Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[acm]

I think I can speak for a lot of us. He is probably having a more relaxed spring and keep his freshness for the Tour-Vuelta. However, no one would expect Vingegaard to be this bad and lose to Almeida for the second time in a hilly/mountain stage. Vingegaard is miles better than everyone except Pogacar that his base level is good enough to win and beat easily his rivals so this is strange IMHO.

What relaxed spring? He started preparing for this season in August last year, when everyone else was still racing. He should be way better...

 

[Offline]

His Danish interview was even worse.

- Jeg synes aldrig, at jeg skulle have været her, siger Vingegaard

4. etape af Paris-Nice var neutraliseret i flere kilometer.

sport.tv2.dk

~~"We as riders should have united and told them that it makes no sense to continue."

Interestingly, he said that the deal was that he was only allowed to attack if he could get away alone. A bit puzzling as Martinez was so far back in GC that he could have been very helpful to have with him.

The race shouldn't have stop at the first place. Nothing crazy about today's weather.
We are in big danger of losing our sport! Cycling is an outdoor sport and if Plugge, Vingegaard and Adam Hansen can handle it I suggest them to leave the sport and start to curling.

 

[Red Rick]

I love trolling Visma or mocking the Skeletor but surely everyone (except for the Roglic cult) by now has realized that this has been completely disproven.
Vingegaard was the one lobbying to keep Kuss in red, Roglic in second and himself "only" in third early on after Remco had cracked. It was the Roglic camp that wanted to keep "racing it out" because they smelled blood that Roglic could leapfrog Kuss and then would be defended by the team to stay in first. Only when this strategy backfired (because unlike Roglic Vingegaard actually has attacking spirit outside the 500m banner) and Vingegaard leapfroged Roglic into second it become a PR drama that Vingegaard was apparently "too greedy". And after it was clear that Roglic couldn't drop Vingegaard on Angliru, Visma intervened - with Vingegaards consent who was in favour of Kuss winning all along - and ordered them to ride for Kuss for the final stages.

Even today, he clearly protected Jorgenson for the first couple of attacks by only following but I guess he got the green light to go himself at some point. Still funny that he got mugged by Almeida in the end, that climb clearly won't become his friend.

It started with Vingegaard going against team orders on Bejes and backstabbing Roglic even before they ever set eyes on Angliru.

 

[ciranda]

His Danish interview was even worse.

- Jeg synes aldrig, at jeg skulle have været her, siger Vingegaard

4. etape af Paris-Nice var neutraliseret i flere kilometer.

sport.tv2.dk

~~"We as riders should have united and told them that it makes no sense to continue."

Interestingly, he said that the deal was that he was only allowed to attack if he could get away alone. A bit puzzling as Martinez was so far back in GC that he could have been very helpful to have with him.

but then at the press conference Sebastien Piquet injected

"The riders' representatives Trentin and Naesen was with the commisaires vehicle and agreed with the jury to continue. That's what happened."

then Vingegaard asked for the microphone and said

"In that case it made sense to continue. When the cyclists representatives and the jury agreed with Gouvenou to got that's the way it is."

(same source as above)

 

[kn0s]

It started with Vingegaard going against team orders on Bejes and backstabbing Roglic even before they ever set eyes on Angliru.

No, please, not, again.....

 

[Froome]

What relaxed spring? He started preparing for this season in August last year, when everyone else was still racing. He should be way better...

He started the preparation of this season las year, but it was to recover the body he had before the crash.

 

[Divergence]

I love trolling Visma or mocking the Skeletor but surely everyone (except for the Roglic cult) by now has realized that this has been completely disproven.
Vingegaard was the one lobbying to keep Kuss in red, Roglic in second and himself "only" in third early on after Remco had cracked. It was the Roglic camp that wanted to keep "racing it out" because they smelled blood that Roglic could leapfrog Kuss and then would be defended by the team to stay in first. Only when this strategy backfired (because unlike Roglic Vingegaard actually has attacking spirit outside the 500m banner) and Vingegaard leapfroged Roglic into second it become a PR drama that Vingegaard was apparently "too greedy". And after it was clear that Roglic couldn't drop Vingegaard on Angliru, Visma intervened - with Vingegaards consent who was in favour of Kuss winning all along - and ordered them to ride for Kuss for the final stages.

Even today, he clearly protected Jorgenson for the first couple of attacks by only following but I guess he got the green light to go himself at some point. Still funny that he got mugged by Almeida in the end, that climb clearly won't become his friend.

You may want to misremember or spin it any way you want but the truth is as follows:
Kuss got the jersey on stage 6.
Rog was best of the GC guys in the TT and got some time back but never attacked.
On stage 13 Jonas attacked his team and leapfrogged Rog who stayed back and did not defend. After this he was pissed obviously and stated that he wants to race for the win (I believe he wanted to race for the win even before this stage but did not want to attack so soon and believed he would slowly regain the time deficit to Kuss and win sort of by default). However, Jonas's attack changed everything in the dynamic of the team and what I found worst was Jonas's interview after the stage where he did not have the balls to say outright he attacked everybody including Kuss and Rog and wants to fight for red but sorta hid behind I did it for my daughter (as if others are childless).
In the end the team intervened and what happened happened.
But Jonas's behavior was despicable and I dislike him even more since then.

