Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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topt said:
is it ? are Rogla and Kuss allowed to chase him ? Didnt like him before and now this and than all the crap he was doing it for NVH
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They are allowed to chase him, which is what Roglic tried to do today but couldn't because he simply wasn't strong enough. Kuss did it on Tourmalet with more success. Is it so rare to see team tactics these days that nobody understands the concept anymore?
 
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topt

May 20, 2017
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theyoungest said:
They are allowed to chase him, which is what Roglic tried to do today but couldn't because he simply wasn't strong enough. Kuss did it on Tourmalet with more success. Is it so rare to see team tactics these days that nobody understands the concept anymore?
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this is just not true, Rogla went only in the last km when he saw nobody else was chasing him down and gap was getting to big. What team tactics have we seen today ? Kuss said they wanted to win with Rogla, fisherman did this on his own
 
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Samu Cuenca

Samu Cuenca

Sep 26, 2020
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topt said:
this is just not true, Rogla went only in the last km when he saw nobody else was chasing him down and gap was getting to big. What team tactics have we seen today ? Kuss said they wanted to win with Rogla, fisherman did this on his own
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Vingegaard did ask for permission from the team. Whether he had planned to attack before the stage began, I don't know, but it definitely didn't seen like he was thinking about much else than paying tribute to Van Hooydonck.
 
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Boehmand

Boehmand

Mar 5, 2023
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topt said:
is it ? are Rogla and Kuss allowed to chase him ? Didnt like him before and now this and than all the crap he was doing it for NVH
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Yes they are and they did - Roglic towed Ayuso, Mas and Vlasov the last 2 K - they just weren't strong enough to bring Vingegaard back :)

I get all the sympathy for Kuss I like him a lot too, but Grand Tours are not a gift shop, and if he wants to win the Vuelta he has to be able to hack it when the big boys move.
 
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Gargamel35

Sep 5, 2020
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Boehmand said:
Yes they are and they did - Roglic towed Ayuso, Mas and Vlasov the last 2 K - they just weren't strong enough to bring Vingegaard back :)

I get all the sympathy for Kuss I like him a lot too, but Grand Tours are not a gift shop, and if he wants to win the Vuelta he has to be able to hack it when the big boys move.
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He's not allowed to. He needs to wait so mr. Jonas does his thing first. Big boy move indeed.
 
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Boehmand

Boehmand

Mar 5, 2023
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Samu Cuenca said:
Vingegaard did ask for permission from the team. Whether he had planned to attack before the stage began, I don't know, but it definitely didn't seen like he was thinking about much else than paying tribute to Van Hooydonck.
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Some people have just made their minds up to hate Vingegaard, and it doesn't matter what he does they will always find a way to hate on him, it comes with the territory of being the best.

First he could only compete when the race was already over (and lost) and would never be a serious GT contender.

Then he only won because Pogacar had underestimated him.

Then it became about him only performing by wheel sucking and almost never attacking.

Then he was the most boring rider in the world who couldn't win 1 week races.

Then it was because Pogacar's team wasn't good enough and didn't have Van Aert.

Then unsubstantiated "clinic rumours" became the reason.

Then he only won because Pogacar got ill.

Then he was arrogant (or a moron, take your pick) for thinking he could win 2 GT's in a row and the stomach bug "story" was just a smoke screen.

Now we have apparently gotten to him being an disloyal team rider who backstabs his teammates.

It's ridiculous :rolleyes:
 
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Gargamel35

Sep 5, 2020
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Boehmand said:
Are you saying Roglic broke team orders by towing Ayuso, Mas and Vlasov the last 2 K - and dropping Kuss in the proces?
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He towed no one. They cought him quickly and then rode in front of him. Kuss dropped himself and came back quickly too. If Rog attack itself was by team orders or not, no one knows. But we do know Jonas broke team orders and that Kuss/Rog played by the book not attacking/following Jonas.

My wish for tommorow would be Rog attack with Kuss on his wheel dropping Jonas. Rog wins stage, Kuss gains time against Jonas. Win win. Jonas can go visit Nathan first and then his daughter since he loves them so much he keeps winning stages for them instead being with them. I'm sure they would be much happier since they can't really use bike stage win for anything.
 
