Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

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Boehmand

Boehmand

Mar 5, 2023
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theyoungest said:
No, that's not true. Coppi e Bartali 2021 was where they deliberately gave him the leadership role, bascially told him 'you have to win this race' because he had difficulty dealing with pressure. After that of course in the Tour 2021 he became the leader, he wasn't initially but for most of the race he was.
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I thought we were talking significant (World Tour) races... you are talking about a race where Honore got 2nd and Schultz 3rd.
 
Boehmand

Boehmand

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Rackham said:
I think Vingegaard now edges Pogacar in a long ITT & I also think the advantage a time trial gives both riders over the rest of the field (basically throwing climbers like Gaudu & Mas way behind) allows for the likes of Pog & Vinge to focus only on each other whilst ignoring the rest.
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I think it depends when in the race the TT is.

The later it is the more it tips towards Vingegaard, but in a week 1 TT I would always put my money on Pogacar.
 
B

Bolder

Jun 25, 2015
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Funny this talk about likability. I find Vingo's story appealing, and his progression has been nearly as linear as Pog's was a few years ago, even if he's a few years older. I sometimes can't shake the feeling that the Tour win was a fluke, and it seems to me that Vingegaard might feel that way, too. I did notice yesterday that he really couldn't help from looking back.

He's sort of a quirky, shy guy, although I've tried to remind myself that how riders present themselves to an international audience is probably not the same way they are in their home country. I think Roglic fits into that category somehow.
 
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Open Horizon

Feb 22, 2013
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Pogacar wasted A LOT of unnecessary energy in the previous Tour, going all out during the first ten days again and again for minuscule time gains. Not just on every punchy climb but also on the cobbled stage, where he and Stuyven killed themselves for a 10 sec gain while Vingegaard was following wheels all day. I'm certain that he'll try to restrain himself come July so to be stronger on the long MTF stages and in the third week.
 
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Open Horizon

Feb 22, 2013
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Bolder said:
He's sort of a quirky, shy guy, although I've tried to remind myself that how riders present themselves to an international audience is probably not the same way they are in their home country. I think Roglic fits into that category somehow.
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Doubt it. Professional cyclists are typically (on average) more introverted, less social, and often bigger weirdo's than say footballers.

There's a reason why many of them embraced this activity - long hours of lonely suffering - in the first place. And it wasn't they're social butterflies.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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As for the Tour route, Vingegaard will erupt on Puy de Dôme. He should beat Pogi there, and not just in a sprint.

PuyDeDomeNE.gif
 
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Open Horizon

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Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

Jul 7, 2013
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Netserk said:
As for the Tour route, Vingegaard will erupt on Puy de Dôme. He should beat Pogi there, and not just in a sprint.

PuyDeDomeNE.gif
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Great to see the legend back, one of the big3 of Tour MTFs. I don't think it will happen though. I think they will come together and Pog will win. The stage is not super-hard to give Vinge any edge and Pog can bring monstrous w/kg for the last few km. IMO they won't be separated for most mountain stages.
 
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Rackham

Rackham

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Krzysztof_O said:
Great to see the legend back, one of the big3 of Tour MTFs. I don't think it will happen though. I think they will come together and Pog will win. The stage is not super-hard to give Vinge any edge and Pog can bring monstrous w/kg for the last few km. IMO they won't be separated for most mountain stages.
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IMO Pogacar is going to win the TdF pretty convincingly. People can quote me on this later but based on the route & Pog's motivation (& the fact UAE is stronger now), the writing is on the wall. Vingegaard is going to struggle in mano-a-mano duels & he'll mistime his attacks, just as he did in Paris-Nice.

Afterwards all the recriminations will be about Jumbo & people will question whether splitting the best riders (Rog & Vinge) between Giro & TdF objectives was a good idea etc. etc. yada yada yada i.e. because last year they went with the strongest team possible to the TdF.

Frankly, I think Pogacar is vastly underestimated & Vingegaard isn't going to drop him on any climb in the 2023 TdF.
 
