Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Samu Cuenca]

Think SB, should Pogi ride with med car for 20 minutes just behind Pidders wheel?

If there was reason to be worried, then maybe. It's not like it would have made a difference considering he was able to close the existing gap to Pidcock and easily win.

 

[yaco]

If there was reason to be worried, then maybe. It's not like it would have made a difference considering he was able to close the existing gap to Pidcock and easily win.

And in this case it was clear that Pogi did not head his head, so there would be no concussion test.

 

[AmRacer]

If there was reason to be worried, then maybe. It's not like it would have made a difference considering he was able to close the existing gap to Pidcock and easily win.

His PR crash then?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

His PR crash then?

I was never worried about his head there. However riders are more likely to exit one-day races on their own, because only the win or a top 10 matters on the day, whereas in a stage race a rider will be more likely to continue since there's more at stake.

 

[AmRacer]

I was never worried about his head there. However riders are more likely to exit one-day races on their own, because only the win or a top 10 matters on the day, whereas in a stage race a rider will be more likely to continue since there's more at stake.

So, how about Jonas then.
Assume he spent 20 minutes in the med car, and assume he didn't have a concussion. What time would he get after crossing the finish line?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

So, how about Jonas then.
Assume he spent 20 minutes in the med car, and assume he didn't have a concussion. What time would he get after crossing the finish line?

He didn't crash inside 20 minutes from the finish. Yaco's idea was to assess him, and then, if cleared, he would be put back in the peloton. Anything he'd lose from that point on would count.

 

[AmRacer]

He didn't crash inside 20 minutes from the finish. Yaco's idea was to assess him, and then, if cleared, he would be put back in the peloton. Anything he'd lose from that point on would count.

Yaco mentioned that the rider should be assessed in the medical car for 15-20 minutes. And the car should follow the peloton. If cleared, the rider would have had a rest, recovered and not needed racing those 15-20 minutes.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Yaco mentioned that the rider should be assessed in the medical car for 15-20 minutes. And the car should follow the peloton. If cleared, the rider would have had a rest, recovered and not needed racing those 15-20 minutes.

The rider would still have crashed and have been off the bike for 15-20 minutes (I'm not sure it would have to take that long, but I'm no doctor), so it would not necessarily be an advantage, depending on the stage design and how close to the finish the crash occurres. If it happens at a point where attacks will happen, then it will of course be difficult to determine where the rider should be reinstated, but @yaco will have to explain how that should be handled.

I'm not advocating for this specifically, but I do think the rules have to be changed, so it isn't up to the teams to decide cause they will likely want the rider to finish the stage before deciding what to do (and that doesn't only include concussions but other injuries, too). It doesn't sound like Vingegaard should have kept riding here, and neither should Adam Yates in UAE last year, but he was at least eventually pulled out.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Is Skeletor ready to slay Teddy? JV looks (over?) confident.

'Compared to last year, we have taken another big step' – Visma management rate Jonas Vingegaard as favourite for Tour de France

'You could perhaps say that Pogačar is better on Tour of Flanders-like courses, but this is about a three-week race'

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[YavorD]

Is Skeletor ready to slay Teddy? JV looks (over?) confident.

'Compared to last year, we have taken another big step' – Visma management rate Jonas Vingegaard as favourite for Tour de France

'You could perhaps say that Pogačar is better on Tour of Flanders-like courses, but this is about a three-week race'

www.cyclingnews.com

I guess we'll have some basic information in 2 weeks.

 

[Rackham]

Is Skeletor ready to slay Teddy? JV looks (over?) confident.

'Compared to last year, we have taken another big step' – Visma management rate Jonas Vingegaard as favourite for Tour de France

'You could perhaps say that Pogačar is better on Tour of Flanders-like courses, but this is about a three-week race'

www.cyclingnews.com

This is exactly what I expect. Total terminator mode with Vinge making the same jump Pog did last year, 12 months later.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

This is exactly what I expect. Total terminator mode with Vinge making the same jump Pog did last year, 12 months later.

I do think the gap vs the rest this year will be the biggest in recent memory. Different league. The main question is how exactly the two mutants will fare vs each other.

 

[Red Rick]

I do think the gap vs the rest this year will be the biggest in recent memory. Different league. The main question is how exactly the two mutants will fare vs each other.

Could it get any bigger than let's say last year but with Vingegaard not having crashed in Itzulia?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Could it get any bigger?

Last year Vingo wasn't too far ahead of Remco (due to preparation) while in 2023 Pog cracked and also didn't get that big gap. This year 2nd vs 3rd gap should be enormous, crashes aside.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Curious, because the wishful thinking is through the roof, and it's okay by all means—no problem. But I wonder, what makes you think he will even digest in the gap? Was it when Almeida dropped him 2/2 on MTF?

