Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Froome]

I think it's normal for a defending Tour winner to try and build the best possible shape for the Tour,
I bet he'd start the Tour even 80% (assuming that his Vuelta was 90-95%). He has nothing to lose.


I just think that if they were as confident he'd be in a good enough shape , they'd confirm he is gonna race by now.

I don’t agree on that point. Even in the best scenario, i think they will do bluff until we have a stage where we can see the real shape.

 

[YavorD]

I don’t agree on that point. Even in the best scenario, i think they will do bluff until we have a stage where we can see the real shape.

I don't think they bluff. They would be bluffing if they claimed he is in good shape. Not confirming he's ready for the Tour just feeds the ambitions of Quickstep/Bora/UAE to try and kill him in the first stages when, even by your logic, he isn't supposed to start in top shape.

IMHO a much better bluff would be if they pretend he's looking great. "It's not sure he'll do the Tour yet" doesn't bring any benefits to Visma.

 

[bNator]

I don’t agree on that point. Even in the best scenario, i think they will do bluff until we have a stage where we can see the real shape.

I wouldn’t count on that. Due to injury and especially due to severely interrupted training process I don’t think there’s any real chance he can use the element of surprise and drop Pog at the beginning of the Tour. His chance would be holding in to the best extent possible and hope Pog starts to feel the Giro legs in the final week. But by that point, he will long have revealed whatever he’s got in the bag.

Also if Pog is smart, he will start the Tour full gas knowing that Vinge won’t be in top shape. And let me remind you - even top shape Vingegaard got dropped by Pog several times during the first two weeks of 2023 Tour.

 

[zekance]

I wouldn’t count on that. Due to injury and especially due to severely interrupted training process I don’t think there’s any real chance he can use the element of surprise and drop Pog at the beginning of the Tour. .... And let me remind you - even top shape Vingegaard got dropped by Pog several times during the first two weeks of 2023 Tour.

You said it yourself. Pogačar was at his best for the first two weeks after that the bad preparation started to show. Why wouldn't Vingegaard be at his best for the first two weeks?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I believe he will start in a good shape, otherwise they wouldn't be confident on going to the Tour with him. If he is staying one month in Tignes, they believe he will finish the training camp in good shape.

I'm almost sure regarding two things:

1) They desperately want Vingo to participate in the Tour, especially given their season so far.
2) They don't want him to lose his aura i.e. the Tour victory will be the goal, not just riding it to prepare for the Vuelta for example.

And those two goals may actually be conflicting if Vingo can't reach good enough level. IMO it's not possible that the shortened preparation won't affect his form, their best hope is Pogacar strongly feeling the Giro effects at some point (maybe that's why they are considering the Tour in the first place).

 

[zekance]

I think it's normal for a defending Tour winner to try and build the best possible shape for the Tour,
I bet he'd start the Tour even 80% (assuming that his Vuelta was 90-95%). He has nothing to lose.


I just think that if they were as confident he'd be in a good enough shape , they'd confirm he is gonna race by now.

As good as Vingegaard is, at 80% he can't win Tour de l'Avenir let alone TDF.

Even at 95%. Let's say he can push 7w/kg on 15min climb when at 100%. That means that at 95% he would only be pushing 6,65w/kg.

If he starts TDF and I think he does he will be at least 99%. The real problem is to hold that form and to avoid "I'm dead" days for three long weeks with not ideal preparation.

 

[glassmoon]

Seeing Remco in CdD I still can't see Jonas starting the TdF yet alone thinking about winning it... yes they are different people obviously but they crashed in the same time and Jonas had far more serious injuries...

 

[JimPanzen]

I'm almost sure regarding two things:

1) They desperately want Vingo to participate in the Tour, especially given their season so far.
2) They don't want him to lose his aura i.e. the Tour victory will be the goal, not just riding it to prepare for the Vuelta for example.

And those two goals may actually be conflicting if Vingo can't reach good enough level. IMO it's not possible that the shortened preparation won't affect his form, their best hope is Pogacar strongly feeling the Giro effects at some point (maybe that's why they are considering the Tour in the first place).

I think Vingo will be pretty vulnerable in the first week, whereas Pogi may feel the Giro more towards the end. We'll see.

 

[OJRvE]

Even at 95%. Let's say he can push 7w/kg on 15min climb when at 100%. That means that at 95% he would only be pushing 6,65w/kg.

Even if its very unclear what people mean when they are swinging around with those precentages, I think its absolutely clear that they are not referring to percentages of w/kg

 

[zekance]

Even if its very unclear what people mean when they are swinging around with those precentages, I think its absolutely clear that they are not referring to percentages of w/kg

I agree and that is why we should avoid using percentages when talking about form of the riders.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I'm almost sure regarding two things:

1) They desperately want Vingo to participate in the Tour, especially given their season so far.
2) They don't want him to lose his aura i.e. the Tour victory will be the goal, not just riding it to prepare for the Vuelta for example.

