Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

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Froome

Froome

Jan 29, 2021
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Boehmand said:
I think the main reason Vingegaard fans are relatively chill about it is, that they know he doesn't give a crap about his public image, and criticism on SoMe or in media doesn't phase him at all ;)
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It's a lost war. He will never win this "popularity contest", but for me, it doesn't matter as far he continues to win GTs, specially the Tour and kick everybody a** in the mountains.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

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Samu Cuenca said:
I thought he looked like a tech billionaire who wants to rebuild our society on Neptune, but I guess that could also work as the plot for a Bond movie (could be called something like "The fry who loved me" or "License to krill").
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"We need to go to Mars. Why you ask? Because we need an Olympus Mons MTF. Only then can I finally destroy Teddy Pikachu, muhahahahaha"
 
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E

Elos Anjos

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VayaVayaVaya said:
Two sentences, two logical fallacies. Very nice. Straw man = I said I was a genious (I did not). The second sentence is just labeling a subjective stance objective. If I said the objective criteria was winning the Tour de France by more than 5 minutes over a previous Tour winner, that would be objective. You might disagree with it, but that disagreement, of course, is subjective.
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Not quite.
Objective takes on Velo d'Or are of course based on subjectivites, but that does not mean that everything goes. There are assessments that are more true than others. Appeling to subjectivity is not a valid argument on every opinion having the same content. Otherwise, you would have to bite the bullet and say that, for instance, Pogacar and Tratnik are on the same level.
As for the first, I was just pointing out that agreeing or disagreeing with the masses (whatever that is supposed to mean...) does not qualify any counter-assertion.
 
Froome

Froome

Jan 29, 2021
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Elos Anjos said:
You're not a genious just because you disagree with the masses. Sometimes they really are a depository of common sense. And as far as Velo d'Or is concerned, no way any objective account could provide Vingegaard with the win.
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@VayaVayaVaya can be a genius, but a "genious" certainly he is not.

Pays basque+Dauphine+Tour france+2 stages in the vuelta+second place in the Vuelta + make pogacar saying "i'm dead, i'm gone"+ absolutely destroying pogacar in the TT and at the same time, make the performance of the year, is more than enough to win the velon d'or.
 
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Elos Anjos

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Froome said:
@VayaVayaVaya can be a genius, but a "genious" certainly he is not.

Pays basque+Dauphine+Tour france+2 stages in the vuelta+second place in the Vuelta + make pogacar saying "i'm dead, i'm gone"+ absolutely destroying pogacar in the TT and at the same time, make the performance of the year, is more than enough to win the velon d'or.
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Pogacar lost time in stage 17 to a lot of people. So it's not even close that your fisherman "made" him say that. It would happen either way.

Anyway, fanboy reasoning detected. I won't bother to argue as its pointless. Arguments were already presented by users and the cycling world in general before and after the announcement of ludcriousness result of the 2023 Velo d'Or.
 
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VayaVayaVaya

Jun 1, 2015
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Elos Anjos said:
Not quite.
Objective takes on Velo d'Or are of course based on subjectivites, but that does not mean that everything goes. There are assessments that are more true than others. Appeling to subjectivity is not a valid argument on every opinion having the same content. Otherwise, you would have to bite the bullet and say that, for instance, Pogacar and Tratnik are on the same level.
As for the first, I was just pointing out that agreeing or disagreeing with the masses (whatever that is supposed to mean...) does not qualify any counter-assertion.
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I’m not sure why you think I said that to qualify my assertion. By masses I meant the vocal posters on this forum, Twitter, etc. that seem mostly anti-Vingegaard. The Velo d’Or thread, for example, has what I believe to be a majority - I’ll just call it the vocal majority - of forum posters arguing that Vingegaard winning was a travesty. I disagree and came on the Vingegaard thread to say so. That’s all.

I also think it is silly to say he objectively didn’t deserve it because that implies it is based on a quantitative method. It is, actually - votes.

Signed,

Not a huge Vingegaard fan
 
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kn0s

Jul 25, 2022
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Elos Anjos said:
Pogacar lost time in stage 17 to a lot of people. So it's not even close that your fisherman "made" him say that. It would happen either way.

Anyway, fanboy reasoning detected. I won't bother to argue as its pointless. Arguments were already presented by users and the cycling world in general before and after the announcement of ludcriousness result of the 2023 Velo d'Or.
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Now this is interesting. You are saying that Jonas and Jumbo cannot be credited with the state of Pogacar, at the start of stage 17 and that the result would be the same after a three week battle with Mas and Movistar as an example?
 
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Elos Anjos

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kn0s said:
Now this is interesting. You are saying that Jonas and Jumbo cannot be credited with the state of Pogacar, at the start of stage 17 and that the result would be the same after a three week battle with Mas and Movistar as an example?
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Yes, I'm saying that about that stage and beyond as the main reason for his demise (2nd in the Tour). Before Pogacar cracked, Sean Kelly even predicted that Pogacar would "run out of steam" because his preparation was not optimal due to his wrist injury.

velo.outsideonline.com

Sean Kelly predicts Tadej Pogačar might run out of gas during this Tour de France: 'He might start to suffer'

Former world number 1 and Eurosport commentator predicts disrupted preparation might yet cost Pogačar: 'Vingegaard still has something to give in this race.'
velo.outsideonline.com velo.outsideonline.com
 
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Faserr

Jun 22, 2009
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image.webp


He is giving me Elizabeth Holmes vibes. The women who managed the Theranos fraud and only wore turtleneck in public.
 
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Froome

Froome

Jan 29, 2021
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Elos Anjos said:
Pogacar lost time in stage 17 to a lot of people. So it's not even close that your fisherman "made" him say that. It would happen either way.

