! 131313 made some pretty good points by the way...the witch hunt has become pretty focused...

You might want to get your facts straight, Francis. I never emailed Joe and never received email from Joe. I was just skeptical that Joe was ballsy enough to keep dealing after the USADA and the criminal justice system got involved. As I said before, that is crazy risky, but smart people do stupid things all the time. Intelligence does not equal wisdom, patience, or temperance. I am also surprised to find out he was running eposino.com. I actually find that pretty funny because I visited there a lot.

I have to love these self declared Armstrong disbelievers who get so hopping mad about people dissing Armstrong. Don't worry, buddy. We believe you.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, Cupcake. I bet your blood pressure is off the chart. Look out folks! He's gonna blow. You really might want to see someone about your anger management issues.

why is that? for speaking my mind about some of this crap? sure, go cheap shot via prozac and heart attack ect...bro, you really might want to see someone about thinking death and letting egostrong issues run your ****ing life...

 

[BroDeal]

christ, what is your deal man? you hate doping so much? really? I would suggest you go find a song by the dead boys called "caught with the meat in your mouth"...but in all due respect ***...

I really have no desire to listen to some piece of music you heard in a gay bar. While I am sure these fantasies do it for you, you need to understand that not everyone shares your predisposition.

 

[Anonymous]

You might want to get your facts straight, Francis. I never emailed Joe and never received email from Joe. I was just skeptical that Joe was ballsy enough to keep dealing after the USADA and the criminal justice system got involved. As I said before, that is crazy risky, but smart people do stupid things all the time. Intelligence does not equal wisdom, patience, or temperance. I am also surprised to find out he was running eposino.com. I actually find that pretty funny because I visited there a lot.

I have to love these self declared Armstrong disbelievers who get so hopping mad about people dissing Armstrong. Don't worry, buddy. We believe you.

francis? is that some guy you met on the eposino site...gee, he gave a guilty plea yes? do you think he was framed somehow? Now you are even going to guess that I am actually an armstrong apologist? go look at all my quotes man...the point is this...you have been so focused on armstrong that you miss on the other crap at times...like backing Ricco...be my guest tho, look at my writings and see if I am an armstrong fanboy...

 

[Anonymous]

I really have no desire to listen to some piece of music you heard in a gay bar. While I am sure these fantasies do it for you, you need to understand that not everyone shares your predisposition.

hardening my body for you over here number one man...braindeadasshole...

 

[BroDeal]

francis? is that some guy you met on the eposino site...gee, he gave a guilty plea yes? do you think he was framed somehow? Now you are even going to guess that I am actually an armstrong apologist? go look at all my quotes man...the point is this...you have been so focused on armstrong that you miss on the other crap at times...like backing Ricco...be my guest tho, look at my writings and see if I am an armstrong fanboy...

Ohhh, looks like Francis failed Reading Comprehension 101--not that it surprises me. I merely said that Ricco was more honest when compared to the likes of Armstrong, Vaughters, Millar, etc. For one, Ricco admitted what he did. Armstrong continues to lie about it. Vaughters won't give a straight answer. Two, Ricco does not offer the sort of fake apology that see from the likes of Saint Millar and his continual moaning about how ashamed he is of giving into temptation. Ricco's attitude is refreshingly compared to the phoniness we see from others.

As for Joe, news reports get things wrong all the time, and it is not that hard to end a criminal enterprise on one date but commit an act on another, much later date that is a furtherance of the criminal conspiracy. Joe did not necessarily have to be selling PEDs right up to the end date of what he pleaded guilty to. Perhaps someone can provide a link to an actual indictment.

 

[Anonymous]

Ohhh, looks like Francis failed Reading Comprehension 101--not that it surprises me. I merely said that Ricco was more honest when compared to the likes of Armstrong, Vaughters, Millar, etc. For one, Ricco admitted what he did. Armstrong continues to lie about it. Vaughters won't give a straight answer. Two, Ricco does not offer the sort of fake apology that see from the likes of Saint Millar and his continual moaning about how ashamed he is of giving into temptation. Ricco's attitude is refreshingly compared to the phoniness we see from others.

As for Joe, news reports get things wrong all the time, and it is not that hard to end a criminal enterprise on one date but commit an act on another, much later date that is a furtherance of the criminal conspiracy. Joe did not necessarily have to be selling PEDs right up to the end date of what he pleaded guilty to. Perhaps someone can provide a link to an actual indictment.

ummm...he pleaded gulity to selling 80 grand worth of drugs..but that is too judgmental and makes me an armstrong lover...in a odd way you are so conected to your armstrong hate...you cant see the forest for the trees Bro...it is almost like you need LA's willy your mouth to feel ok via dope...buddy, good luck with your email bud, send him some books...

 

[BroDeal]

ummm...he pleaded gulity to selling 80 grand worth of drugs..but that is too judgmental and makes me an armstrong lover...in a odd way you are so conected to your armstrong hate...you cant see the forest for the trees Bro...

My only interest in that area is when he stopped selling PEDs because I find the risk people are willing to undertake fascinating in that it is often irrational. Like a coke dealer who makes twenty mil but continues right up to the point he is caught, people do dumb things even when they could or should stop.

it is almost like you need LA's willy your mouth to feel ok via dope...

