Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[ElDesordenado]

I have a feeling we’ll never see anything come close to that TT again. If he’s able to challenge for victory it’ll be in the mountains, but that TT was too far off the believable meter to be reproduced.

I'm not too sure about that. Vingegaard has produced super time trial performances consistently since 2021. In 2022, he deliberately slowed down to give the TT victory to van Aert; then came the alien TT in 2023. I don't see why Visma wouldn't continue that trend and take it to alien level 2.0. They'll need to be sure that Vingegaard outperforms or at least is on the same level as Pogacar in the TT. I think we'll see even crazier performances unless Vingegaard is simply too hampered by those injuries.

 

[snipeheem]

I'm not too sure about that. Vingegaard has produced super time trial performances consistently since 2021. In 2022, he deliberately slowed down to give the TT victory to van Aert; then came the alien TT in 2023. I don't see why Visma wouldn't continue that trend and take it to alien level 2.0. They'll need to be sure that Vingegaard outperforms or at least is on the same level as Pogacar in the TT. I think we'll see even crazier performances unless Vingegaard is simply too hampered by those injuries.

i think they are both capable to break plateau de beille record and i think if any of them break this record, media will start diging

 

[Nick2413]

i think they are both capable to break plateau de beille record and i think if any of them break this record, media will start diging

They’re breaking all sorts of records with no digging, it’ll be the same story of talent and preparation.

 

[snipeheem]

They’re breaking all sorts of records with no digging, it’ll be the same story of talent and preparation.

Even when they are going to break Marco records?

 

[snipeheem]

Imagine if jonas or pog break Marco Alpe d huez record, 100% media will react, they have to

 

[Netserk]

Not all records are the same. Plateau de Beille doesn't matter, but Alpe d'Huez does. I think the only other record that would ring the alarms is Hautacam. No other is similarly iconic (and thought of as "unbreakable").

EDIT: Ventoux! How could I forget. The third iconic record.

 

[snipeheem]

Not all records are the same. Plateau de Beille doesn't matter, but Alpe d'Huez does. I think the only other record that would ring the alarms is Hautacam. No other is similarly iconic (and thought of as "unbreakable").

EDIT: Ventoux! How could I forget. The third iconic record.

Record by Pantani or Mayo by TT?

 

[Froome]

Not all records are the same. Plateau de Beille doesn't matter, but Alpe d'Huez does. I think the only other record that would ring the alarms is Hautacam. No other is similarly iconic (and thought of as "unbreakable").

EDIT: Ventoux! How could I forget. The third iconic record.

Alpe d'huez is not that difficult for them to break. They don’t need 6.7 or 6.9 w/kg like pantani to break the record.

If they race in good conditions, looking at Ferrari formula, 6.4 w/kg would be enough to break alpe d huez record.

If they do alpe d huez in ITT, they will break certainly the record, but they can do it in a normal stage.

 

[Nomad]

Imagine if jonas or pog break Marco Alpe d huez record, 100% media will react, they have to

That would turn the cycling world upside down since Pantani's record set in 1995 is a heavily doped 36:40 (6.8 w/kg). In fact, Pantani holds the top 3 fastest times with LA holding the 4th & 6th fastest. The top 10 is rounded out with Ullrich, Big Mig, Zuelle, Riis & Virenque.

Not surprisingly, 6 out of the 7 riders are confirmed dopers with Big Mig highly suspicious of course. Vingegaard & Pogacar barley cracked the top 20.

Fastest Alpe d'huez ascent in 16 years

Col du Galibier 2022:8,6 km@6,8%---23:45---average speed 21.73 km/h(Louis Meintjes) ---24:00---average spe...

www.climbing-records.com

 

[Netserk]

Record by Pantani or Mayo by TT?

Mayo.

Alpe d'huez is not that difficult for them to break. They don’t need 6.7 or 6.9 w/kg like pantani to break the record.

If they race in good conditions, looking at Ferrari formula, 6.4 w/kg would be enough to break alpe d huez record.

If they do alpe d huez in ITT, they will break certainly the record, but they can do it in a normal stage.

Even if I agreed with you, that wouldn't change that Alpe d'Huez is the most iconic climbing record there is. For better or worse, it's the common benchmark.

 

[Red Rick]

Not all records are the same. Plateau de Beille doesn't matter, but Alpe d'Huez does. I think the only other record that would ring the alarms is Hautacam. No other is similarly iconic (and thought of as "unbreakable").

EDIT: Ventoux! How could I forget. The third iconic record.

Is there like a list of records somewhere sorted by some W/kg graph?

Surely Piancavallo is up there?

 

[snipeheem]

Alpe d'huez is not that difficult for them to break. They don’t need 6.7 or 6.9 w/kg like pantani to break the record.

If they race in good conditions, looking at Ferrari formula, 6.4 w/kg would be enough to break alpe d huez record.

If they do alpe d huez in ITT, they will break certainly the record, but they can do it in a normal stage.

