Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Samu Cuenca]

I never said Pog could easily beat Vingo, but evidently Maxtin realized that the Tadej of the last two years wasn't good enough. And, so, they made him better and this version could be good enough to beat Vingegaard, but after the Giro might not be.

From what we're hearing, it was Pogačar who realised Matxin wasn't the right guy to have around.

 

[Extinction]

From what we're hearing, it was Pogačar who realised Matxin wasn't the right guy to have around.

So Maxtin is no longer involved with him?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

So Maxtin is no longer involved with him?

Javier Sola is apparently in charge of his training now.

 

[Karl Merckx]

Javier Sola is apparently in charge of his training now.

Maxtin is still his DS and not a trainer. San Milan was his former trainer.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Maxtin is still his DS and not a trainer. San Milan was his former trainer.

Yeah, I was getting them mixed up there Still it seems that Pogačar was the guy who called the shots here and not Matxin.

 

[Boehmand]

I never said Pog could easily beat Vingo, but evidently Maxtin realized that the Tadej of the last two years wasn't good enough. And, so, they made him better and this version could be good enough to beat Vingegaard, but after the Giro might not be.

It wasn't directed at you personally, but rather a general comment on some of the Pogacar fans trolling the Vingegaard forum

 

[AmRacer]

Even though I'm a Roglic fan, I sincerely hope Jonas smokes R&R at Itzulia.

 

[303pbmf]

I never said Pog could easily beat Vingo, but evidently Maxtin realized that the Tadej of the last two years wasn't good enough. And, so, they made him better and this version could be good enough to beat Vingegaard, but after the Giro might not be.

Pogacar can easily win the Giro in one stage and then cruise to his victory though. I personally don't think the Giro will be that taxing to him, if he plays his cards right.

 

[Extinction]

Pogacar can easily win the Giro in one stage and then cruise to his victory though. I personally don't think the Giro will be that taxing to him, if he plays his cards right.

But would the Giro be the best preparation for the Tour? Nowadays they go to altitude camp and essentially do a GT, but with much more climbing in a controlled environmnet, to maximize peak building, whilst minimizing the effects of mental stress and physical fatigue. So, in theory, one arrives at the big goal both crazy fit and fresh, with a super peak in the making. Consequently, even if the Giro is "light" and "easy", it paradoxically still might not give Tadej the arms necessary to beat Vingo at the Tour. But only time will tell.

 

[acm]

Even though I'm a Roglic fan, I sincerely hope Jonas smokes R&R at Itzulia.

You're not Rogla fan then.

 

[AmRacer]

You're not Rogla fan then.

I don't expect either R or R be able to follow Jonas and Poggi up the mountains.
So if we should've a good TdF, both Jonas and Teddy have to be in near top shape.
I don't expect both of them to fail.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

But would the Giro be the best preparation for the Tour? Nowadays they go to altitude camp and essentially do a GT, but with much more climbing in a controlled environmnet, to maximize peak building, whilst minimizing the effects of mental stress and physical fatigue. So, in theory, one arrives at the big goal both crazy fit and fresh, with a super peak in the making. Consequently, even if the Giro is "light" and "easy", it paradoxically still might not give Tadej the arms necessary to beat Vingo at the Tour. But only time will tell.

Yup, plus a GT is never a controlled environment efforts-wise, especially for a guy who targets GC win. One can do a few intense efforts too many and instead of gradual buildup it changes into physical fatigue. And there's obviously no way to eliminate mental stress factor, every day one has to be alert and avoid any kind of troubles.

 

[tobydawq]

You said it's now three years in a row, thus including the current year. Name me a single sane person who has said something of the likes because of what is currently happening in Catalunya. I am just dying to know, don't let me down.

Since you took the time to write that epistle, those names should be well within your reach.

Broccolidwarf doesn't like the concept of sources. He will turn your request down with a smiley, though, as if you were a little kid bothering some adults in a conversation.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Are Itzulia hills long enough for Vingo to make a difference to R&R?
Also, there aren't mountain top finishes.
Likely ITT will dictate who will attack first.

