Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[topt]

Yes they are and they did - Roglic towed Ayuso, Mas and Vlasov the last 2 K - they just weren't strong enough to bring Vingegaard back

I get all the sympathy for Kuss I like him a lot too, but Grand Tours are not a gift shop, and if he wants to win the Vuelta he has to be able to hack it when the big boys move.

Rogla attacked in the last km like I said before, do we know he couldnt follow the attack, would he even want to ? Perhaps unlike fisherman Rogla knows cycling is a team sport.

 

[topt]

Some people have just made their minds up to hate Vingegaard, and it doesn't matter what he does they will always find a way to hate on him, it comes with the territory of being the best.

First he could only compete when the race was already over (and lost) and would never be a serious GT contender.

Then he only won because Pogacar had underestimated him.

Then it became about him only performing by wheel sucking and almost never attacking.

Then he was the most boring rider in the world who couldn't win 1 week races.

Then it was because Pogacar's team wasn't good enough and didn't have Van Aert.

Then unsubstantiated "clinic rumours" became the reason.

Then he only won because Pogacar got ill.

Then he was arrogant (or a moron, take your pick) for thinking he could win 2 GT's in a row and the stomach bug "story" was just a smoke screen.

Now we have apparently gotten to him being an disloyal team rider who backstabs his teammates.

It's ridiculous

what is ridiculous is his so called 150 vo2max and the the excuse he was a nobody before cause Denmark is flat.

 

[GroupDK]

These mental confirmation bias flips, that some people can make.. fascinating..

to the less explosive guy like Jonas (who got one weak a'zz finish) - "Maybe you could easily do it, without taking time on Sebb"
and Kuss who clearly admitted it was a tad too steep for him and he didn't have it today.. Jumbo would have gotten nada if their team-captain should sit and monitor Kuss, to not risk offending anybody' - and not deliver the actual job they had planned and Jumbo Visma, Kuss, Roglic, Vingegaard etc. literally had used all day to achieve.

But it's nothing new.. we also saw it in Tour de France 2022, 2023 with all the Pogacar screamers that came out of the woodwork, when they saw that Jonas was superior and won it.
We saw it at the Tourmalet stage in this Vuelta, where Jonas took Tourmalet, and the fans behind Remco, got quite mad after he lost ½ hour on that Tourmalet stage and all the Sepp Kuss clientele. got a tad salty as how could Jumbo Visma captain Vingegaard dare to attack on this Tourmalet stage when Kuss was still in Red..

We saw it in 2023 with Van Aert and that whole national backland, where they expected the small 60kg tour captain and current Tour de France champ, should also do lead-out and risk crash etc' when Jumbo Visma had dedicated guys for that job.

It's cold at the top..Jonas needs to accept that..and the fact that some radical characters are quite passionate' when things don't go the way they want, and the aspect of the strongest rider for the win.. no bearing..
Sofar Jonas been the dude who set things in motion and made this Vuelta way more see-worthy than it would have been without him.

Like most people, I just want entertaining cycling, see some action, while trying to decipher who is the strongest rider, as these grand tours can get quite tiresome'.

Jumbo Visma feels so secure with the podium.. that they have allowed the riders to race, so we can find out who is the strongest, sofar it does look like Jonas is the strongest, with a margin, and it is down to a +3min group breakaway on stage6, which Jonas as captain - greenlit to Seb and he were allowed to go in that breakaway, the fact that Seb is at the podium now and P1 is because of those +3min, as otherwise, he would be P6...

Let them race, and hopefully, we spectators can see some fascinating cycling, that we can enjoy.
They were all allowed to attack today on the final climb, no strings on Roglic, Vingegaard or Kuss from Jumbo Visma management..

 

[Boehmand]

He towed no one. They cought him quickly and then rode in front of him. Kuss dropped himself and came back quickly too. If Rog attack itself was by team orders or not, no one knows. But we do know Jonas broke team orders and that Kuss/Rog played by the book not attacking/following Jonas.

My wish for tommorow would be Rog attack with Kuss on his wheel dropping Jonas. Rog wins stage, Kuss gains time against Jonas. Win win. Jonas can go visit Nathan first and then his daughter since he loves them so much he keeps winning stages for them instead being with them. I'm sure they would be much happier since they can't really use bike stage win for anything.

No we don't "know" Jonas broke team orders - what we know is he was on the radio and asked permission to attack and got it before attacking, so you are trying to create a false narrative.

