Join the dots? How dirty is Lotto?

[Arnout]

And knowing the mentor of Vandenbrouck supplied him with some forbidden stuff makes even me suspicious.

 

[sniper]

Vanendert didn't look anything close to being exhausted.
The guy was fresh like a friggin daisy.

A joke indeed, and Vanendert himself still had the energy to laugh about it while finishing.

 

[hrotha]

Vanendert is such a huge dot you don't even need to join them anymore.

 

[luckyboy]

Yeah, Vanendert was literally unbelievable.

 

[unsheath]

And would have won at Luz Ardiden as well if he didnt panic when he saw Schleck. Non winner to cleaning up the biggest stage of the tour so far. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

And would have won at Luz Ardiden as well if he didnt panic when he saw Schleck. Non winner to cleaning up the biggest stage of the tour so far. Draw your own conclusions.

Mikel Nieve had never won before Cotobello last year either. But his wins haven't been subjected to this ridicule.

 

[Arnout]

Mikel Nieve had never won before Cotobello last year either. But his wins haven't been subjected to this ridicule.

Not to take away anything of his performance, I would be the last one to do that, but his wins were in another fashion, not riding away from all the favorites on the last mountain.

 

[roundabout]

Mikel Nieve had never won before Cotobello last year either. But his wins haven't been subjected to this ridicule.

Vanendert climbed at Sanchez speed in the Pyrenees.

Nieve wins from breaks.

 

[El Pistolero]

2011 14 Saint-Gaudens 168.5 HC Jelle Vanendert Thomas Voeckler 46:04
2007 14 Mazamet 170 HC Alberto Contador Michael Rasmussen 44:08
2004 13 Lannemezan 205.5 HC Lance Armstrong Thomas Voeckler 45:30
2002 12 Lannemezan 198 HC Lance Armstrong Lance Armstrong 45:43
1998 11 Bagnères-de-Luchon 170 HC Marco Pantani Jan Ullrich 43:30*

 

[Anonymous]

2011 14 Saint-Gaudens 168.5 HC Jelle Vanendert Thomas Voeckler 46:04
2007 14 Mazamet 170 HC Alberto Contador Michael Rasmussen 44:08
2004 13 Lannemezan 205.5 HC Lance Armstrong Thomas Voeckler 45:30
2002 12 Lannemezan 198 HC Lance Armstrong Lance Armstrong 45:43
1998 11 Bagnères-de-Luchon 170 HC Marco Pantani Jan Ullrich 43:30*

youve lost me, why does every line have two riders on it?

 

[El Pistolero]

youve lost me, why does every line have two riders on it?

Leader of the race

 

[maltiv]

So who would've thought before the season that Bert de Clerq and Vanendert would end up with MTF victories against the best (not from early breakaways) at the Giro and the TDF respectively? Some performances are just too good to be true.

 

[roundabout]

So who would've thought before the season that Bert de Clerq and Vanendert would end up with MTF victories against the best (not from early breakaways) at the Giro and the TDF respectively? Some performances are just too good to be true.

uh, dichotomy alert.

Or...the peloton is simply a lot cleaner (not necessarily less dopers but definitely less doping) which gives clean riders a chance to shine. Given how much slower everyone are climbing than in previous years, I'll go with the latter.

 

[Lanark]

uh, dichotomy alert.

Personally I think it's a bit of both. On the one hand, the peloton has gotten cleaner. Especially with the ALFD at the head of this year's doping tests, I wouldn't be suprised if the riders are really scared, and take few risks (not completely clean), giving riders who were always quite talented the chance to shine.

On the other hand, because the peloton is cleaner, the people who still hardcore dope (or have some new product) have a much bigger advantage than they had a couple of years ago. This results in a very moderate talent like Vanendert suddenly responding effortlessly to attacks from Andy Schleck. In a 'cleaner' peloton, the efficiency of doping increases.

 

[sniper]

Personally I think it's a bit of both. On the one hand, the peloton has gotten cleaner. Especially with the ALFD at the head of this year's doping tests, I wouldn't be suprised if the riders are really scared, and take few risks (not completely clean), giving riders who were always quite talented the chance to shine.

On the other hand, because the peloton is cleaner, the people who still hardcore dope (or have some new product) have a much bigger advantage than they had a couple of years ago. This results in a very moderate talent like Vanendert suddenly responding effortlessly to attacks from Andy Schleck. In a 'cleaner' peloton, the efficiency of doping increases.

Contador is probably not juicing as much as he normally is, which makes sense because all eyes are on him.
Evans, on the other hand, he is in the shape of his life, at least that's what his teammates say and also what he is showing up till now. Clearly, Evans is better "prepared" than he ever was. Same for Voeckler and a couple of others.
But you might be right that on the whole there is less heavy doping in the peloton this year.

But we're only half way.
After the Alps we can draw firmer conclusions.

 

[meat puppet]

^ good posts above, agreed.

was just about to post that given OPL riders' stellar performances this season, in all likelihood VDB2 would have really put in the hurt come mountain stages. the beer they're tanking up must be really effing brilliant

 

[luckyboy]

The more I think about Vanendert, the more ridiculous this is.

 

[maltiv]

uh, dichotomy alert.

I really don't feel I contradicted myself. Voeckler has always been consider clean and he definitely didn't come out of nowhere. Yet I can hardly believe him, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Vanendert is just a bit too much in my opinion.

 

[Colette]

As I see it Vandender's perfomance in the mountains is also a surprise for OPL. He has lost 12 minutes in the flat stages because he has been used to support JVDB and Gilbert, so his current skills must be a surprise for OPL as well.

 

[Parrulo]

a 26 year old who has been having physical problems for the past couple of years finally getting some good performances= doper no doubt

a 32 year old that has always been a good puncher but nowhere near the top level guys in the mountains is all of sudden almost dropping contador and countering all of the schlecks attacks in the mountains= i will give him the benefit of the doubt

sounds logical

btw i am not saying that venenderts performance isn't suspect. it is a suspect performance but imo voecklers is much more.

 

[maltiv]

a 26 year old who has been having physical problems for the past couple of years finally getting some good performances= doper no doubt

a 32 year old that has always been a good puncher but nowhere near the top level guys in the mountains is all of sudden almost dropping contador and countering all of the schlecks attacks in the mountains= i will give him the benefit of the doubt

sounds logical

btw i am not saying that venenderts performance isn't suspect. it is a suspect performance but imo voecklers is much more.

I never said he is a doper no doubt. But I can agree that my arguments are quite weak, I'm just saying how I feel, although it doesn't make a lot of sense...maybe I just want to believe in Voeckler.

 

[MarkvW]

Gilbert's strong performances this spring.

Very strong Giro ride so far, stage win and lots of attacks from different Lotto riders.

Matt Lloyd and JVDB II scoring 8 on the UCI dirty scale.

While not at Cack/Saxo/Astana levels of sustained dirtiness over the years, is it time to start looking at them a little bit more critically?

Love Phil's new hairstyle. Bet that peroxide REALLY cleans the hair!

 

[Colette]

Love Phil's new hairstyle. Bet that peroxide REALLY cleans the hair!

Who is Cack btw?

 

[Ferminal]

So who would've thought before the season that Bert de Clerq and Vanendert would end up with MTF victories against the best (not from early breakaways) at the Giro and the TDF respectively? Some performances are just too good to be true.

Combined with Gilbert and Van den Broeck of the last 18-24 months.

Feels way too good to be true for me.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for the longest time, but this was just a joke. I have no doubt VDB would have won this Tour without a crash. It's like Saunier Duval revisited.

Is it them (or a different team) that is currently employing the old SD doctor?