Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Peter von]

Turns out he does! (not meant as a knock on you, I didn't expect it either)
I gotta say, I'm beginning to like this 2023 Vingegaard.

I could pretend that I liked that post because of you making sense, but to be honest, I liked it mostly because of your name.

lol, I got to feel smug and clever for a few hours at least .

I was really amazed that he attacked like that. But clearly it was the clever move to make for him as he gapped Pogi and limited the loss to last years Giro winner to a very managable margin.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Chapeau!

He went out with a big plan, which he didn't have to, and delivered the goods. Sadly for him he wasn't the strongest rider, but he's made the race two days in a row.

 

[Valv.Piti]

A great attack and team setup today, everything went right after the plan, but Pogacar was simply just stronger than yesterday. Perfectly executed as well and with great reason, they wanted to end Pogacar today.

Chapeau! Great stuff and it should be very hard for people like me to criticize him for being too cautious and what not anymore. Great!

 

[Blobs]

He may have been a bit overconfident after yesterday, and overcooked it a bit in the end. Similar to Pogacar on stage Granon stage last year, but not the same damage taken.

But chapeau for trying! Bold stuff

 

[theyoungest]

Jumbo and Vingegaard really tried, but Pogacar had the legs and he played it really smart. We do have a race, although I do feel that Vingegaard didn't have his best day ever on a day that called for Granon legs.

 

[Andy schleck]

He made a mistake on cambasque. It wasn't the perfect climb for him, and he was wearint out with no reason. He had a gap of 2 min for hindley and 52 s to pogacar. He should had just follow pogacar's wheel.

 

[Extinction]

He made a mistake on cambasque. It wasn't the perfect climb for him, and he was wearint out with no reason. He had a gap of 2 min for hindley and 52 s to pogacar. He should had just follow pogacar's wheel.

Absolutely. Especially when Kwiat got back on, who was already struggling, he should have known he wasn't able today to set a hard enough pace and so should have made Pog work. Instead he only played Pog's last man domestique.

 

[Gigs_98]

Yeah I think you could see the problem coming from miles away. If Vingegaard wouldn't be able to drop Pog on Cautarets then he was always going to be in a really tricky position. Pulling Pogacar could obviously backfire (as it did) but if you don't pull him you have basically done all this work for absolutely nothing. Jumbo should have realized that 2nd option is still better than exposing themselves to Pogacar but they didn't.

 

[Andy schleck]

Absolutely. Especially when Kwat got back on, who was already struggling, he should have known he wasn't able today to set a hard enough pace and so should have made Pog work. Instead he only played Pog's last man domestique.

Besides that, he should had go to pogacar's wheel! He wasn't well setted up to respond, to pogacar's attack.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The difference between today and Granon was WVA. If WVA wasn't there and still Vingegaard was on the attack, he would lose 2 minutes for sure.

 

[Netserk]

Better hope he feels better on Sunday. It’d be a shame if today would dissuade Jumbo from trying again then.

 

[Andy schleck]

The difference between today and Granon was WVA. If WVA wasn't there and still Vingegaard was on the attack, he would lose 2 minutes for sure.

What are you talking about?! Vingegaard attacked on cambasque. Pogacar didn't attack on granon. It was just 25 s, calm down. If vingegaard just followed pogacar's wheel on cambasque, he wouldn't lose time.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah I think you could see the problem coming from miles away. If Vingegaard wouldn't be able to drop Pog on Cautarets then he was always going to be in a really tricky position. Pulling Pogacar could obviously backfire (as it did) but if you don't pull him you have basically done all this work for absolutely nothing. Jumbo should have realized that 2nd option is still better than exposing themselves to Pogacar but they didn't.

The one questino I have is how hard was he really pulling and I think he was actually pulling pretty hard judging by the gap to the main peloton?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The one questino I have is how hard was he really pulling and I think he was actually pulling pretty hard judging by the gap to the main peloton?

When Vingegaard wasn't able to instantly drop Kwiatkowski while Pogacar looked comfortable I realized he wasn't that strong anymore and it wasn't that hard tempo. I think Pog time up Cauterets was comparable to the best among humans.

 

[Red Rick]

When Vingegaard wasn't able to instantly drop Kwiatkowski while Pogacar looked comfortable I realized he wasn't that strong anymore. I think Pog time up Cauterets was comparable to the best among humans.

Why Pog didn't counter immediately I have no idea.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Why Pog didn't counter immediately I have no idea.

