Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Krzysztof_O]

Everybody is curious how Vinge will perform at the Vuelta. Most think that he must decline following his super peak in July. Maybe he will fade later in the race? (like Froomey in 2012). Likely his level will be worse that at the Tour but maybe still good enough to win? Its worth noting that Vinge is probably the strongest GT racer in this century and past comparisons may not be adequate. He will write his own story.

 

[Netserk]

NU TAGER DU FARTEN AF MIN VEN, NU ER JEG LIGEGLAD

Lmao I Love this got damn clip

Rolf is awesome. Truly, deeply passionate.

 

[Extinction]

Just

6.7 W/kg? Vinge would laugh at those junior numbers.

Don't go above 7, for convenience sake.

 

[Cookster15]

In literally every other race Vingo did he was by far the strongest rider. I don't know how you can conclude that he only aims for the Tour. It's just not true. So let's stick to the facts.

My conclusion is shared by most objective observers. Of course he only aims for the Tour. If its facts you need, then it would help non Vinge fans if you listed some examples? Until you do so, the bold is your unsubstantiated opinion.

I mentioned the Dauphine already, but that doesn't count as it was prep for the TdF. Which other races has Vinge seriously targeted that weren't prep for the Tour? His entire season is structured around the TdF, I don't think that requires any explanation. It will be refreshing if Vingegaard races the Giro or Vuelta.

 

[Cassirer]

My conclusion is shared by most objective observers. Of course he only aims for the Tour. If its facts you need, then it would help non Vinge fans if you listed some examples? Until you do so, the bold is your unsubstantiated opinion.

I mentioned the Dauphine already, but that doesn't count as it was prep for the TdF. Which other races has Vinge seriously targeted that weren't prep for the Tour? His entire season is structured around the TdF, I don't think that requires any explanation. It will be refreshing if Vingegaard races the Giro or Vuelta.

With that reasoning everything but cobbled classics can be seen as tour prep (as long as the tour doesn't include a cobbled stage).

 

[theyoungest]

My conclusion is shared by most objective observers. Of course he only aims for the Tour. If its facts you need, then it would help non Vinge fans if you listed some examples? Until you do so, the bold is your unsubstantiated opinion.

I mentioned the Dauphine already, but that doesn't count as it was prep for the TdF. Which other races has Vinge seriously targeted that weren't prep for the Tour? His entire season is structured around the TdF, I don't think that requires any explanation. It will be refreshing if Vingegaard races the Giro or Vuelta.

I think you make the mistake that just because Vingegaard only does stage races, and not classics, that means that he's only interested in the Tour. Basically for Pogi fans (and journalists, because most of them are Pogi fans as well) his program of both classics and Tour is the only one that really counts as an all year program.

Vingegaard isn't a classics rider. That doesn't mean the Tour is all he cares about.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I think a better way of saying it is he only focuses to be 100% for the Tour, while the other races he does care to win but if he doesn’t win them it isn’t a big deal as long as he wins the Tour.

 

[Extinction]

I think you make the mistake that just because Vingegaard only does stage races, and not classics, that means that he's only interested in the Tour. Basically for Pogi fans (and journalists, because most of them are Pogi fans as well) his program of both classics and Tour is the only one that really counts as an all year program.

Vingegaard isn't a classics rider. That doesn't mean the Tour is all he cares about.

To the bolded, I don't think Vingo can't be good in classics (Liege and Lombardia, but, why not, MSR too - if he attacks and descends off the Poggio the way he did in this year's Tour TT...), it's just that Jumbo-Visma knows that another route for the Tour or GTs is optimal. Apart from Liege in an odd year, by the way, when has Rog done classics? They won't waste time, because their science has it that it's a waste of time. Now is this good for the tradition of the sport? No, but that doesn't mean Vingo can't do well in classics, but only that he's never tried.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I still don't have a clue why he gets bashed for not participating in the classics. You need to look at his characteristics and his previous results in the races, and the obvious conclusion is he has minimal chances of actually winning. He won't do them because of the history of the sport and what not and all that other jazz and non-sense.

Vingegaard is a specialist, Remco and Pogacar has a much broader palette of weapons available. Thats how it is and I couldn't give a rats ass about the history, you ride the races that makes sense to you based on your profile and this season is the perfect example of just that - sticking to what he's actually good at, and when you plan like this, chances are you'll end up doing double GTs more often than not. Pogacar isn't doing that because he prioritizes differently, and thank god, because he's a much different rider and races what makes the most sense for a rider of his characteristics.

