Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[Pistolas]

Don't worry people, he went too far today, and next year someone else will get full clearence to the juice by doping authorities, not him. I bet in one of the spanish or british youngsters too crush Vingo in 2024. Most important now is: don't crush the business that reached new highs.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Pog sulking in the bus tonight like

 

[hender-retour]

Sheer power aside, gotta give credit where credit's due. Vingegaard rode a super TT from a technical point of view. Cornering and descending cannot be enhanced by doping please don't tell me I'm wrong

Well actually there are several brain doping measures one can use for enhancing concentration and reaction speed. Don't recall the names of the drugs but try to look up Russian astronauts and fighter jet pilots. It's not inconcevable that this is part of a larger programme of peds.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

Created an account for this after years of lurking. This is the most hilarious thing I've seen in years of absolutely hilarious things.

I don't mind doping. I think it can sometimes make for better races and nobody wants to watch a tour where athletes simply cannot recover at all making them unable to do insane attacks 3 weeks in. But my issue that's been eating at me for years and greatly ruined my enjoyment of the sport itself is watching the "meta" of cycling completely disintegrate.

We used to have time trial specialists, punchers, climbers, stage race specialists (climbers who can time trial well compared to their peers but could NEVER beat time trial specialists like tony martin, cancellara, etc on the flat), and cobblestone specialists. The only group that is currently recognizable and retains their unique style is the sprinters.

Now you have Pogacar a 60kg rider winner Ronde van Vlaanderen against all the cobble specialists!? You have skeletal mutants like Froome, Pogacar, Vingegaard, etc destroying time trial specialists on the flat!? You have 70+kg classic specialists like Geraint Thomas randomly dropping riders like Nairo, Aru, Bardet, Pinot, etc in the high mountains and winning the whole tour. You have 70kg Bradley Wiggins a TT specialist track cyclist randomly winning the whole tour. You have Wout van aert winning high mountain stages and sprint stages in the same race.

It's all so tiresome.

It's not new but I agree that rider specialization (the meta as you say) being dulled and bent to irrelevance do sap a lot of the enjoyment out of the race.

It's maybe not all doping related, I suppose it was inevitable that sport science would strive to identify the perfect GT GC compromise and get better at it. It kills a lot of strategy and smart management and lately it seems it's even hard to have the polka dot ranking really exist as a separate thing (there's like... Two riders really trying this year ?).

For as suspenseful the duel at the top was until now, a lot of the strategy seems to boil down as to who will sustain the hardest effort non stop over 3 weeks and which train ride the toughest every other day.

 

[Martinstranger]

Tbf there was, although it didn't really make it past the Danish borders.

I do, however, agree that this performance is one of the most insane TT performances of the sport

Exactly and it was one of the reasons Jumbo Visma signed him. They have (or maybe had) a close work with his previous team Coloquick. When Jumbo Visma called about another rider, they said they should take a look at Vingegaard and send them times from his record at Coll de Rates.

Ah yes, the unrivalled, unparalled physical stats. Yet he was on the verge of calling the occupation of fisherman his career.

He was at a very little team Coloquick and as i recall he broke his leg and where out of competition somewhere around a year. That and his mentality "issues" at the time, meant he had to develop a lot - if you have followed statements from Jumbo Visma over the years they have talked a lot about that issue and about making his mentality to be captain. But at the same time, they knew the physics were fantastic.

And above all that - todays performance was out of this world and off course it will raise the big question again.....again.... again....

 

[Cookster15]

Correct. With todays performance how could I forget Berzin haha. That team was so fun in (dont remember the year).