Anyway, fanboy reasoning detected. I won't bother to argue as its pointless. Arguments were already presented by users and the cycling world in general before and after the announcement of ludcriousness result of the 2023 Velo d'Or.
Click to expand...
You are really a "genious" and delusional if you think winning pays basque, Dauphine, Tour de france, second in the vuelta with 2 stage wins when he could had won the vuelta if he wanted, is not enough to win the velon d'or. Pogacar was beaten by him in the Tour.

A guy that won so much, and made the performance of the year in that TT, absolutely deserves the velon d'or.

You can talk the sh** you want, like normally you do here, always thinking that you are the genius of this forum, when you in reality are the "genious", but vingegaard won the velon d'or because some of the cycling world in general (international journalists of cycling) voted on him.

The most funny thing is that if Vingegaard had won the Vuelta, this discussion would not definitely exist.

People here forget that the grand tours are the most important races, and the most challenging because you need to be good during 3 weeks.
 
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VayaVayaVaya

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I’m not surprised some think MvDP should have won the award, or even Pogacar. But I’m shocked people think Vingegaard does not deserve it. IMO (cuing a subjective take here), it should have come down to Vingegaard and MVDP.

Vingegaard, as @proffate said above, dominated the biggest race of the year with the biggest ITT performance in at least a decade. He also was second in the Vuelta and was a huge part of everything that played out, somewhat acting as disruptor, media manipulator (outplaying Roglic for sure), and king maker. And he won Paris-Nice and The Dauphine. Did he win or even ride a classic? No. But he won on the biggest stage and had the biggest Oh ***! moment of the year.

MVDP had a comparable season on the classics side, with his Worlds domination equivalent to Vinge’s Tour. Two other monuments but a helper in the Tour. Since the Tour > classics, I think they went for Vinge. He clearly would have deserved the award, too.

I don’t see how Pogi gets it. He was crushed in the Tour, he was crushed in Worlds, he didn’t ride the next tier of biggest races (Giro, Vuelta, I’d even sneak in Paris-Roubaix). He performed near the top in a crazy diversity of races and IMO is the best all-around rider, and my favorite rider among the 3, but his top results just aren’t as good as the other two’s, IMO.

As much as I love Roglic, he needed at least Vuelta or Lombardia, maybe both, to win this.
 
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Zoetemelk-fan

Zoetemelk-fan

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VayaVayaVaya said:
I’m not surprised some think MvDP should have won the award, or even Pogacar. But I’m shocked people think Vingegaard does not deserve it. IMO (cuing a subjective take here), it should have come down to Vingegaard and MVDP.

Vingegaard, as @proffate said above, dominated the biggest race of the year with the biggest ITT performance in at least a decade. He also was second in the Vuelta and was a huge part of everything that played out, somewhat acting as disruptor, media manipulator (outplaying Roglic for sure), and king maker. And he won Paris-Nice and The Dauphine. Did he win or even ride a classic? No. But he won on the biggest stage and had the biggest Oh ***! moment of the year.

MVDP had a comparable season on the classics side, with his Worlds domination equivalent to Vinge’s Tour. Two other monuments but a helper in the Tour. Since the Tour > classics, I think they went for Vinge. He clearly would have deserved the award, too.

I don’t see how Pogi gets it. He was crushed in the Tour, he was crushed in Worlds, he didn’t ride the next tier of biggest races (Giro, Vuelta, I’d even sneak in Paris-Roubaix). He performed near the top in a crazy diversity of races and IMO is the best all-around rider, and my favorite rider among the 3, but his top results just aren’t as good as the other two’s, IMO.

As much as I love Roglic, he needed at least Vuelta or Lombardia, maybe both, to win this.
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My POV : They all deserve this figurehead title.

Cause this is what it is, nothing else.

Doesn't take away my enjoyment from what I'm witnessed throughout the entire 2023 season - been a pleasure!
 
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Boehmand

Boehmand

Mar 5, 2023
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Froome said:
It's a lost war. He will never win this "popularity contest", but for me, it doesn't matter as far he continues to win GTs, specially the Tour and kick everybody a** in the mountains.
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Oh I know.

Also I fully concede Pogacar is a FAR better showman than Vingegaard will ever be. Vingegaard would need to adopt Mads Pedersen's personality to reach that level, and that is not going to happen as he is a shy small town boy from a rural community.

But he is the perfect counter balance as Pogacar's main competitor. They are so diametrically different that they underline each other's personality traits, both on and off the bike.

Now Evenpoel is a different matter - most the time I just find him slightly whiny and annoying - though I respect his skills as a rider greatly ;)
 
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Rob5091

Rob5091

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Vingegaard to Strade bianche next year? As Jumbo have a good classics team, will they push the tempo on the gravel at the Tour?
 
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Blanco

Blanco

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Froome said:
You are really a "genious" and delusional if you think winning pays basque, Dauphine, Tour de france, second in the vuelta with 2 stage wins when he could had won the vuelta if he wanted, is not enough to win the velon d'or. Pogacar was beaten by him in the Tour.

A guy that won so much, and made the performance of the year in that TT, absolutely deserves the velon d'or.

You can talk the sh** you want, like normally you do here, always thinking that you are the genius of this forum, when you in reality are the "genious", but vingegaard won the velon d'or because some of the cycling world in general (international journalists of cycling) voted on him.

The most funny thing is that if Vingegaard had won the Vuelta, this discussion would not definitely exist.

People here forget that the grand tours are the most important races, and the most challenging because you need to be good during 3 weeks.
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The most funny thing is that you keep saying that he could have won the Vuelta if he wanted.
He didn't won it.
And he couldn't had won it.
But he wanted alright.
He finished 2nd this way, and he would've finished 2nd the other way also.
 
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