 

[Rackham]

It started with Vingegaard going against team orders on Bejes and backstabbing Roglic even before they ever set eyes on Angliru.

Correct. We all saw what happened on the road. The other version was heavily curated by Jumbo afterwards in their documentary. Vinge raced for the win and gap on Bejes. We all saw it.

But the bigger takeaway is always the same, i.e. Vingegaard fans are pretty much some of the only fans in cycling who really do need to believe their man isn't just the strongest GT rider... but also the best man as well. The best teammate. The best husband. The best person.

I mean admit it guys: Vinge raced to win the Vuelta 2023. End of.

 

[Netserk]

Correct. We all saw what happened on the road. The other version was heavily curated by Jumbo afterwards in their documentary. Vinge raced for the win and gap on Bejes. We all saw it.

But the bigger takeaway is always the same, i.e. Vingegaard fans are pretty much some of the only fans in cycling who really do need to believe their man isn't just the strongest GT rider... but also the best man as well. The best teammate. The best husband. The best person.

I mean admit it guys: Vinge raced to win the Vuelta 2023. End of.

He rather raced to beat Rogla than to win.

 

[AmRacer]

He rather raced to beat Rogla than to win.

This I believe.

 

[Rackham]

He rather raced to beat Rogla than to win.

Whatever happened, Bejes was a real turning point. He would have taken red right then if Rog hadn't attacked behind him and pulled others along.

 

[kn0s]

He rather raced to beat Rogla than to win.

Well Roglic was the one who insisted on racing and he got raced. I'll stop now as this is just deja Vu.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Relax guys, Rogla switched teams and hence will still be allowed to beat Jonas and Visma at a GT, it's inevitable.

P.S. As for Sepp i feel that Visma was punishing enough, they ended GC Kuss.

 

[Divergence]

Well Roglic was the one who insisted on racing and he got raced. I'll stop now as this is just deja Vu.

Not before Jonas attacked.
I might add he won the only race during that Vuelta at the Angliru.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Not before Jonas attacked.

Didn't Jonas just want to win a stage for his family?
And family is the most important: that's what I heard in Fast & Furious.

 

[Red Rick]

Didn't Jonas just want to win a stage for his family?
And family is the most important: that's what I heard in Fast & Furious.

I think it was the "I wanted to win for my teammate who almost died" which is quite a bit darker as a reason to start some backstabbing on teammates.

 

[kn0s]

Not before Jonas attacked.
I might add he won the only race during that Vuelta at the Angliru.

What we have been told by people involved:

First rest day meeting. (Before the fateful day)

Jonas you want to race for it?
Jonas: not really, we should ride for Kuss

Roglic do you want to race for it?
Roglic: I want to race, Kuss should earn it on the road.

Roglic later: well I didn't want to race that fast, it hurts me little leggies

 

[CyclistAbi]

At Vuelta 2023 Jonas would be out of contention for the overall after stage 1 if the team would not intervene.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Didn't Jonas just want to win a stage for his family?
And family is the most important: that's what I heard in Fast & Furious.

I assume Vingo Diesel is regularly watching F&F in his spare time. Perhaps that's the real reason he's not in peak shape yet.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Ahh not this *** again.

Opinions about Contador attacking Andy Schleck when his chain dropped?

 

[Gratemans]

I love trolling Visma or mocking the Skeletor but surely everyone (except for the Roglic cult) by now has realized that this has been completely disproven.
Vingegaard was the one lobbying to keep Kuss in red, Roglic in second and himself "only" in third early on after Remco had cracked. It was the Roglic camp that wanted to keep "racing it out" because they smelled blood that Roglic could leapfrog Kuss and then would be defended by the team to stay in first. Only when this strategy backfired (because unlike Roglic Vingegaard actually has attacking spirit outside the 500m banner) and Vingegaard leapfroged Roglic into second it become a PR drama that Vingegaard was apparently "too greedy". And after it was clear that Roglic couldn't drop Vingegaard on Angliru, Visma intervened - with Vingegaards consent who was in favour of Kuss winning all along - and ordered them to ride for Kuss for the final stages.

Even today, he clearly protected Jorgenson for the first couple of attacks by only following but I guess he got the green light to go himself at some point. Still funny that he got mugged by Almeida in the end, that climb clearly won't become his friend.

You're absolutely right. But I think keeping Kuss in red was a bad thing to begin with. All three of them seemed to be in great form, so why didn't they just decide to duke it out on the road?
If the teamspirit over there was as good as they made us believe, surely it could even be fun for all of them? "Let the best man win" would have shown a lot more respect for the sport, the race and other teams.

 

[Red Rick]

Ahh not this *** again.

Opinions about Contador attacking Andy Schleck when his chain dropped?

Fair game. The race was absolutely on and it was a skill issue.

 

[Divergence]

What we have been told by people involved:

First rest day meeting. (Before the fateful day)

Jonas you want to race for it?
Jonas: not really, we should ride for Kuss

Roglic do you want to race for it?
Roglic: I want to race, Kuss should earn it on the road.

Roglic later: well I didn't want to race that fast, it hurts me little leggies

So why did Rog not defend during the Tourmalet stage?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I think they should have let Landa race for himself in the 2015 Giro. There, I‘ve said it.

 

[kn0s]

So why did Rog not defend during the Tourmalet stage?

There was more that 500m to the finish line, what is he going to do?