Again with your fantasies. Don't you have some Olympic ice dancing to watch?

buddy, good luck with your email bud, send him some books...

See, this is why people like you should really seek help. You are so cross eyed with rage you cannot even tell different posters apart. You seem to blur everyone together into a faceless enemy you can rant about without regard as to whether the posts of one person are being attributed to another.

 

[Anonymous]

My only interest in that area is when he stopped selling PEDs because I find the risk people are willing to undertake fascinating in that it is often irrational. Like a coke dealer who makes twenty mil but continues right up to the point he is caught, people do dumb things even when they could or should stop.



Again with your fantasies. Don't you have some Olympic ice dancing to watch?



See, this is why people like you should really seek help. You are so cross eyed with rage you cannot even tell different posters apart. You seem to blur everyone together into a faceless enemy you can rant about without regard as to whether the posts of one person are being attributed to another.

nah...good enough...you win dumb****...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Stop the personal bickering guys. Now.

I'm going to try to shift the topic a little:

1) If you were one of the 187 people (or purchases) of PEDs from Joe, and considering Joe helped turn over hard evidence to USADA regarding Leogrande, would you be worried?

2) Do you think Joe turned over all (or damned near all) the information he had on all of his doping sales and relations, including names, to federal prosecutors and USADA as part of his plea?

3) What do you think will come out of this, presuming Joe gave up a lot of names and information on doping practices and defeating tests to both federal prosecutors and USADA as part of his plea?

 

[Epicycle]

Stop the personal bickering guys. Now.

I'm going to try to shift the topic a little:

1) If you were one of the 187 people (or purchases) of PEDs from Joe, and considering Joe helped turn over hard evidence to USADA regarding Leogrande, would you be worried?

2) Do you think Joe turned over all (or damned near all) the information he had on all of his doping sales and relations, including names, to federal prosecutors and USADA as part of his plea?

3) What do you think will come out of this, presuming Joe gave up a lot of names and information on doping practices and defeating tests to both federal prosecutors and USADA as part of his plea?

Sure I'd be worried but it depends on what kind of records Papp has and whether USADA can get their hands on those records. In the BALCO case they were able to get records but those were channeled through a Senate investigation, not straight from a federal prosecutor's office. Also the records have to be incriminating enough for USADA to take action. Some athletes were banned as a result of BALCO but USADA couldn't get to Marion Jones, even after Victor Conte said on national television that he had doped her. Leogrande didn't go down just because of Joe Papp's evidence. That was only part of the puzzle. Would Western Union receipts or that type of thing be enough? That's probably the type of thing Joe would have gotten through eposino.com unless people were dumb enough to personalize their e-mails.

 

[BroDeal]

I'm going to try to shift the topic a little:

1) If you were one of the 187 people (or purchases) of PEDs from Joe, and considering Joe helped turn over hard evidence to USADA regarding Leogrande, would you be worried?

2) Do you think Joe turned over all (or damned near all) the information he had on all of his doping sales and relations, including names, to federal prosecutors and USADA as part of his plea?

3) What do you think will come out of this, presuming Joe gave up a lot of names and information on doping practices and defeating tests to both federal prosecutors and USADA as part of his plea?

Nothing will come of the eposino.com buyers unless they were buying enough to resell to others. Email communications should have been encrypted using a service like hushmail, put through an anonymous remailer, or whatever. Money transfers do not require ID for the amounts of money that was likely involved. The information needed to pick up the money can be transmitted via email. The feds are unlikely to track down who rented a PO box for a $300 purchase, especially when the purchaser can claim he never ordered what was delivered. To prevent that defense, the police like to catch the target in the act of accepting or picking up the package. No possibility of that now.

Since there is not much incentive to find the clients, the USADA won't get the information it needs to charge anyone. The most Joe probably has are shipping addresses, the names on which may be fake or inaccurate.

The people who should be worried are those who Joe dealt with in person, but Leogrande may prove to be the extent of that.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Why defend Joe Papp?

If only half of what is reported is correct, anyone hoping for an explanation that justifies Joe's actions is headed for disappointment IMO*. However, I wish Joe well and continue to give him the benefit of the doubt wherever I can, because he spilled the beans. I consciously try to treat riders who name their suppliers differently to those who don't. Choosing to respond differently to riders who behave differently is not a double standard.

From the information available so far, I believe Joe's actions were at least partly motivated by self interest. However, it's entirely possible that he was also motivated by wanting to atone for his crimes. That's one of the areas that I can still give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't see any problem with someone acting partly in self interest, as long as they don't act entirely in self interest. In fact, capable adults who fail to look after themselves are just a burden for whoever gets to pick up the pieces.

There is also reason to believe he wouldn't have become a drug trafficker if he wasn't exposed to the doping culture in cycling (and the endless 'you have to dope to win' marketing from the likes of BigBoat.) So, there's reason to believe that he might change his mind about doping, after being forced to stop riding and face the consequences. Perhaps he now genuinely wants to discourage others from doping; I still give him the benefit of the doubt about that too.

For any of you who are directly involved with CLEAN competitive cycling, please don't assume that I'm trying to persuade you to offer Joe support. I'm not. I don't think the attitude of 'he did the wrong thing and has to pay the price' is entirely unreasonable. Just trying to explain why I chose to defend him.

*Joe, I sincerely apologize if I have underestimated you.