Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Peyroteo94]

Now I was thinking about his wife's interview when she told Vingegaard is already close to his retirement. This performance maybe hum... I hope he does the Giro next year and build sime confidence otherwise I think he is retiring in 2 years. I feel a burnout, specially after his crash last year.

 

[CatchyH]

At this rate he won't even be the 2nd best climber next year. Tough luck but i guess he had his time in the spotlight and can always say he beat Pogačar twice in the Tour.

 

[Rule #9 apostle]

if he had been allowed to stay more at home and also remodel the kitchen he would’ve been better

In all seriousness, his life partner going out saying that they're burning him out is a pretty big deal. You would think she would know him quite well. And he is way below his best this year.

 

[Kedjan]

I knew the foreshadowing was bad after that ITT last week. He's worse than he was last year.

Yep, I also got bad vibes.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Kinda similar pattern to Dauphine (Combloux). He lost more in the second half of the climb and Lipowitz was closing the gap. It seems initial thermonuclear pace and attack by UAE & Pogacar made some guys pay for it later on the climb. Vingo's clearly missing something in longer efforts (also in the TT). Can his enhanced explosivity be a factor?

 

[Red Rick]

Wonder if he's experiencing the Call of the Void Giro

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I knew the foreshadowing was bad after that ITT last week. He's worse than he was last year.

Good prediction. At that time I still suspected it was a day off. Vingo is clearly missing sth in longer efforts while his explosivity is better (but way less important in a GT)

 

[theyoungest]

Kinda similar pattern to Dauphine (Combloux). He lost more in the second half of the climb and Lipowitz was closing the gap. It seems initial thermonuclear pace and attack by UAE & Pogacar made some guys pay for it later on the climb. Vingo's clearly missing something in longer efforts (also in the TT). Can his enhanced explosivity be a factor?

I don't know what his training has focused on, but it's pretty clear that the longer efforts (normally his strong suit) are now his weak point. It seems they were too obsessed with increasing his explosivity, like that was the problem last year (it wasn't). And now he's not particularly great at anything.

I already thought the Tour was over after the time trial, so I didn't quite understand why people thought he would be anywhere close to Pogacar today, but this is exceptionally poor. He can do better, and has done better. He seems to be lacking that extra gear. Back to the drawing board it is for next year (or indeed go for the Giro).

 

[Rackham]

Good prediction. At that time I still suspected it was a day off. Vingo is clearly missing sth in longer efforts while his explosivity is better (but way less important in a GT)

It's about the pain face.

Seriously, in the Dauphiné on Combloux he looked like he was hurting, then again the day after. I wasn't used to that Vinge face, not during his 'dominance'. And again in the ITT under that helmet and today as well, i.e. he suffered hard out there, rocking on the bike as well and looking like he was dying.

Forget numbers, it's all relative. What matters is this rider is not what he used to be. He doesn't have that swagger he had in 2022/23, nor the ease of pedal motion.

 

[Lorzenz08]

It's about the pain face.

Seriously, in the Dauphiné on Combloux he looked like he was hurting, then again the day after. I wasn't used to that Vinge face, not during his 'dominance'. And again in the ITT under that helmet and today as well, i.e. he suffered hard out there, rocking on the bike as well and looking like he was dying.

Forget numbers, it's all relative. What matters is this rider is not what he used to be. He doesn't have that swagger he had in 2022/23, nor the ease of pedal motion.

This is weird why Visma was so confident then. Usually if they know the rider isn't where he should be but not reveal anything they would say something like " We had a great preparation, and we are ready fo fight for the win...". Be confident but stay vague.

But they went beyond and said Vingegaard is the strongest he has ever been : " I’m heavier now, but it’s muscle, and we know it gives a lot more power. I can say I’m on the highest level that I’ve ever been"

 

[YavorD]

This is weird why Visma was so confident then. Usually if they know the rider isn't where he should be but not reveal anything they would say something like " We had a great preparation, and we are ready fo fight for the win...". Be confident but stay vague.

But they went beyond and said Vingegaard is the strongest he has ever been : " I’m heavier now, but it’s muscle, and we know it gives a lot more power. I can say I’m on the highest level that I’ve ever been"

Wasn't Contador also pushing his "best numbers ever" each year only to be dropped all the time as well like 10 years ago?

 

[Mayomaniac]

Wasn't Contador also pushing his "best numbers ever" each year only to be dropped all the time as well like 10 years ago?

Tbf, Contador did some ass training focussed only on intensity and often faded later on the stage after lighting it up early (that Galibier stage that Roglic won from the breakaway, for example).