No way its just 6,4 w/kg

 

[Nick2413]

I specifically think they avoid racing a lot of the big name climbs to the max to stay out of the spotlight, let them be breakaway stages or a late attack. But even if the records do go down, it’s not like they haven’t been comparing Pogacar to Pantani in a favorable light anyway. When things get more unbelievable, just light the propaganda fuse and step away.

 

[snipeheem]

Is there like a list of records somewhere sorted by some W/kg graph?

Surely Piancavallo is up there?

Piancavallo, 1998 Giro d'Italia. Marco Pantani attacks and drops Pavel Tonkov after just 3 km of ascent. This is one of the highest climbing performances recorded in cycling history, ~6,9 w/kg for 36 min 20 sec by Il Pirata - Mihai Simon on twitter

 

[Red Rick]

The problem with climbing records for Pogacar and Vingegaard is they're too busy with each other to break records of Pantani.

 

[Netserk]

Is there like a list of records somewhere sorted by some W/kg graph?

Surely Piancavallo is up there?

I only had Tour records in mind. I don't think Giro records matter that much for the public at large.

Lanternerouge probably has a list, I guess Montecampione is high on it.

 

[snipeheem]

I only had Tour records in mind. I don't think Giro records matter that much for the public at large.

Lanternerouge probably has a list, I guess Montecampione is high on it.

According to Vayer , Simon, montecampione is the best Marco performance ever

 

[snipeheem]

I only had Tour records in mind. I don't think Giro records matter that much for the public at large.

Lanternerouge probably has a list, I guess Montecampione is high on it.

MONTECAMPIONE (18.65 km, 7.73 %)Marco Pantani: 49:26, 22.64 Kph, VAM 1750 m/h, 6.6 W/kg (est.) Rate this as best performance of Pantani's career. according to Ammatti

 

[Froome]

Mayo.

Even if I agreed with you, that wouldn't change that Alpe d'Huez is the most iconic climbing record there is. For better or worse, it's the common benchmark.

Maybe more iconic, but the record of Ventoux is more impressive.

 

[Nomad]

The problem with climbing records for Pogacar and Vingegaard is they're too busy with each other to break records of Pantani.

IDK, Pogacar wasn't too far behind Pantani at Oropa:

Tadej Pogacar, 2nd fastest ever ascent on Oropa

Santuario di Oropa 2024:6,7 km@8%---17:25---average speed 23.08 km/h(Tadej Pogacar) 2019:6,7 km@8%---18:14---average speed 22.05 km/h(Egan...

www.climbing-records.com

 

[Red Rick]

IDK, Pogacar wasn't too far behind Pantani at Oropa:

Tadej Pogacar, 2nd fastest ever ascent on Oropa

Santuario di Oropa 2024:6,7 km@8%---17:25---average speed 23.08 km/h(Tadej Pogacar) 2019:6,7 km@8%---18:14---average speed 22.05 km/h(Egan...

www.climbing-records.com

Oropa was barely faster than Dumoulin. That was not it.

I only had Tour records in mind. I don't think Giro records matter that much for the public at large.

Lanternerouge probably has a list, I guess Montecampione is high on it.

Maybe from Pantani's career. But I guess Ventoux and Hautacam are considerably harder than Montecampione.

Ventoux especially is so wind dependent.

 

[Oldermanish]

That would turn the cycling world upside down since Pantani's record set in 1995 is a heavily doped 36:40 (6.8 w/kg). In fact, Pantani holds the top 3 fastest times with LA holding the 4th & 6th fastest. The top 10 is rounded out with Ullrich, Big Mig, Zuelle, Riis & Virenque.

Not surprisingly, 6 out of the 7 riders are confirmed dopers with Big Mig highly suspicious of course. Vingegaard & Pogacar barley cracked the top 20.

Fastest Alpe d'huez ascent in 16 years

Col du Galibier 2022:8,6 km@6,8%---23:45---average speed 21.73 km/h(Louis Meintjes) ---24:00---average spe...

www.climbing-records.com

I'd make that 7 for 7. Personal consultation for Ferrari results says it all.

 

[Oldermanish]

The problem with climbing records for Pogacar and Vingegaard is they're too busy with each other to break records of Pantani.

This Tour should be similar. It's stacking up to be an aggressive race of attrition with the gravel stage thrown in to make it really kinky. Depending on who falls from the hunt; it'll be team against team and then primary contenders looking for payoffs. It should be f*ckn' great.
That said; I hope all of the shake outs for GC don't happen in the first week.

 

[solo80k]

I love how we're talking about breaking records now. If you want to dope, at least deliver some spectacular results.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

There's a reason why Pantani has such a gap over the other top riders of the EPO era on Alpe d'Huez times list (with the closest Armstrong ride being an ITT effort). It's a hell of a record, very difficult to beat. I don't think Pogacar or Vingo can do it in a normal stage, maybe in a standalone time trial it can be close (but only if the performance is comparable to "show the world who's the strongest" last year's TT).