Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Andy schleck]

In this Tour, the only stage I am not sure Pogi can follow him, is stage 17. The other stages, I put my hands on fire that Pogi will follow him and eventually gain time (bonus seconds) pretty easily.

I bet jumbo's plan is to vingegaard attack on joux plane and then on la loze. La loze is a monstruous climb, it can decide the tour.

The combo cote amerands/la bettex and the combo petit ballon/platzerwasel suits very well pogacar.

 

[houtdffan]

Nonsense. Ask Tony Rominger if he would have swapped one Vuelta victory for a TdF? The reality is money talks and the other grand tours are not so globally important to teams and sponsors. It is why Armstrong and Sky targeted the TdF. Its also a fact that the Tour is raced harder than the other grand tours. So a TdF can be more physically and mentally demanding even if the parcours isn't as savage. As purists we may not like it as the Vuelta and Giro are wonderful races but they simply don't resonate with the non cycling public outside of Italy and Spain. Its also why the TdF is in the middle of the European summer and those races are pushed aside.

The above post is my point. Nonsense that the TDF is the only thing that matters and that the giro and vuelta are mere minor races

 

[houtdffan]

I bet jumbo's plan is to vingegaard attack on joux plane and then on la loze. La loze is a monstruous climb, it can decide the tour.

The combo cote amerands/la bettex and the combo petit ballon/platzerwasel suits very well pogacar.

The version of La Loze they are doing this year is mostly an extension of Couchervel. It is not the same climb as 3 years ago

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What impressed me most is he didn't just have the legs he really asserted himself on the race. Accepted Landa did less work and just did it himself. Haven't really seen him do that before.

I have found him a negative, sometimes cowardly rider in the past, but during last year's Tour, he surprised me in a good way. Let's hope his new found status motivates him to start riding in a more proactive way from now on.

 

[Nick2413]

The above post is my point. Nonsense that the TDF is the only thing that matters and that the giro and vuelta are mere minor races

Agreed in concept, but if all GTs were treated equally it would be impossible to truly concentrate the peak talent around any one of them, effectively going back to square one. Maybe the optimal scenario would be having each of the 3 GTs rotate as the “World Championships” of stage racing or some incentives to get the top riders at the same one, but change by year.

 

[Nick2413]

I have found him a negative, sometimes cowardly rider in the past, but during last year's Tour, he surprised me in a good way. Let's hope his new found status motivates him to start riding in a more proactive way from now on.

If he gets on the back foot he may be forced to ride more proactively, maybe he’s been experimenting.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If he gets on the back foot he may be forced to ride more proactively, maybe he’s been experimenting.

It's probably more related to his self confidence. Or at least it looks like that to me.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I bet jumbo's plan is to vingegaard attack on joux plane and then on la loze. La loze is a monstruous climb, it can decide the tour.

The combo cote amerands/la bettex and the combo petit ballon/platzerwasel suits very well pogacar.

The best plan for Pogacar in this Tour may be to stick to Vinge's wheel and look for gains when an occasion arises (i.e. near finishes where he's faster, or shorter climbs or when he sees the Dane's struggle) instead of wasting more energy earlier and having Vinge following him and ready to counter-attack. Obviously it's not Pogacar's style and he will try attacking (esp. if there's a cold day) but after last year he must have realized that Vinge can hurt him badly in the mountains so riding conservatively more on Vinge's wheel may help to save some energy for most important moments of the race.

BTW it's early April and victories stats are like that:
Pogacar 10
Roglic 7
Vinge 6 (likely to add more this week)
What numbers!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The best plan for Pogacar in this Tour may be to stick to Vinge's wheel and look for gains when an occasion arises (i.e. near finishes where he's faster, or shorter climbs or when he sees the Dane's struggle) instead of wasting more energy earlier and having Vinge following him and ready to counter-attack.

You mean he should out-Roglic Jumbo?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

You mean he should out-Roglic Jumbo?

I know it's not his style and maybe it won't happen but I believe he can win the Tour by a small margin without even dropping Vinge in the mountains (unless a cold day happens, then he'll drop them all). That's why I think Roglic's presence could be important for JV (if he's in form after the Giro ofc) - then Pog will not be able to focus only on one man.

 

[Bolder]

I have found him a negative, sometimes cowardly rider in the past, but during last year's Tour, he surprised me in a good way. Let's hope his new found status motivates him to start riding in a more proactive way from now on.

I think it was more that he didn’t really know his limits rather than cowardice.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I think it was more that he didn’t really know his limits rather than cowardice.

It's probably more related to his self confidence. Or at least it looks like that to me.

 

[theyoungest]

I have found him a negative, sometimes cowardly rider in the past, but during last year's Tour, he surprised me in a good way. Let's hope his new found status motivates him to start riding in a more proactive way from now on.

He's only been riding as a team leader for like 2 years or so. Which 'past' are you talking about?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He's only been riding as a team leader for like 2 years or so. Which 'past' are you talking about?

Strange that you manage to bold one part of a sentence, without reading the other part of the sentence.