 

[Sciatic]

Did the climb slower than in 2022 I think? Which was at the end of week 3 after a harder stage.
Something went very wrong at Visma, all this talk about more muscle mass and being best as ever. And then an absolutely disastrous ITT and now finishing 12 secons ahead of Lipowitz.

He basically did the reverse Pogacar, from a high mountain specialist to a puncheur killer. Maybe should show up for the classics in that shape instead of here at the Tour if this is the regression.

To finish only 13 seconds in front of Lipowitz is indeed indicator that he was just bad today. And as you point out the whole team was really poor.

 

[Purito91]

I think vingegard in 2024 before his crash looked really strong.
At the tour he was really strong, despite the bad preparation. I belive he was better than now.
Something went wrong this preparation.
Mabe too much muscleweight or he is already declining.

 

[Red Rick]

Tbf, Contador did some ass training focussed only on intensity and often faded later on the stage after lighting it up early (that Galibier stage that Roglic won from the breakaway, for example).

Imagine if Alberto had learned about zone 2 training.

 

[fenns]

I think vingegard in 2024 before his crash looked really strong.
At the tour he was really strong, despite the bad preparation. I belive he was better than now.
Something went wrong this preparation.
Mabe too much muscleweight or he is already declining.

Pog 2024+ has improved immensely and is just better than him. It's as simple as that. It's not as if anyone else gets close to him.

Jonas should attack on the Tourmalet - or at least the Peyresorde - dropping Pog on the final climb just doesn't happen anymore. But of course he won't because it could go badly wrong. He could try on the Madeleine but it may be too late by then.

 

[skippo12]

Pog in a league of his own. Vingegaard is still levels above the rest. If you look at the splits Pog and Vinge went with a brutal positive split. Pog was more than one minute ahead of Riis early in the climb. Vingegaard nuked himself trying to match Pog' pace and paid for it in the final 3-4km. Ask O'Connor where mortals end up when they fly to close to the sun.

As far as w/kg numbers go. I wouldn't compare todays stage to past performances. Except for Pog one could make the case that all GC riders underperformed and I think that isn't about a low climbing level. More about the brutal pace in the first 11 days. Every single stage with a cat 4 anywhere close to the finish was a GC battle. Breakaway formation was a never ending slugfest.
Visma is responsible for a lot of this and the entire cumulative fatigue is Pogacar's weakness approach backfired big time. Who would have thought that a 60kg climbing specialist is going to suffer more than a rider that finished on the podium of every single monument this season.

 

[ppanther92]

I would say Vingegaard is still far above the rest. If he doesn't do this ridiculous first 10 days without being the strongest and doesn't mispace today.

That said, I am honestly indeed concerned by his level. Pogacar was awesome and he took this other level since last year, and probably there is no way of winning for Vingegaard in a normal duel between the two. But he is for sure worse than last year (ITT, today) and that quite clearly. And given his story last year, thats really not a good sign.

 

[ppanther92]

Pog 2024+ has improved immensely and is just better than him. It's as simple as that. It's not as if anyone else gets close to him.

No, sure. But leave Pogacar out and Vingegaard is just worse than last year (which logically shouldn't make sense).

 

[fenns]

No, sure. But leave Pogacar out and Vingegaard is just worse than last year (which logically shouldn't make sense).

It would be logical if he's past his peak. But I think the jury is out as to whether he's worse than last year - he suffered today by putting too much into trying to stay with Pog's attack. I'd say Lipowitz isn't finishing within 30 secs of Jonas on a MTF again this Tour.

 

[ppanther92]

It would be logical if he's past his peak. But I think the jury is out as to whether he's worse than last year - he suffered today by putting too much into trying to stay with Pog's attack. I'd say Lipowitz isn't finishing within 30 secs of Jonas on a MTF again this Tour.

I agree with that. But I also would think in his Tour winning years, he would for example have done better on the flat ITT stage. But jury is out on that indeed.

 

[Red Rick]

Visma was really smart to make this black jersey for the TdF so they could all get cooked in the sun.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Imagine if Alberto had learned about zone 2 training.

Not to mention hiring a swimming coach like Sky did during the marginal gains era, Conty would have won like 10 tours.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Visma was really smart to make this black jersey for the TdF so they could all get cooked in the sun.

Even more big brain from Vingegaard to barely wear the new jersey and ride around with his sleeves cut off while training.

 

[Blanco]

I read somewhere on this forum, that Vingegaard is probably the 2nd best rider in the world currently, he or Van Der Poel if I remember correctly. Well, I think it is time to stop with such claims. Guy won't come near winning any race with Pogacar around, which is not case for Van Der Poel, or even Remco (ITT's). He's 4th at best.