Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[pelotonIQ]

Trine is right, Jonas needs a team that 100% is at his service, if Visma isn't able to provide him that, there are other teams ready, namely Ineos. Jonas is still levels above anyone not named Pogacar so what is he waiting for? Make demands.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Vingegaard has excellent support at Visma-LAB and any other team would be a downgrade for him. Visma rode an excellent Tour and the only flaw was Vingegaard himself not being on the level required on S5 and S12.

Vingegaard's result in GC on Cofidis (worst team in the tour) would be 2nd, and Visma (the best team) is 2nd.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Vingegaard has excellent support at Visma-LAB and any other team would be a downgrade for him. Visma rode an excellent Tour and the only flaw was Vingegaard himself not being on the level required on S5 and S12.

Vingegaard's result in GC on Cofidis (worst team in the tour) would be 2nd, and Visma (the best team) is 2nd.

*If his teammates let go of their personal ambitions and 100% work for him, then yes. Every single pedal stroke and every watt their legs produce should be in favor of Jonas.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Trine is right, Jonas needs a team that 100% is at his service, if Visma isn't able to provide him that, there are other teams ready, namely Ineos. Jonas is still levels above anyone not named Pogacar so what is he waiting for? Make demands.

Vingegaard has excellent support at Visma-LAB and any other team would be a downgrade for him. Visma rode an excellent Tour and the only flaw was Vingegaard himself not being on the level required on S5 and S12.

Vingegaard's result in GC on Cofidis (worst team in the tour) would be 2nd, and Visma (the best team) is 2nd.

Indeed it's interesting, on how much opinions can differ. Ultimately it will likely come down to Jonas didn't win the Tour and hence there likely will be consequences involved. For better or for worse, that is to be seen.

 

[Pozzovivo]

*If his teammates let go of their personal ambitions and 100% work for him, then yes. Every single pedal stroke and every watt their legs produce should be in favor of Jonas.

The team worked perfectly for him on all stages, barring that one random break stage (s15?). That 30 second bridge he did on the wheel of Romeo did not cost him anything, but media decided to make it a big story for no reason. VISMA-LAB was the best team in the tour. Clearly superior to UAE.

And if Yates and Van Aert did not go in the break all tour, he would still have finished 2nd, but Visma-Lab would have had a way worse tour without the stage wins.

 

[Pozzovivo]

One cannot hold these two opinions at the same time:

1. Pogacar is so much better than VIngegaard that 2nd is the best realistic result for him in GC unless something happens to Pogacar.
2. VISMA-LAB is wrong to chase stages with their riders and should only support Vingegaard's chance to win the Tour.

Yet, this is so much of the discussion. VISMALAB are trying to maximize their results. And they did just that.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

No one would finish on the podium if they rode for Cofidis.

 

[pelotonIQ]

The team worked perfectly for him on all stages, barring that one random break stage (s15?). That 30 second bridge he did on the wheel of Romeo did not cost him anything, but media decided to make it a big story for no reason. VISMA-LAB was the best team in the tour. Clearly superior to UAE.

And if Yates and Van aert did not go in the break all tour he would have finished 2nd and Visma-lab would have been having a way worse tour without the stage wins.

*If his teammates let go of their personal ambitions and 100% work for him.

3/7 of Jonas domestiques (WvA, S. Yates and Affini) raced the Giro.
Benoot raced a full classic spring season.

Only guys that had a reasonable low intensity spring season was Jorgenson, Kuss and Campenaerts. Sorry but this is not enough to contest for the Tour.

How many of Pogacar's domestiques raced the Giro? Only A. Yates.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

*If his teammates let go of their personal ambitions and 100% work for him.

3/7 of Jonas domestiques raced the Giro.
Benoot raced a full classic spring season.

Only guys that had a reasonable low intensity spring season was Jorgenson, Kuss and Campenaerts. Sorry but this is not enough to contest for the Tour.

Hahahaha Now Benoot racing a full classics season is bad, half the UAE team did that. Adam Yates raced the Giro as well. And no, Jorgenson racing six Belgian classics and Paris Nice for GC is not low intensity.

