Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Berniece]

It's a sub 20 minute climb. If the TT bike is 2.5kg heavier, you would lose somewhere around 1 minute on the climb due to the extra weight iirc. Aero advantage for the TT bike will be minimal to non-existent at around 21km/h on the climb. Aero advantage on the first 3.5km flat, i could see somewhere between 20-30 seconds at best. Imho, doing the entire thing on a TT bike, the trade-off seems ludicrous. If you do a bikechange, it could be worth it if everything goes smoothly, but it's an added risk with minimal gains, maybe 5-10 seconds best case scenario.

Road bike with TT handlebars could work, but even though it will give you somewhat of a better aero position, it still won't give you anything close to TT bike aero advantages. So how much are you really gaining by it on 3.5km? Maybe 10 seconds? But then it also adds a few hundreds of grams of weight to your setup, and how much of that advantage are you going to salvage on the top? Maybe 2-5 seconds? It's something but it's not going to make you win or lose the Tour.

How is the wind? If there's a lot of headwind it might make sense? But like you said, if the bike really is so much heavier, it doesn't make sense.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Even 1-1.5 kg is a lot, specially when there is only 3-3.5 km of flat terrain. Even if he gains 10" in aerodynamics (which I don't believe) in 3.5 km, he will lose 10 seconds at least in 8 km of climbing at 7.6%

 

[Berniece]

Also why not use handlebars for the first 3-4km's and then remove them? Aren't there proper systems that are safe and can easily be removed?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Also why not use handlebars for the first 3-4km's and then remove them? Aren't there proper systems that are safe and can easily be removed?

I don‘t think that‘s much faster than a bike change.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

You would think that Visma learned from PBF 2020 that doing cat. 1 climbs on time trial bikes is a bad idea...

 

[Red Rick]

You would think that Visma learned from PBF 2020 that doing cat. 1 climbs on time trial bikes is a bad idea...

Pretty sure it was a personal choice of Dumoulin cause Van Aert and Roglic did switch and Roglic didn't exactly overperform that ITT.

There are definitely cat 1s and even HC climbs where full TT setup makes sense, but this is not one of them.

 

[theyoungest]

Pretty sure it was a personal choice of Dumoulin cause Van Aert and Roglic didn't switch and Roglic didn't exactly overperform that ITT.

There are definitely cat 1s and even HC climbs where full TT setup makes sense, but this is not one of them.

You mean that they did switch.

Vingegaard says it's just a guess but of course he knows how much his bike will weigh for the mountain TT. And it's not 9 kgs. It could also be an elaborate ploy to get Pogacar to use his TT bike (which if past performances have to be believed is rather heavy) and then use your road bike yourself

 

[Jan the Man]

would be very surprised if he did the TT on a TT bike. The flat section is too short to justify any material gain as against the additional weight he’d be carrying up a climb. The same applies to a bike change. Just too short a flat section imo to jusify the bike change. Some TT bars seem to make more sense but again each to their own and don’t think it will make a huge difference

 

[Red Rick]

You mean that they did switch.

Vingegaard says it's just a guess but of course he knows how much his bike will weigh for the mountain TT. And it's not 9 kgs. It could also be an elaborate ploy to get Pogacar to use his TT bike (which if past performances have to be believed is rather heavy) and then use your road bike yourself

You're not goading Pogacar into anything. Unless somehting major changed, he's going full road setup, he even switched on Combloux which is a 28kph average climb or something.

The real guess is how quickly you gain time on a TT bike vs a road bike. I think we've seen some bike switches on MTTs that had 5-6km flat at the start in Romandie and Suisse, but tomorrow is only 3.5km and it's already no perfect flat, so a switch is out of the question.

I think the opposite end of the equation is that we've seen some riders do bike switches for climbs as short as 7 minutes with almost everyone switching on Ezaro in 2020 and some guys (including Roglic) switching on Malhao in Algarve this year.

The other question is if there's semi TT setups where you just put TT bars on the road setup that you then remove as you're going uphill but I don't think that's gonna happen either. That would be a pretty neat solution I think.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

The other question is if there's semi TT setups where you just put TT bars on the road setup that you then remove as you're going uphill but I don't think that's gonna happen either. That would be a pretty neat solution I think.

We saw Contador try something like this in the 2013 Tour TT, when he was riding with a normal bike that had a TT rear wheel.

 

[Valv.Piti]

We saw Contador try something like this in the 2013 Tour TT, when he was riding with a normal bike that had a TT rear wheel.

And he did surprisingly well considering how bad he was the rest of the race!

Edit: And I just checked the results, Purito Rodriguez was 10 seconds behind peak Christopher Clive Froome. I don't remember that at all.

 

[Red Rick]

We saw Contador try something like this in the 2013 Tour TT, when he was riding with a normal bike that had a TT rear wheel.

I remember that moment of hope when he had the fastest T3 and then Froome switched to full TT on the downhill split and beat him.

There were also some semi TT setups in the 2011 and 2013 MTTs of the Giro I think. La Polsa nowadays could just be full TT.

 

[meat puppet]

Yes, Contador style TT bars on a climbing road bike and a deep rear wheel (no full disc tho) would be my choice.

No bike change for sure. One would have to gain about 5sec/km to justify it, perhaps a bit more to include deceleration and acceleration on top of the switch itself. Then finding rhythm might take time etc. But maybe some riders take this route as well, interesting to see.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Even 1-1.5 kg is a lot, specially when there is only 3-3.5 km of flat terrain. Even if he gains 10" in aerodynamics (which I don't believe) in 3.5 km, he will lose 10 seconds at least in 8 km of climbing at 7.6%

You don't think you gain 3 seconds per km with a TT bike compared to a road bike?

 

[Peyroteo94]

You don't think you gain 3 seconds per km with a TT bike compared to a road bike?

I don't think so.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I don't think so.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I can be wrong.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

We saw Contador try something like this in the 2013 Tour TT, when he was riding with a normal bike that had a TT rear wheel.

Ullrich did something similar in the Alpe d'huez TT in 2004, no?

Although I'm not an expert what back then qualified as a TT bike and what as a road bike but the hoods and the front wheel indicate to me it was a bit of a mix.
And Alpe d'Huez has a lot more +8% kilometers than Peyragudes.

 

[Kedjan]

Vinge deceived us when he was able to follow Pog's attacks.

We hoped he would be closer because we wanted a good fight.

But now we know, Dauphine was more indicative of his actual level.
And let's be honest that level is a huge step below Pog.

In some sense it makes me sad, the epic battle between Pog and Vinge is now over for good.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Did the climb slower than in 2022 I think? Which was at the end of week 3 after a harder stage.
Something went very wrong at Visma, all this talk about more muscle mass and being best as ever. And then an absolutely disastrous ITT and now finishing 12 secons ahead of Lipowitz.

He basically did the reverse Pogacar, from a high mountain specialist to a puncheur killer. Maybe should show up for the classics in that shape instead of here at the Tour if this is the regression.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

if he had been allowed to stay more at home and also remodel the kitchen he would’ve been better

 

[Kedjan]

He climbed better last year in the tour.... And that after way worse preperation than this year.

Trajectory ain't good to say the least.

 

[Rackham]

I knew the foreshadowing was bad after that ITT last week. He's worse than he was last year.

 

[SHAD0W93]

This time loss is something I expected in 2 days after he mentally cracked. If Vingegaard still thinks he can win, I wouldn’t be surprised if that crack still occurs and he drops to around 5th in GC.

 

[YavorD]

Did we hear from Trine yet?
Van Aert selfish yesterday, didn't put his nose for her husband today., what is this?

Some pep talk is needed here, I think..