1994 Giro and Gewiss. I think Vingegaard was more dominant.

Giro d'Italia 1994 Stage 22 results

Evgeni Berzin is the winner of Giro d'Italia 1994, before Marco Pantani and Miguel Induráin. The stage from Torino to Milano was won by Stefano Zanini.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[zlev11]

1994 Giro and Gewiss. I think Vingegaard was more dominant.

Giro d'Italia 1994 Stage 22 results

Evgeni Berzin is the winner of Giro d'Italia 1994, before Marco Pantani and Miguel Induráin. The stage from Torino to Milano was won by Stefano Zanini.

www.procyclingstats.com

speaking of 1994

Tour de France 1994 Stage 19 (ITT) results

Piotr Ugrumov is the winner of Tour de France 1994 Stage 19 (ITT), before Marco Pantani and Miguel Indurain. Miguel Indurain was leader in GC.

www.procyclingstats.com

almost the same gaps but over twice as long, and this is a known thermonuclear doping performance, i think Ugrumov rode at 64% hct or something.

 

[Gratemans]

You are on the fence as to whether they are doping?

Yes. And it's clear where you stand on that regard 😉
That's fine. I might agree. I'm not sure. Convincing me either way surely isnt of any interest to the topic at hand anyway.

 

[burning]

I enjoyed reading the comments, and I think today is probably the most insane TT performance of all time, which includes stuff like Indurain (Luxembourg and IIRC 1st TT of 1994), Ugrumov (Morzine), and of course, Pogacar.

I'd still think there had been more insane climbing performances from guys like Pantani, but probably not in a TT. Is this even possible to explain this performance without motors? IDK about it, but I will enjoy this show

 

[Salvarani]

Don't worry people, he went too far today, and next year someone else will get full clearence to the juice by doping authorities, not him. I bet in one of the spanish or british youngsters too crush Vingo in 2024. Most important now is: don't crush the business that reached new highs.

If LBL-Remco shows up, then who knows.

 

[ManicJack]

I still cannot comprehend what happened today. This is the best time trial ever displayed on tarmac, performed by a guy who could break all of the climbing records set by Pantani tomorrow. Make it make sense.

Bikes are more aero now and the wheels are rounder.

 

[fbjim]

Bikes are more aero now and the wheels are rounder.

Don't forget the pillows!

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Don't forget the pillows!

I think it's dark matter in the chainrings, using micro gravity effects to make power translation more efficient.

I know that's science fantasy, but that's what we're doing now isn't it?

 

[Red Rick]

Indurain crushed the field on 50 or even 60 km TTs. Absolute gaps were bigger (up to 2-3 minutes) but not relative (per km or percentage).

People should run the numbers but I'm pretty sure s/km isn't the same for all durations, and that s/km is a poor metric to compare TTs with different average speeds anyway.

I think seconds loss per minute is better anyway.

 

[Riek s]

I think it's dark matter in the chainrings, using micro gravity effects to make power translation more efficient.

I know that's science fantasy, but that's what we're doing now isn't it?

Well they did removed the paint of the bike and made it blak to save "100gram" which is one of the explanations of his extraordonary performance.

 

[NFTtiddies]

It's nice that for once we don't even really care about the watts, the marginal gains, the 'out-nutritioning', we don't care about making sense of it. We're all just dumbstruck.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Sick of these Danes already tbh, we've no Duke of Sussex anymore and the Duke of York is a nonce, we are completely vulnerable on our eastern coastline and they will start getting ideas if this carries on.

Onley and Poole need to get on that gene doping/cherry juice sh*t and putting out some big numbers otherwise we are about to see Longships looming over on the horizon.

 

[noob]

It was tongue in cheek. I dont believe he will lose his job or money over it. It just funny to see him ask questions like that, with his history.

Actually he has defended them this week and said there seems to be less doping nowadays (article linked somewhere in the clinic these last few days) but what I was alluding to was that maybe he just swayed.

(Even one of my Eurosport commentators are starting to sway, like I hear how he speaks about doping has now changed since like 2 years ago.)