 

[kn0s]

Are Itzulia hills long enough for Vingo to make a difference to R&R?
Also, there aren't mountain top finishes.
Likely ITT will dictate who will attack first.

I'll be surprised if he wins it, and a little sad. If they can't compete where R&R should be better, then there is little hope for the TdF.

 

[Offline]

Are Itzulia hills long enough for Vingo to make a difference to R&R?
Also, there aren't mountain top finishes.
Likely ITT will dictate who will attack first.

I think Vingegaard will wins. His most impressive wins this years has been on fake climbs.
The Itzulia route is made for Remco. But Vingegaard is levels over Remco even on a Remco route.
I think we have seen the last to Roglic. I see Ayuso as bigger favorite for 3rd.

 

[Extinction]

Yup, plus a GT is never a controlled environment efforts-wise, especially for a guy who targets GC win. One can do a few intense efforts too many and instead of gradual buildup it changes into physical fatigue. And there's obviously no way to eliminate mental stress factor, every day one has to be alert and avoid any kind of troubles.

And that's why the Giro-Tour double has not been achieved since 98. Winning the Giro is a stress on body and mind, but winning the Tour afterward even moreso. Whereas winning the Tour makes the Vuelta less stressful.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I think Vingegaard will wins. His most impressive wins this years has been on fake climbs.
The Itzulia route is made for Remco. But Vingegaard is levels over Remco even on a Remco route.
I think we have seen the last to Roglic. I see Ayuso as bigger favorite for 3rd.

It would be very strange if Roglic simply declined in the space of a few months. Without any injury a la Froome or Bernal it would be hard to explain the suddenness of a rider that won Il Giro and was 3rd in La Vuelta (whilst being capable of being 2nd or winning it for the 4th time) in 2023 simply fading into the background.

The most plausible explanation for PN is/was: 1) gradual build towards the Tour and 2) shifting environment of Bora.

I don't think leaving JV LAB and AI should factor as the main explanation for Roglic or any rider decline. That should attract major alarms...teams cannot be that different.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Fair enough, but not very good take, IMO.
Your 2nd point is simply laughable. It's a fashionable trend to explain nowadays everything in terms of data.

Even if Pogacar was racing like a madman in 2022 and thought Roglic could be a contender, even if he was injured in his preparation, I think being 2nd for two years in a row didn't humble him but made him much more ambitious.

He is in for the double. He has always been compared to Merckx but for the first time he confesses he wants to be (he already is) legendary, the GOAT.

I posted it in the wrong thread.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I posted it in the wrong thread.

 

[Offline]

It would be very strange if Roglic simply declined in the space of a few months. Without any injury a la Froome or Bernal it would be hard to explain the suddenness of a rider that won Il Giro and was 3rd in La Vuelta (whilst being capable of being 2nd or winning it for the 4th time) in 2023 simply fading into the background.

The most plausible explanation for PN is/was: 1) gradual build towards the Tour and 2) shifting environment of Bora.

I don't think leaving JV LAB and AI should factor as the main explanation for Roglic or any rider decline. That should attract major alarms...teams cannot be that different.

Jorgensen did't need that time. But let me correct myself, I think we have seen the last to Roglic on a level where he can win against Pogacar, Vingegaard, Remco and maybe even Ayuso.

 

[Froome]

The route of dauphine is more suited for vingegaard, that's his playground.

Tour Basque country, is a race of muritos, basically 7/8 min efforts, it suits more Remco and especially Roglic.

 

[Extinction]

I think Vingegaard will wins. His most impressive wins this years has been on fake climbs.
The Itzulia route is made for Remco. But Vingegaard is levels over Remco even on a Remco route.
I think we have seen the last to Roglic. I see Ayuso as bigger favorite for 3rd.

To the bolded, that's the interesting point. For if Vingo can dominate Remco in his terrain, then the Tour becomes a pipe dream. On the other hand, were Remco able to go punch for punch in Itzulia, then the kid can hope.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Even though I'm a Roglic fan, I sincerely hope Jonas smokes R&R at Itzulia.

From your lips to God's ears. Lets see what Jonas has been smoking, should be a good match.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So Jonas can take UCI No.1 spot at Itzulia by finishing on the podium.