 

[theyoungest]

Strange that you manage to bold one part of a sentence, without reading the other part of the sentence.

That doesn't negate my question at all. Before last year's Tour, which races did he really do where you thought: wow, what a negative, cowardly rider?

 

[SafeBet]

What impressed me most is he didn't just have the legs he really asserted himself on the race. Accepted Landa did less work and just did it himself. Haven't really seen him do that before.

Yeah I agree with this. I saw a glimpse of that in Paris - Nice when he attacked Pogacar despite (likely) knowing he wasn't gonna win.
Yesterday's performance was a confirmation of this new "mentality".

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That doesn't negate my question at all. Before last year's Tour, which races did he really do where you thought: wow, what a negative, cowardly rider?

Yes it does negate your question. You said he was only a leader for the past two years and asked what past i was talking about, while it was clear from my post that i felt he changed since the Tour.

And judging by Red Rick's post, and now Safebet, and numerous posts by Toby in the past as well, it doesn't seem like i am the only one who thinks he has changed for the better. Remarkable that you get all defensive all of a sudden. I wonder why. I don't.

 

[theyoungest]

Yes it does negate your question. You said he was only a leader for the past two years and asked what past i was talking about, while it was clear from my post that i felt he changed since the Tour.

But for him to have built up this reputation in your head (and a few other posters' heads, apparently) is pretty remarkable, given how short his career at the top has been so far. That's why I ask which past you're talking about, which you don't really seem to know either.

 

[Red Rick]

But for him to have built up this reputation in your head (and a few other posters' heads, apparently) is pretty remarkable, given how short his career at the top has been so far. That's why I ask which past you're talking about, which you don't really seem to know either.

1. His attack on Granon was super late considering all that happened before. He was lucky Pogacar collapsed otherwise he would have won the bare minimum or not even attacked. Especially saying he almost didn't attack created this narrative in my opinion.
2. His Ventoux attack in 2021 was also very late on Ventoux, although arguably he was protecting Van Aert a bit as well.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

But for him to have built up this reputation in your head (and a few other posters' heads, apparently) is pretty remarkable, given how short his career at the top has been so far. That's why I ask which past you're talking about, which you don't really seem to know either.

Yes, it's conveniently all in people who have a different opinion, their heads. Like you kind of pointed out, his career at the top has been short, that also means he wasn't a rider to pay special attention to a lot of the time. But i do remember one instance, in Itzulia last year, where he was in the break with Alaphilippe and some others, while Roglic and Evenepoel (the two pre-race favorites) were in the peloton. Him refusing to contribute made sure the break was short lived. In retrospect, had he cooperated and the break would have stayed clear (with some of the biggest teams not chasing since they had someone in the break), he could have won Itzulia or at least ended on the podium.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Vingegaard is not a likeable rider. He is too shy and doesn't like to be on the spotlight. For a Tour de France winner, this is not good because people want to be near and know about him and he just seems to petrified with fans approaching him.

 

[RedheadDane]

Vingegaard is not a likeable rider. He is too shy and doesn't like to be on the spotlight. For a Tour de France winner, this is not good because people want to be near and know about him and he just seems to petrified with fans approaching him.

He's not likeable because he's shy?
Who cares what "people" want? Just because he's the TdF winner, doesn't mean he should be available to everyone. Luckily the people in Glyngøre understands that; from what I understand, he can go grocery shopping without being bothered.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He's not likeable because he's shy?
Who cares what "people" want? Just because he's the TdF winner, doesn't mean he should be available to everyone. Luckily the people in Glyngøre understands that; from what I understand, he can go grocery shopping without being bothered.

I agree with you. I'm a little bit like Vingegaard and I would probably behave like him If I was a Tour de France winner. Don't get me wrong but I feel people wants the Tour de France winner to be like a Sagan, Pogacar or Lance who are more open and likeable to the fans. Pogacar is my favourite rider because he looks like the 70's Netherlands in football, always attacking and a pure joy to watch. I really think Vingegaard should receive more credit for the way he beat Pogi and this Tour can be really the race where he turns in a people's champion

 

[RedheadDane]

Don't get me wrong but I feel people wants the Tour de France winner to be like a Sagan, Pogacar or Lance who are more open and likeable to the fans.

Doesn't matter what the fans want.
Also, Lance "likeable"?

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

I think in stage races with Pogacar at the start (or any sort of race, really) Roglic will have a really hard time winning. Pogi is just better at pretty much everything. And then there's the added problem of Vingegaard, plus Rogla's not getting any younger.

The 2021 Vuelta still gives me some hope. Back then, Primoz was as strong as Vingegaard was in the 2022 TdF.

If Primoz can regain this shape, and/or even improve, he could win the TdF.

Jonas is an absolute teamplayer. If Primoz will line up in mentioned shape, Jonas would support him.

The greatest thing would be a TdF GC battle between Jonas+Primoz and Pogi+Ayuso.

Or, even better: battle of the titans, like this:

Jonas+Primoz
Pogi+Ayuso
Remco
Bernal+Thomas
Froomey.

That would be epic…