Maybe he was still a bit scared after yesterday but yeah, he could've done it earlier.

 

[Extinction]

Besides that, he should had go to pogacar's wheel! He wasn't well setted up to respond, to pogacar's attack.

He evidently wasn't lucid and lacked the creativity to change the plan. It's normal though, as he had to finish the job. It's only that he didn't have the same legs today (Kwiat coming back is proof), while Pog's were better.
It's a shame for him, because, in reality, he could have just ridden defensively, since it was Pog who had to attack. Doubtless Jumbo will have learned the lesson, so he's not gonna burn matches henceforth and make Pog have to work to drop him. It should be a massive battle.

 

[Rackham]

Maybe he was still a bit scared after yesterday but yeah, he could've done it earlier.

Vingegaard had that fear factor. I mean there's no guarantee he's not just going pianissimo at that point on the early slopes of Cauterets & he'll unleash the watts again. Pog was evidently careful about a possible counter. You can see the point where Pog started to look around & think "hmm, I think there's something to be done here".

Vinge has now lost that psychological advantage he had (& had even before the Tour).

 

[RedheadDane]

Time to actually eat some rice and chicken, spend the next to days recharging, and do battle again Sunday.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The way Pogačar was riding at the end, he probably would have gapped Vingegaard even if there had been no racing on Tourmalet. He probably wouldn't have gained as much as he did (the bonus seconds wouldn't have been play either), but Vingegaard managed to get rid of Hindley, so it wasn't all bad.

Had the result been different if JV had ridden full gas from the bottom of Tourmalet?
Who knows.

I guess yesterday's attack might have come as more of a surprise to UAE, and Pogačar possibly wasn't as alert during the stage as he was today. We'll see how they reaction to the new race situation will be on Puy de Dôme.

 

[meat puppet]

Hmm, being alert or not is a matter of a couple seconds on a climb. Not having the legs tallies up to more.

JV was better yesterday, TP today. Fairly easy imo.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Hmm, being alert or not is a matter of a couple seconds on a climb. Not having the legs tallies up to more.

JV was better yesterday, TP today. Fairly easy imo.

I also meant he might not have fuelled up to an all out attack or have prepared mentally ahead of the stage, but today he was definitely up to the task.

 

[Andy schleck]

He evidently wasn't lucid and lacked the creativity to change the plan. It's normal though, as he had to finish the job. It's only that he didn't have the same legs today (Kwiat coming back is proof), while Pog's were better.
It's a shame for him, because, in reality, he could have just ridden defensively, since it was Pog who had to attack. Doubtless Jumbo will have learned the lesson, so he's not gonna burn matches henceforth and make Pog have to work to drop him. It should be a massive battle.

Overall pogacar didn't have better legs today than Vingegaard, it was just 24 s. Simply, pogacar was much smarter sucking Vingegaard's wheel, and vingegaard was very naive. He should had just follow pogacar's wheel on cambasque.

P.s- I'm not criticizing pogacar's strategy. It's legitimate, even if it was vingegaard doing the same, he would get a lot of hate.

I think they learned the lesson. Now vingegaard will follow pogacar's wheel and ride smart.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Vinge has now lost that psychological advantage he had (& had even before the Tour).

Has he, though? First 2 days in the mountains and Vingo has gone from 11 sec. down to 25 sec. up. I'd say they both wake up tomorrow thinking things are going well. If anything Vingo was a little over confident today, he spent too much time trying to ride Pogi off his wheel. Pogi still has to make up time so he has to be the one to attack now.

 

[Rackham]

Has he, though? First 2 days in the mountains and Vingo has gone from 11 sec. down to 25 sec. up. I'd say they both wake up tomorrow thinking things are going well. If anything Vingo was a little over confident today, he spent too much time trying to ride Pogi off his wheel. Pogi still has to make up time so he has to be the one to attack now.

Pog's deficit is nothing a few sprints & good ITT cannot overcome.

Vingegaard & Jumbo will now also be reticent to launch big manoeuvres which can unsettle Pog from afar. Vingegaard took yellow with a 3 minute lead last year. Today, it's 25 seconds after a similar grand scale offensive as Granon backfired at the end.

It's not a particularly comfortable position for Vingegaard & Jumbo, even more so considering the gaps versus the rest of the field are so huge, I don't see how they can tactically get rid of the jersey now, even for a few days. It's all in from here on.