And those two goals may actually be conflicting if Vingo can't reach good enough level. IMO it's not possible that the shortened preparation won't affect his form, their best hope is Pogacar strongly feeling the Giro effects at some point (maybe that's why they are considering the Tour in the first place).

Totally agree with this. Visma has been awful this season so they desperately need Jonas to win the Tour. Pogacar will kill him on Galibier, he is very good in early mountain stages and can creat a huge gap in shallow gradients because he is very powerful. Who is gonna chase Pogacar and not lose a minute? Kuss, Matteo, Hindley? Roglic will not expose himself for 4 km

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I agree and that is why we should avoid using percentages when talking about form of the riders.

I would say 0% is some base level for example after an injury and a long period without training (i.e. 6 w/kg for 15 minutes for a guy like Vingo). If 100% is about 7 w/kg then 90% = 6.9 w/kg, 70% = 6.7 w/kg etc.

Totally agree with this. Visma has been awful this season so they desperately need Jonas to win the Tour. Pogacar will kill him on Galibier, he is very good in early mountain stages and can creat a huge gap in shallow gradients because he is very powerful. Who is gonna chase Pogacar and not lose a minute? Kuss, Matteo, Hindley? Roglic will not expose himself for 4 km

Jorgenson will likely be used to limit the damage, methinks.

 

[Oldermanish]

I would say 0% is some base level for example after an injury and a long period without training (i.e. 6 w/kg for 15 minutes for a guy like Vingo). If 100% is about 7 w/kg then 90% = 6.9 w/kg, 70% = 6.7 w/kg etc.



Jorgenson will likely be used to limit the damage, methinks.

Fortunately Jorgenson knows his limits and won't be abused. What makes him dangerous is the unknown for other contenders. It still remains to be seen how JV could support him, Kuss and whomever emerges at the top of their early results.

 

[AmRacer]

Fortunately Jorgenson knows his limits and won't be abused. What makes him dangerous is the unknown for other contenders. It still remains to be seen how JV could support him, Kuss and whomever emerges at the top of their early results.

Jonas Vingegaard won't support Jorgenson.

 

[Oldermanish]

Jonas Vingegaard won't support Jorgenson.

You're right. He won't be in that position because Jorgenson, free of dom duty will be up the road.

 

[Blobs]

Genuin question to people from danmark. I meet a danish couple in france two weeks back,who happened to like cycling even so we ended up talking and they was from danmark but the guy didnt like vingegaard at all, how?

Is this the perception in danmark case why? or was it just a rare isolated case?

No, he's generally very popular.

 

[velaso montador]

No, he's generally very popular.

Okei nice as he should be!

 

[Krzysztof_O]

No, he's generally very popular.

Skeletor like a pope!

 

[Netserk]

Skeletor like a pope!

Unfortunately, the extreme egalitarianism here meant that he wasn't the only one celebrated, all Danish riders in the Tour could stand on the balcony.

Yay, Vingegaard delivered the greatest Danish sports achievement of the year, better celebrate some random breakaway fodder from a wildcard team ...

 

[Froome]

"C'mon Jonas, if you catch him, you kill him".

Grischa Niermann was on fire.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

"C'mon Jonas, if you catch him, you kill him".

Grischa Niermann was on fire.

Grischa will be on suicide watch if Skeletor doesn't show the world who's the strongest this year. Can't wait to his reactions!

 

[Sciatic]

No, he's generally very popular.

Nice answer

 

[zekance]

I would say 0% is some base level for example after an injury and a long period without training (i.e. 6 w/kg for 15 minutes for a guy like Vingo). If 100% is about 7 w/kg then 90% = 6.9 w/kg, 70% = 6.7 w/kg etc.

That could work.

 

[shadowrider]

I agree and that is why we should avoid using percentages when talking about form of the riders.

Of course it's all about %. We know the level of every toprider when in topshape. F.i a Vingegaard at 98,5 or 99 % will be at the same level of Roglic at 100 %.

 

[Rob5091]

No Vuelta for JV - "family reasons"
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/jonas-vingegaard-will-not-race-vuelta-a-espana-tour-de-france-likely-the-only-option-for-a-grand-tour-in-2024
His presence is not certain at the French Grand Tour, but if he does not race there it is unlikely that he will be racing a three-week race in 2024 as the Vuelta a España is apparently out of the plans.

This has been reported by Het Laatste Nieuws this morning. The Belgian news outlet has argued that Vingegaard's presence in the Vuelta is at risk due to family circumstances. It is not clear what this may be. "As a result, he would only have a Grand Tour in his legs this year if he rode the Tour."
Original article https://www.hln.be/tour-de-france/o...our-deelname-van-aert-en-vingegaard~a60c38b5/