This ain't rocketscience lads. Its pretty god damn simple if you ask me. Pog and Jonas has ridden, more or less, exactly the kind of schedule I would have laid out for them before 2023 and god knows im not some kind of genius or anything like that.

 

[Valv.Piti]

And I say this despite liking Pogacar way more, and in general absolutely loving the classics (especially that one race he happened to win this year), but it just doesn't make sense. Give it up. I don't wanna watch Froome and Quintana doing San Remo, Flanders, Liege and what have you simply because my eyes would be bleeding. These guys are as specialized as Vingegaard and rightfully so decided to not give a flying *** about the classics and targetting 1 week stage races and double GTs during almost every prime season.

Which is exactly what Vingegaard is doing. Would you rather watch him doing *** all in the Ardennes and go MIA after Tour de France just to show up to some god forsaken race in Croatia in Oktober and get absolutely spanked once again by Tadej in Como? Whats the over/under this time, 3 mintues?

 

[Red Rick]

NU TAGER DU FARTEN AF MIN VEN, NU ER JEG LIGEGLAD

Lmao I Love this got damn clip

What moment in the race is that?

 

[Pleney]

He was afsked if he would go for the record 5 and said he wouldnt mind, the "i want to win 6" was a twitter post by a sagan fan profile?

 

[Netserk]

What moment in the race is that?

Final part of stage 20 in 2022.

 

[Panda Claws]

Jonas Vingegaard needs to do what he thinks is best for him but he would gain a fan if he left it at 2.

 

[Nick2413]

I still don't have a clue why he gets bashed for not participating in the classics. You need to look at his characteristics and his previous results in the races, and the obvious conclusion is he has minimal chances of actually winning. He won't do them because of the history of the sport and what not and all that other jazz and non-sense.

Vingegaard is a specialist, Remco and Pogacar has a much broader palette of weapons available. Thats how it is and I couldn't give a rats ass about the history, you ride the races that makes sense to you based on your profile and this season is the perfect example of just that - sticking to what he's actually good at, and when you plan like this, chances are you'll end up doing double GTs more often than not. Pogacar isn't doing that because he prioritizes differently, and thank god, because he's a much different rider and races what makes the most sense for a rider of his characteristics.

This ain't rocketscience lads. Its pretty god damn simple if you ask me. Pog and Jonas has ridden, more or less, exactly the kind of schedule I would have laid out for them before 2023 and god knows im not some kind of genius or anything like that.

The way Vingegaard performed on Marie Blanque and Itzulia final stage this year gives a lot of promise for Lombardia if he were to show up with intention. He seems to have improved at shorter climbs.

 

[Extinction]

And I say this despite liking Pogacar way more, and in general absolutely loving the classics (especially that one race he happened to win this year), but it just doesn't make sense. Give it up. I don't wanna watch Froome and Quintana doing San Remo, Flanders, Liege and what have you simply because my eyes would be bleeding. These guys are as specialized as Vingegaard and rightfully so decided to not give a flying *** about the classics and targetting 1 week stage races and double GTs during almost every prime season.

Which is exactly what Vingegaard is doing. Would you rather watch him doing *** all in the Ardennes and go MIA after Tour de France just to show up to some god forsaken race in Croatia in Oktober and get absolutely spanked once again by Tadej in Como? Whats the over/under this time, 3 mintues?

Frankly, I think you are oversimplifying and unnecessarily putting a cap on what Vingegaard may be capabable of doing, under the right circumstances, which isn't to say at Jumbo-Visma such circumstances will ever present themselves. However, Jonas is no Froome, who was engineered late, or Quintana, who simply wasn't made for certain situations. The real issue is they have found a formula that works too well to risk adding a monument to his schedule, but I don't find it unbelievable that Vingegaard could be in the mix deep into Liege, for example.

 

[Bolder]

I for one think he could crush LBL and Lombardia, if they were a focus. His bike handling skills are as good as anyone's, if not better, and if he gets a gap on Roche aux Faucons, for example, he's just going to ITT away. The real question would be whether his form is as dominant in a one-day race as it is after six hard mountain stages. I honestly don't know, because he'd have to tweak his training for those kinds of peaks.

 

[tobydawq]

I for one think he could crush LBL and Lombardia, if they were a focus. His bike handling skills are as good as anyone's, if not better, and if he gets a gap on Roche aux Faucons, for example, he's just going to ITT away. The real question would be whether his form is as dominant in a one-day race as it is after six hard mountain stages. I honestly don't know, because he'd have to tweak his training for those kinds of peaks.

He looked pretty convincing on stage 1 of the Tour on similar climbs.