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Cookster15

Cookster15

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Boehmand said:
The 3 main areas where Vingegaard is better than Pogacar are:

  • Week 3, because he recovers better than any other top stage race rider.
  • Above 2000 meters, because he loses less power than anyone else in thin air.
  • Extreme heat, because that is Pogacar's Achilles heel.
If any of those 3 factors are present, Vingegaard has the upper hand, if not Pogacar is the superior rider.

It has to be said on the recovery part though, that we will probably see Pogacar be a lot more focused on conservation at this years Tour, and as he has never really done that before, we are yet to learn what that means to the balance of power in the last week of the race.
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I don't agree on week 3 (recovery). How do you explain stage 20 of the 2020 Tdf to La Planche des Belles Filles ?

Stage 17 to Courchevel looks to be Pog's greatest hurdle. As someone reminded yesterday, Loze is a monster climb and I think at 2300 meters altitude he has question marks. Pog suffered on the same mountain in 2020. Puy de Dôme is steep but isn't long enough or high enough to blunt Pog.
 
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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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Rackham said:
IMO Pogacar is going to win the TdF pretty convincingly. People can quote me on this later but based on the route & Pog's motivation (& the fact UAE is stronger now), the writing is on the wall. Vingegaard is going to struggle in mano-a-mano duels & he'll mistime his attacks, just as he did in Paris-Nice.

Afterwards all the recriminations will be about Jumbo & people will question whether splitting the best riders (Rog & Vinge) between Giro & TdF objectives was a good idea etc. etc. yada yada yada i.e. because last year they went with the strongest team possible to the TdF.

Frankly, I think Pogacar is vastly underestimated & Vingegaard isn't going to drop him on any climb in the 2023 TdF.
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Lol, Pogacar is underestimated... if anything it's Vingegaard who's underestimated, people expecting things to go back to 'normal' this year, i.e. a Pogi win. That could very well be, but the Vingegaard we saw in Paris-Nice clearly isn't the one we're going to see in the Tour.
 
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theyoungest

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Red Rick said:
IMO we're way too keen on taking cues from races this spring and what they mean for July, just like we're too keen to predict too much based on more intangible factors.
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What does surprise me about this spring is not so much Pogi's form, but the fact that he's racing so much... I thought UAE were going to keep him a bit fresher for the Tour this year, evidently that's not the case. Advantage Vingegaard in that sense.
 
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Cookster15

Cookster15

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RedheadDane said:
Pogacar beating Roglic hardly means that Vingegaard doesn't have better recovery.
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Can you provide examples where Vingegaard had better recovery? If you can't find an example outside of the 2022 TdF, then my point stands. 2020 TdF tells me Pog's recovery is unrivaled. And can I remind you guys that few knew who Vingegaard was before he was elevated for the 2021 TdF after Roglic was injured.

This post by Open Horizon echoes what I say happened last year:

Page 52 - Teams & Riders - Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

Page 52 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
forum.cyclingnews.com forum.cyclingnews.com
 
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Cookster15

Cookster15

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theyoungest said:
Lol, Pogacar is underestimated... if anything it's Vingegaard who's underestimated, people expecting things to go back to 'normal' this year, i.e. a Pogi win. That could very well be, but the Vingegaard we saw in Paris-Nice clearly isn't the one we're going to see in the Tour.
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He saying the fact we still have people who seem to have forgotton the 2020 and 2021 Tdfs or the fact Pogi is younger than Vingegaard or that 2022 wasn't the stars aligning for Vingegaard and very unlikely to be repeated.
 
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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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Cookster15 said:
He saying the fact we still have people who seem to have forgotton the 2020 and 2021 Tdfs or the fact Pogi is younger than Vingegaard or that 2022 wasn't the stars aligning for Vingegaard and very unlikely to be repeated.
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You could argue equally that the Tour 2021 was the stars aligning for Pogi... when Vingegaard found himself in the position of contender the race was already basically over. The fact that Pogi is younger isn't relevant, he's had a longer career as a cyclist than Vingo has.
 
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