 

[AmRacer]

Hahahaha Now Benoot racing a full classics season is bad, half the UAE team did that. Adam Yates raced the Giro as well. And no, Jorgenson racing six Belgian classics and Paris Nice for GC is not low intensity.

It's what they do in the GT that counts. Other races are prep

 

[Pozzovivo]

*If his teammates let go of their personal ambitions and 100% work for him.

3/7 of Jonas domestiques (WvA, S. Yates and Affini) raced the Giro.
Benoot raced a full classic spring season.

Only guys that had a reasonable low intensity spring season was Jorgenson, Kuss and Campenaerts. Sorry but this is not enough to contest for the Tour.

How many of Pogacar's domestiques raced the Giro? Only A. Yates.

The team performed extremely well. Better than UAE's. Only guy who did not deliver was Wout, but he's been a bit off all season. Compare that to UAE?

 

[Pozzovivo]

half the UAE team did that

Including Pogacar...

 

[pelotonIQ]

Hahahaha Now Benoot racing a full classics season is bad, half the UAE team did that. Adam Yates raced the Giro as well. And no, Jorgenson racing six Belgian classics and Paris Nice for GC is not low intensity.

Which proves my point even further. Thanks, I guess

 

[Pozzovivo]

No one would finish on the podium if they rode for Cofidis.

Pogacar and Vingegaard would absolutely podium for Cofidis.

 

[Pozzovivo]

*If his teammates let go of their personal ambitions and 100% work for him.

3/7 of Jonas domestiques (WvA, S. Yates and Affini) raced the Giro.
Benoot raced a full classic spring season.

Only guys that had a reasonable low intensity spring season was Jorgenson, Kuss and Campenaerts. Sorry but this is not enough to contest for the Tour.

How many of Pogacar's domestiques raced the Giro? Only A. Yates.

They did work for him. Better than any other team worked for their leader.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Which proves my point even further.

Proves what point, that there should be a team that only allows one of its best riders to get results throughout the year? I doubt riders of the caliber of Jorgenson and Van Aert would ride for such a team.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Proves what point, that there should be a team that only allows one of its best riders to get results throughout the year? I doubt riders of the caliber of Jorgenson and Van Aert would ride for such a team.

Proved my point that Jonas team isn't riding 100% for him. His domestiques are doing Giro's and full classic seasons instead of peaking for the Tour with him. Jonas needs a more serious team if he wants the best chance at beating Pogacar.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Proved my point that Jonas team isn't riding 100% for him.

Because like every team they let riders pursue their own goals throughout the season? I don‘t know how you think this backs up anything except for them being a cycling thing.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Because like every team they let riders pursue their own goals throughout the season? I don‘t know how you think this backs up anything except for them being a cycling thing.

They can still pursue their goals without burning themselves out.

 

[Pozzovivo]

They can still pursue their goals without burning themselves out.

Jorgenson didn't race for two months between RVV (06.04) and Dauphine. This is not a good take. Visma is extremely conservative not letting their riders race too much and prepare optimally for the Tour.

If one team has a tour first approach like USPS or Team SKY today, it's VISMA-LAB.

Wellens rode races until may.
Narvaez until 20th of april.
Politt until 18th of may.
Sivakov Liege 20th of april
Soler 27th of april
All did Duaphine and Tour with Pogacar

Almeida rode until 4th of may, and then did the "suboptimal" tour de suisse instead of Dauphine.

Compare Visma to UAE and the result is clear - VISMA make tougher priorites than UAE to prepare optimally for the Tour.

 

[AmRacer]

The team performed extremely well. Better than UAE's. Only guy who did not deliver was Wout, but he's been a bit off all season. Compare that to UAE?

Wout delivered in Paris, but he had the Giro in his legs.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Wout delivered in Paris, but he had the Giro in his legs.

Fair enough but in the context of supporting Vingegaard which was what we discussed.

 

[AmRacer]

Fair enough but in the context of supporting Vingegaard which was what we discussed.

Wout didn't do much

 

[Pozzovivo]

Wout didn't do much

Which was exactly what I said in the original post. OnIy guy who did not deliver for Vingegaard in the tour.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So Wout is to blame for Jonas not to win? If he by any chance isn't will he still pay the price for that next year? Or do you reckon he will maintain his freedom at the Tour?