 

[Gigs_98]

I do think Vingegaard would do well in LBL and Lombardia. He wouldn't be my favorite but I'm sure he'd so well.

But it's nothing new gc riders don't want to put their focus on races like that when their main goal remains gc racing. "He'd do well in Lombardia" is something you can literally say about any gc rider. That said, I'd be surprised if we don't see him trying those races at some point. He just won't focus his season around them.

 

[TrekCyclist]

In the past 20 years, very few TDF winners / podium winners targeted the spring classics. No Ullrich, Armstrong, Contador, Schleck, Nibali, Froome. Although some of them could have in theory, given their abilities. Vingegaard - probably these races dont really suit him (too light).
Big exception is Liege (and San Sebastian), where TDF contenders regularely got good results. I would expect, Vingegaard could do well there, if he wanted.
But if it comes to spring classics / monuments, for me at this moment the best are MVDP, Pogacar, WVA, Asgren, Evenepoel (in this order).

 

[Samu Cuenca]

In the past 20 years, very few TDF winners / podium winners targeted the spring classics. No Ullrich, Armstrong, Contador, Schleck, Nibali, Froome. Although some of them could have in theory, given their abilities. Vingegaard - probably these races dont really suit him (too light).
Big exception is Liege (and San Sebastian), where TDF contenders regularely got good results. I would expect, Vingegaard could do well there, if he wanted.
But if it comes to spring classics / monuments, for me at this moment the best are MVDP, Pogacar, WVA, Asgren, Evenepoel (in this order).

If you look at recent results, then Pedersen should be a part of that top 5 instead of Asgreen.

 

[Peter von]

Vingegaard could make assaults on LBL and Lombardia in future seasons, I think he is toying with the idea.
Before this season he didn't have a lot of wins outside the Tour de France, so makes perfect sense to me that they focused on stage racing which will always be his best option for racking up some wins. Maybe after this season Vingegaard has added some non-TdF wins to his palmares and is more willing to skip a one-week race to try LBL even with the risk that he barely finishes in top 10.

I also think Jumbo-Visma would like JV to take part in LBL because atm Benoot is their best rider going to that race. Vingegaard clearly have some qualities that should also be transferable to LBL/Lombardia, even if he will never be the favorite to win them.

Vingegaard isn't a natural classics rider either, 8th in San Sebastian and 14th in Lombardia are his best results. So far his issue isn't even that Rogla or Pogi beats him in the sprint, it's that he doesn't even get to that sprint finish.

 

[Red Rick]

I do think Vingegaard would do well in LBL and Lombardia. He wouldn't be my favorite but I'm sure he'd so well.

But it's nothing new gc riders don't want to put their focus on races like that when their main goal remains gc racing. "He'd do well in Lombardia" is something you can literally say about any gc rider. That said, I'd be surprised if we don't see him trying those races at some point. He just won't focus his season around them.

A rider with Vingegaards traits could win Liege in the previous eras. The problem is that Pogacar and Evenepoel fully counter his qualities, unless we believe he can just drop everyone on RaF and stay away, which seems like a big stretch.

I don't believe at all that "he can't do one day races" arguments that don't provide any explanations as to why he'd suck at them full stop, nor would it explain why he can look better than Pogacar on a 4 minute climb on stage 1 of the TdF. And this goes for a lot of GC riders who "can't race 1 days" while showing decent results in punchy stages in stage races.

 

[Gigs_98]

A rider with Vingegaards traits could win Liege in the previous eras. The problem is that Pogacar and Evenepoel fully counter his qualities, unless we believe he can just drop everyone on RaF and stay away, which seems like a big stretch.

I don't believe at all that "he can't do one day races" arguments that don't provide any explanations as to why he'd suck at them full stop, nor would it explain why he can look better than Pogacar on a 4 minute climb on stage 1 of the TdF. And this goes for a lot of GC riders who "can't race 1 days" while showing decent results in punchy stages in stage races.

Roglic won LBL in a four man sprint in which he was the third or fourth best sprinter. If you are strong enough to still be there at the end there is always at least a tiny chance to win it.

 

[Red Rick]

Roglic won LBL in a four man sprint in which he was the third or fourth best sprinter. If you are strong enough to still be there at the end there is always at least a tiny chance to win it.

Not a scenario I'd base my scheduling decisions on tbh. It's probably a race where Roglic and Vingegaard both racing would enhance each others chances.

IMO the real opportunity cost is moving the spring peak back a few weeks to add the Ardennes to the schedule for limited gain for Vingegaard. If he's not that interested in those races there's little you can do.