Further it made tactical sense, because their last dom (Valter) was getting cooked, with almost 4 K left of the climb, so they had to make a move or start to see everyone else pinging off the front and have to chase people down with their captains.

You are clearly just a hater.

 

[Boehmand]

I backed him against Pog in 2022

Now he can win all he likes but he has no class whatsoever

Why?

The team was running out of doms, with too much left of the mountain to bring it to the last 3-400 meters for a "Roglic classic".

They HAD to make a move, or they would have spent the rest of the climb chasing the attacks of others with their captians, depleting their chances of taking the win.

It makes sense it was the lowest placed guy making the first move, because the assumption was UAE (with 4 guys in the group) would chase it down, and then Roglic or Kuss could counter.

Only UAE never chased it down, they just let him go - but you can hardly blame Vingegaard for that - and at that point what is he supposed to do? - Sit up and wait for the others?

 

[Boehmand]

My internet provider didn't show me that version of the finish. What carrier do you have?

Ok, I may have overstated the facts a bit, but he was on the front for a while after they caught him - he dropped back at the end though, to allow Kuss to almost make it back on.

Either way I don't think Roglic did anything wrong either, I was just pointing out the argument I responded to was illogical.

 

[Boehmand]

please, jumbo could have won this EASILY without him taking time

Now they won WITH him taking time, and this upsets you WHY?

 

[Boehmand]

what is ridiculous is his so called 150 vo2max and the the excuse he was a nobody before cause Denmark is flat.

I have no idea what you are on about.

 

[Ripper]

what is ridiculous is his so called

---

400 vo2max and the the excuse he was a nobody before cause Denmark is flat.

There, that's more accurate now!

 

[Berniece]

In my opinion Vingegaard is the best GC rider and climber in the world, nothing shocking obviously. I also feel he is extremely selfish. I don’t know if he’s like that in life in general, or only when focusing on the win.

There’s really no reason to attack today besides riding yourself in the red jersey. Maybe I’m wrong about him and he can surprise me, but I expect him to attack early and try to go for the red jersey. Wonder what his teammates think about that.

 

[Rackham]

In my opinion Vingegaard is the best GC rider and climber in the world, nothing shocking obviously. I also feel he is extremely selfish. I don’t know if he’s like that in life in general, or only when focusing on the win.

There’s really no reason to attack today besides riding yourself in the red jersey. Maybe I’m wrong about him and he can surprise me, but I expect him to attack early and try to go for the red jersey. Wonder what his teammates think about that.

This time they need to cover his attacks, even if it means dragging the other GC contenders with them (& incurring all the post-race insults from cycling influencers who believe "teamwork = make Vingegaard's dream work").

Yesterday, Vingegaard's "genius" was to forcibly turn Rog & Kuss into his domestiques because they couldn't react to his initial move. Whether they had the legs or not is immaterial (& we can guess they were probably better than Fisher-Black) because clearly when they saw Vinge go, they waited for the others to move (as per usual bike racing). But that response never came.

I don't care whether Vingegaard is the strongest, i.e. yesterday was not about the strongest, it was purely opportunism. And the sad part is he's likely to double down today on the Angliru & really prove he's stronger. But that still doesn't make what he did yesterday right.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Vingegaard isn't the type of rider who likes to give something back to his colleagues. Even in that Netflix documentary you could see him complaining when WVA won a stage because he didn't stay with him all day (as if he didn't have the rest of the team at his disposal). Despite what Sep Kuss has done for him the past years he is still going to take that red jersey from him if he can. I suppose it's not a bad mentality to have as a professional athlete.

 

[tretiak]

I heard it is Kuss' birthday tomorrow. Good reason for Vingegaard to attack him again.

So now it's one's right to win for having a damn birthday, maybe you do that in preschool, but we're talking about full-time professionals. Should all the teams think the same thing and let Sepp win because it's his birthday. Maybe they should sing for him also up the Alto de l'Angliru?

 

[svit]

No problem at all. Let the one with better legs win the race. But then stop employing cycling tactics as we've seen in the last two mountain stages where they deliberately hold Roglic and Kuss back when Vingegaard attacks.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

This time they need to cover his attacks, even if it means dragging the other GC contenders with them (& incurring all the post-race insults from cycling influencers who believe "teamwork = make Vingegaard's dream work").