There's two sides of omerta; it's keeping quiet until it starts to leak out and now it's starting to leaking again. Then saving ones career will be about admitting to the doping instead. It all depends on how the wind blows. (lord I'm cynical after some years of pr work lol)

 

[awavey]

He was at a very little team Coloquick and as i recall he broke his leg and where out of competition somewhere around a year. That and his mentality "issues" at the time, meant he had to develop a lot - if you have followed statements from Jumbo Visma over the years they have talked a lot about that issue and about making his mentality to be captain. But at the same time, they knew the physics were fantastic.

And above all that - todays performance was out of this world and off course it will raise the big question again.....again.... again....

but you dont turn the physics on and off, if hes capable of such fantastic physics, where have those kind of numbers been in the last 2 weeks ? how has Pog even looked like a matched contender against him ? how has he even been gapped up climbs ?

thats the thing for me you cant sit there and say this guy has the most astounding Vo2 max, so he can put out amazing numbers, but then only likes using its potential in one stage, just for the kicks of it I guess, he ought to have been several minutes clear already by this stage.

it feels too unbelievable is the problem, and I havent felt like that about a Tour stage for a long while.

 

[The Clogger]

Exactly and it was one of the reasons Jumbo Visma signed him. They have (or maybe had) a close work with his previous team Coloquick. When Jumbo Visma called about another rider, they said they should take a look at Vingegaard and send them times from his record at Coll de Rates.



He was at a very little team Coloquick and as i recall he broke his leg and where out of competition somewhere around a year. That and his mentality "issues" at the time, meant he had to develop a lot - if you have followed statements from Jumbo Visma over the years they have talked a lot about that issue and about making his mentality to be captain. But at the same time, they knew the physics were fantastic.

And above all that - todays performance was out of this world and off course it will raise the big question again.....again.... again....

Also, it seems like people are actually believing Jonas cut fish for a living out of necessity. It wasn't though, here from his former DS;

"- It was about us giving Jonas some structure in his everyday life. If he had nothing else to do, it could well be 12-13 before he came out to train. By getting him a job, we were able to put the training and time into a different perspective, and that was important for Jonas's maturation as a person, says Christian Andersen."

It was just to get him off the couch ;-). Valgren had the same job before Vingo.

 

[Lequack]

Who is John Larsen? Idiot.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1681396098986909705

View: https://twitter.com/Jslarsen/status/1681396098986909705

https://twitter.com/x/status/1681391030501769220

View: https://twitter.com/Jslarsen/status/1681391030501769220

 

[noob]

It is probably well known now that Vinge is not the smartest guy. If the ear-piece didnt work or he couldnt hear... he by default, just kept going.

A smarter guy might have realized, looking at his meter. "I am going too fast right now" and eased up just a little bit. He just admitted he couldnt believe his numbers. It just shouldnt be possible.

Did anyone see Van Aert in the hot-seat by the way, when the camera panned to him after Vinge passed the line? He was absolutely creasing/laughing. Putting his hat down to cover his face, when he realized he was being filmed, and then just smiled putting it back on as he stood up.

He's not the smartest. He's also prone to risktaking! The way he took the corners today I was nervous.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1681396098986909705

View: https://twitter.com/Jslarsen/status/1681396098986909705

https://twitter.com/x/status/1681391030501769220

View: https://twitter.com/Jslarsen/status/1681391030501769220

I love how some people make it all about aerodynamics and aggressive descending, when Vingegaard did one of the craziest climbing performances ever.

 

[komarts]

This Tour went from suspense thriller to an episode of The Twilight Zone real quick. In 32 minutes and 36 seconds, to be more precise.

 

[ashhutch1997]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1681396098986909705

View: https://twitter.com/Jslarsen/status/1681396098986909705

https://twitter.com/x/status/1681391030501769220

View: https://twitter.com/Jslarsen/status/1681391030501769220

Ahh thank you John Larsen, thank you for reminding me that cycling is now clean.
"Il'l say to the people who don't believe, the cynics and the sceptics: I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles."