Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[bill1109]

Of course, they are.



I don't agree. He is punchier than Vingegaard, so he gained a few seconds (plus bonuses) in the first week, but in the high mountains there was not one stage where he seemed stronger than Vingegaard. On the contrary, it rather felt as Vingegaard was restraining himself after getting yellow, trying not to spend too much energy by trying to distance Pogacar before Hautacam.



I highly doubt it. Pogacar did not manage to distance Vingegaard one single time, while Vingegaard completely destroyed him on Granon and Hautacam. Moreover, I don't get this narrative of Pogacar wasting too much energy by attacking a lot. Vingegaard had to cover all these attacks, so he basically had to make the same efforts, and still he was way fresher on the final climb.

It's kind of funny how Pogacar responding to all those Jumbo attacks on Galibier is used as an explanation for him beeing cooked at Granon, but yesterday not the same argument seems to apply to Vingegaard. Instead the explanation is the exact opposite, namely that Pogacar was cooked because he had attacked too much. [I know that I'm simplifying a bit because at Galibier Pogacar countered attacks by Vingegaard and Roglic.]

In the mountains Vingegaard was just stronger than Pogacar, it's simple as that.

i think Pog had a hunger bonk on stage 11 due to not eating enough...but that is just what i think...did he not train hard enough, was he sick, was he fooled, we will never know ...spent too much energy covering and attacking and probably didn't eat enough due to being attacked as often as he was....good play by TJV....will see about next year i guess. anyway, best tour i have seen in many years..still say WVA is strongest rider in the race...just not GC rider

 

[zlev11]

Vingegaard simply blew him away. Pogacar did 30mins at 6.1w/kg and then 38 at 6.04 and lost a minute. those numbers would've dropped everyone but Armstrong 2000-2005 (even then Lance only ever did 3 road stage final climbs over 30min better than 6.05/wkg in those years). those guys were on unlimited undetectable blood doping with no off-score measurements and barely any OOC testing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550581142692274182

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1550581142692274182?s=20&t=g_pHPV8VfgEavoqZEmSV6Q

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550255451748679681

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1550255451748679681?s=20&t=g_pHPV8VfgEavoqZEmSV6Q

 

[Cookster15]

i think Pog had a hunger bonk on stage 11 due to not eating enough...but that is just what i think...did he not train hard enough, was he sick, was he fooled, we will never know ...spent too much energy covering and attacking and probably didn't eat enough due to being attacked as often as he was....good play by TJV....will see about next year i guess. anyway, best tour i have seen in many years..still say WVA is strongest rider in the race...just not GC rider

My gosh Worst Tour I have seen since 2012, I stopped watching after yesterday. I just can't take any more. And a thought should be spared for the forgotten one - poor Primoz Roglic. One day Primoz will realize he has been used and abused by Jumbo who found a new alpha mutant responder so they have thrown Roglic on the scrapheap. He won't ever win a Tour because they found a freak responder that means they don't need him anymore.

 

[bill1109]

My gosh Worst Tour I have seen since 2012, I stopped watching after yesterday. I just can't take any more. And a thought should be spared for the forgotten one - poor Primoz Roglic. One day Primoz will realize he has been used and abused by Jumbo who found a new alpha mutant responder so they have thrown Roglic on the scrapheap. He won't ever win a Tour because they found a freak responder that means they don't need him anymore.

i am a roglic fan, but he crashes a lot, and bad ones, but seeing these young guys go at each other, and wva antics...its incredible..i cannot disagree w you regarding roglic, but i just try to realize that its sport, and fortunes change very quicky..pog being easy first week, then it all changed on stage 11. yes wish roglic was in until the end, but we must take what we get

 

[ppanther92]

Lets see how he does today (I expect very well) but who was actually the last sub-60 kg rider that is such a strong TTer (as measured by last year for now)?

If at Sky turning TTers into climbers was alarming, I would say the other way around is as well. Like Contador beating Cancellara in my book is also one of the peak doped performances of those years.

 

[ppanther92]

Absurd...

 

[SafeBet]

Can he do it?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

This is looking like the most mutant Tour since 2006 IMO. Froome showed weakness and got dropped on the Alpe in 2013 and 2015. Contador was amazing in 2009 and that ITT was freakish for sure. But this is a new post-Lance level of freakish, beating Pogacar handily and now ahead of a truly mutant Wout and Pogacar in the ITT when he really has no incentive to win and should be easing off to ensure he doesn’t crash.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

This guy...