Just curious besides hope, what makes you believe it from a logical standpoint? Vingegaard has always been good in spring, and he aimed to ride the Vuelta last year too, this year he even started to train early to come out banging. He was also way better relative to, for instance, Almeida and others in any other spring

See my previous post. I think Vingo has a lot of time this year to peak for July, despite early setback.

 

[Rackham]

Curious, because the wishful thinking is through the roof, and it's okay by all means—no problem. But I wonder, what makes you think he will even digest in the gap? Was it when Almeida dropped him 2/2 on MTF?

Just curious besides hope what makes you believe it from a logical standpoint cause Vingegaard always been good in spring and he aimed to ride the Vuelta last year too and was way better relative to for instance Almeida and others at the spring

Because Vingegaard was better than Pog in 2022 and 23. Then he had a bad prep last year but this year there's no reason to believe he won't make the same % gains as Pog did last year.

And no, the Dauphiné won't reveal everything really. But the one thing that can make the Tour slightly spicier than simply the two of them riding off and putting an enormous gap into the rest of the field is the fact it's a really backended TdF route so the gaps in the first 10 days won't be huge. It'll make racing more nervous. That can mean crashes for anyone.

 

[Rackham]

What do you even say to a statement like this. Pog had a broken wrist while riding the Tour '23, and Roglic would have beaten him. Using that as a benchmark doesn’t mean much in today’s data its as reduntant as gets.

I’m also not saying Vingegaard can’t improve—because the same could be said about him last year but the difference is that it remains to be seen whether he can reach those numbers, which cannot be said about Pog. That’s the distinct difference: one is proven, the other is hope in todays benchmark, not the benchmark of 22. Theres a gigantic difference.

It's really not. We heard the exact same thing 3 years ago. I feel like people need to wake up a little and smell the coffee. Vingegaard is a monster climber and in the Tour a monster ITT specialist. Everyone is going faster. Evenepoel with last year's numbers would have been in contention to win the 2022 Tour for example. Rog did his best performances in the Vuelta last year. So when you look beyond Pog, he doesn't exist in a vacuum.

And FYI I don't even support Vingegaard at all. He's not my favorite rider, far from it. But don't act surprised if he's better than Pog in July. It would be consistent with their respective careers so far.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Plugge stacking loads of pressure on for no reason, what a clown. Has to perform somewhat at the Dauphine now, especially after a muted start to the season. Bit on Pogacar too, season has still been good for him but if he doesn't win then it's a year without adding any new races to his Palmares, which wouldn't be ideal. So it's not like the Dauphine doesn't matter for either of these guys. Suppose he could try and win Quebec but he's not the favourite there.

 

[Rou]

Plugge with another bullish statement. Pog's level and performances from last year were borderline comical so the only way I see Jonas beating him in July is if Pog has regressed.

 

[Rackham]

Lol Pogacar won more than Vingegaard in GT last year alone than Vingegaard has his entire career what are you saying, like it couldnt be more false.

Vingegaard has 6 GT stage wins and 2 GT his entire career!
Pog won 2 GT and 12 GT stages last year alone more than Vingegaard entire career in one year. Also 4 GT to 2 how is it consistent? thats just false what your saying.

Not my fav rider either but ofc I aknowledge hes good and the best guy to challenge him in the mountains it goes without saying, super good historically but no need to make stuff up on the way to make you believe stuff. Fyi I hope Vingegaard is better than ever too, would make it fun and entertaining but thats not the same as I think it, its not hard to seperate emotions and logic.

You've lost me a bit here. Pog is the more explosive of the two and wins more stages. He's more of a 'racer', within context. But seriously I think people who have trouble separating emotions from logic are the ones totally underestimating the guys who produced Combloux 2023. It doesn't matter how little Vingegaard races or how few stages he wins compared to Pog when he drops the hammer on one stage.

 

[Rou]

You've lost me a bit here. Pog is the more explosive of the two and wins more stages. He's more of a 'racer', within context. But seriously I think people who have trouble separating emotions from logic are the ones totally underestimating the guys who produced Combloux 2023. It doesn't matter how little Vingegaard races or how few stages he wins compared to Pog when he drops the hammer on one stage.

We see what you're saying. But Combloux compared to Plateau de Beille and Isola 2000 looks average in terms of raw power.
Now if Jonas shows up in July and does 7 W/KG on la Plagne then cycling will go full WWE mode for me.

 

[AmRacer]

Poor Remco

 

[Rou]

Poor Remco

Yeah, Plugge is planning for Visma to OTL him. Hehe

 

[Peyroteo94]

They are so arrogant. I know Vingegaard will fly in July but they are underestimating the best rider ever.

 

[Berniece]

They are so arrogant. I know Vingegaard will fly in July but they are underestimate the best rider ever.

I don’t think they expect MVDP to win TDF