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Samu Cuenca

Samu Cuenca

Sep 26, 2020
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Gargamel35 said:
Kuss confirmed it. Plan was to win with Roglič. Jonas decided to attack himself before Roglič would.
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He asked for permission to attack and was granted it by the DSs, which meant the team orders changed. Whether or not Roglič was fine with it is a different question, but you make it sound like Vingegaard was only thinking about blocking Roglič from winning the stage.
 
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Lequack

Lequack

Jul 10, 2014
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Baldinger said:
Sepp Kuss literally said that "all three of us has the freedom to attack."
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I doubt he thought he would get attacked just out of nowhere. There was no one else attacking for Vinge to chase, no danger of losing the red. If Vinge doesn't attack we can see that Kuss would've finished neatly in the group with Roglic and Vinge covering any attacks. Next time Kuss is needed as a domestique why would he pace when he just attack? Makes sense right?
 
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Baldinger

Jul 9, 2014
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Lequack said:
I doubt he thought he would get attacked just out of nowhere. There was no one else attacking for Vinge to chase, no danger of losing the red. If Vinge doesn't attack we can see that Kuss would've finished neatly in the group with Roglic and Vinge covering any attacks. Next time Kuss is needed as a domestique why would he pace when he just attack? Makes sense right?
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Well, I'm not inside Kuss' head, but the quote is from after todays stage.
 
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GroupDK

GroupDK

Sep 7, 2010
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Gargamel35 said:
Kuss confirmed it. Plan was to win with Roglič. Jonas decided to attack himself before Roglič would.
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I think many people have asked you to source the thing you constantly are pulling out.
people tried to explain that such a tactic would make no sense for Jumbo Visma, that only 1 guy could do something, and their main captain that seemed to be the strongest shouldn't be allowed on a stage where all sails were set in to get the stage win to honor Nathan and get the breakaway...do you have a source for these things you constantly pulling out and concluding left & right..?

Both Roglic and Seb Kuss struggled today, as they also admitted... Kuss mentioned that it was too steep,..also not ideal for a guy like Vingegaard.
If it wasn't for Vingegaard UAE would have won and all Jumbo's work to get the breakaway caught' would be out the drain.

Jumbo Visma had one goal today and that was the stagewin.. if it was Roglic in a finish or it was Jonas going early or Seb Kuss with diamonds in the legs.. didn't matter, it all came down to how they felt. - usually, such a steep climb isn't ideal for Jonas, but he delivered kudos for that, as otherwise it likely wouldn't have been this tribute-win to Nathan that the team could celebrate and put obs on the difficult situation Nathan and his family are in..
 
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Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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Gargamel35 said:
He's not allowed to. He needs to wait so mr. Jonas does his thing first. Big boy move indeed.
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He would give him a gap and attempt to bridge with Kuss and no one else. When Kuss gets dropped and the other contenders are on his wheel he stops. Bike racing 101, for those paying attention.
When Jonas was greenlighted to attack to move up into the top 3 that strategy was in play. Mr. Kuss, armed with minutes of GC time he could yield to Vingo waited until the gap was sufficient there was no way they'd lose the stage. Sepp jumped and made back more than have of the 1 minute gap in about 1.5km.....once Kuss was clear Mr. Roglic left the room and made up the same amount of time in less than a km. Sounds like he could've gone with Jonas if that's the metric your basis of comparison. If he had left, using simple math; he would have put at least 30 seconds into Jonas who was absolutely gassed from his solo effort then and today.
Jonas did what he should have to get more JV players into the GC game.
Tomorrow you'll find out if Primoz was "tired" or "weak". We don't know but the other GC guys are scared of one of the three riders on JV. The one guy they marked was Roglic. I would wager they know more than us.
 
O

Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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Boehmand said:
Yes they are and they did - Roglic towed Ayuso, Mas and Vlasov the last 2 K - they just weren't strong enough to bring Vingegaard back :)

I get all the sympathy for Kuss I like him a lot too, but Grand Tours are not a gift shop, and if he wants to win the Vuelta he has to be able to hack it when the big boys move.
Click to expand...
My internet provider didn't show me that version of the finish. What carrier do you have?
 
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