 

[Lui98]

Can he do it?

Yes, absolutely...

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

When you’re making Pogacar look like a clean rider, you’re doped to the gills. Especially when you weren’t a young prodigy like Pogacar. This is crazy.

 

[ashhutch1997]

This would be his first ever pro ITT win, you couldn't make this up!!

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Contador 09 looks clean compared to this Jesus

 

[tonymikejoe]

What the hell is happening in this TimeTrial?

 

[ppanther92]

I am just thinking who actually would have had a chance against him from the past according to climbing times AND TT performance. Armstrong, I guess. And then I struggle already. Would argue no one post 2006. And while Pantani probably climbed so good that he would have won, he was a far worse TTer than Vingegaard.

 

[burning]

Vingegaard simply blew him away. Pogacar did 30mins at 6.1w/kg and then 38 at 6.04 and lost a minute. those numbers would've dropped everyone but Armstrong 2000-2005 (even then Lance only ever did 3 road stage final climbs over 30min better than 6.05/wkg in those years). those guys were on unlimited undetectable blood doping with no off-score measurements and barely any OOC testing.

I would guess 1999 Sestrieres, 2000 Hautacam, 2001 Alpe, 2004 PDB, and 2005 Courchevel would fit your criteria. I guess two of these are barely below the threshold.

 

[ontheroad]

This guy is incredible, he defies physics! How does a slight 58-60 kilo rider beat 80 kilo specialised powerhouses in a flat TT?

If the questions hadn't already started then there must be alarm bells ringing now.

 

[Riek s]

This guy is incredible, he defies physics! How does a slight 58-60 kilo rider beat 80 kilo specialised powerhouses in a flat TT?

If the questions hadn't already started then there must be alarm bells ringing now.

A tthis point the alarm bells are already broken from the last 2 weeks, after continiously ringing for the last 2 years. its called "background" noise atm.

 

[fbjim]

can we add "schumacher" to his surname

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I am just thinking who actually would have had a chance against him from the past according to climbing times AND TT performance. Armstrong, I guess. And then I struggle already. Would argue no one post 2006. And while Pantani probably climbed so good that he would have won, he was a far worse TTer than Vingegaard.

No iteration of Froome, as Vingegaard would have put minutes into him on the Alpe and possibly beaten him in the ITTs.
He just destroyed Pogacar so we got that answer.
2018 G and 2019 Bernal are obviously minutes back.
Wiggins and Evans would be destroyed obviously.
2009 Contador had a chance.
Not even sure Lance would beat him.
Indurain likely would have beaten him.

 

[capuldemetal]

not schumacher.w52/boavista would be more fitting.in compareresence planet portugal would look clean

 

[ashhutch1997]

No iteration of Froome, as Vingegaard would have put minutes into him on the Alpe and possibly beaten him in the ITTs.
He just destroyed Pogacar so we got that answer.
2018 G and 2019 Bernal are obviously minutes back.
Wiggins and Evans would be destroyed obviously.
2009 Contador had a chance.
Not even sure Lance would beat him.
Indurain likely would have beaten him.

What about 1997 Jan Ullrich? That was pretty mutant

 

[fbjim]

riders he would not have beat:

Final Week Urgamov
Final Week Santiago Perez
Ricardo Ricco
That Lady In That Cyclocross U23 Race With An Ebike

 

[capuldemetal]

not even a slim chance.just look at the numbers that are pumping out

 

[Riek s]

No iteration of Froome, as Vingegaard would have put minutes into him on the Alpe and possibly beaten him in the ITTs.
He just destroyed Pogacar so we got that answer.
2018 G and 2019 Bernal are obviously minutes back.
Wiggins and Evans would be destroyed obviously.
2009 Contador had a chance.
Not even sure Lance would beat him.
Indurain likely would have beaten him.

I can't imagina any of those 60kg guys winning in a TT from Lance though... Lance could hold 6,8W/kg for 20minutes. assuming he is 74kg (himself states 72,5kg at the end of a GT) he would be pushing around: 503W, while vingegaard pushes <400W. Then again, I would like to see the power vingegaard is pushing. I wouldn't rule out it he is pushing > 6.5W/kg on average for this TT for > 45minutes... after the fastest tour ever.