Yesterday, Vingegaard's "genius" was to forcibly turn Rog & Kuss into his domestiques because they couldn't react to his initial move. Whether they had the legs or not is immaterial (& we can guess they were probably better than Fisher-Black) because clearly when they saw Vinge go, they waited for the others to move (as per usual bike racing). But that response never came.

I don't care whether Vingegaard is the strongest, i.e. yesterday was not about the strongest, it was purely opportunism. And the sad part is he's likely to double down today on the Angliru & really prove he's stronger. But that still doesn't make what he did yesterday right.

Obviously I'm not a Skeletor's fan but do you think that Primoz wasn't allowed to attack on the bottom of the climb? I think anyone of JV leaders could do it (if he wanted) but it was Jonas who intended to do it (he likely felt more confident in his form than other JV guys). He tried and succeeded.

 

[dazaau]

So now it's one's right to win for having a damn birthday, maybe you do that in preschool, but we're talking about full-time professionals. Should all the teams think the same thing and let Sepp win because it's his birthday. Maybe they should sing for him also up the Alto de l'Angliru?

You are right. You should not aim to win for yourself, only others. Thankfully Jonas only attacks his team in thought of his teammate in hospital, and not his own birthday

 

[DNP-Old]

So now it's one's right to win for having a damn birthday, maybe you do that in preschool, but we're talking about full-time professionals. Should all the teams think the same thing and let Sepp win because it's his birthday. Maybe they should sing for him also up the Alto de l'Angliru?

You are completely missing the point here.

 

[tretiak]

No problem at all. Let the one with better legs win the race. But then stop employing cycling tactics as we've seen in the last two mountain stages where they deliberately hold Roglic and Kuss back when Vingegaard attacks.

Now I don't know if you saw the race yesterday, but as I saw it could not
Primož distanced the others once he tried. Sepp barely hung on and lost a second or so at the finish. So I don't think they had gunpowder in their legs yesterday.

I think that their physical status was reported to the team during the race and that Jonas then, who felt fresh, was allowed to drive.

 

[tretiak]

You are completely missing the point here.

Please tell me what i am missing!

 

[DNP-Old]

Please tell me what i am missing!

Just about everything. I am ridiculing Vingegaard's lifelong search for special occasions to dedicate and win races for.

 

[tretiak]

Just about everything. I am ridiculing Vingegaard's lifelong search for special occasions to dedicate and win races for.

verb
Armchair Cycling

The act of watching professional cycling
whilst reclining in a comfortable chair

 

[svit]

Now I don't know if you saw the race yesterday, but as I saw it could not
Primož distanced the others once he tried. Sepp barely hung on and lost a second or so at the finish. So I don't think they had gunpowder in their legs yesterday.

I think that their physical status was reported to the team during the race and that Jonas then, who felt fresh, was allowed to drive.

Primož didn't go all-in and stopped his attack as soon he realized Kuss couldn't keep it with him. In the video, you can clearly see Primoz looking back and checking. He never does this when he launches Roglastomp.

 

[tobydawq]

Some people have just made their minds up to hate Vingegaard, and it doesn't matter what he does they will always find a way to hate on him, it comes with the territory of being the best.

First he could only compete when the race was already over (and lost) and would never be a serious GT contender.

Then he only won because Pogacar had underestimated him.

Then it became about him only performing by wheel sucking and almost never attacking.

Then he was the most boring rider in the world who couldn't win 1 week races.

Then it was because Pogacar's team wasn't good enough and didn't have Van Aert.

Then unsubstantiated "clinic rumours" became the reason.

Then he only won because Pogacar got ill.

Then he was arrogant (or a moron, take your pick) for thinking he could win 2 GT's in a row and the stomach bug "story" was just a smoke screen.

Now we have apparently gotten to him being an disloyal team rider who backstabs his teammates.

It's ridiculous

Lol, who thought it was arrogant to try to win two Grand Tours in a row?

 

[tobydawq]

verb
Armchair Cycling

The act of watching professional cycling
whilst reclining in a comfortable chair

Great argument. You did miss his point, though.

 

[theyoungest]

Primož didn't go all-in and stopped his attack as soon he realized Kuss couldn't keep it with him. In the video, you can clearly see Primoz looking back and checking. He never does this when he launches Roglastomp.

Ayuso and Mas were already on his wheel. If they weren't, I'm pretty sure he'd just have continued.

I think the people who say their favourite rider gets held back by Jumbo need to ask themselves: why? Why would a Dutch team prefer a Dane over a Slovene or an American? If it's about publicity, the American should obviously win.