Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[yaco]

The concussion protocol in cycling will always be an issue (or at least until they introduce a force-measuring mechanism in the helmets). You can‘t do a concussion check without the rider losing time. If you pass concussion protocol but are five minutes down, it‘s just as bad as failing a concussion protocol: Your race is done anyway. In team sports and other spots that are not racing sports, concussion checks are no problem, but in cycling you can‘t just switch your rider back in after he has been examined.

Yes you can. I have already suggested a soolution in stage races. Pre-season all riders do bass line tests to check their cogency. You crash in a stage race with suspected concussion then you travel in the medical car for 15 or 20 minutes and then do the bass line test. Pass the test and you rejoin the race, fail the test and you are out.

 

[AmRacer]

Yes you can. I have already suggested a soolution in stage races. Pre-season all riders do bass line tests to check their cogency. You crash in a stage race with suspected concussion then you travel in the medical car for 15 or 20 minutes and then do the bass line test. Pass the test and you rejoin the race, fail the test and you are out.

You cannot rejoin the race after a 20 minutes paus

 

[Rackham]

Even if you are rubbish at treating people like human beings who need care then to behave like this when it comes to the most valuable asset in your organisation is just incomprehensible.

They wanted to win Paris-Nice. I presume Vingegaard did as well.

That's the thing about a concussion protocol, i.e. the rider and his team will be on the same page when he's fighting for GC, aka get back on the bike as fast as possible.

 

[Berniece]

He will do the Tour and the Vuelta, confirmed.

Might beat Pogacar twice unless Pogi is scared to ride Vuelta after losing TDF

 

[AmRacer]

Might beat Pogacar twice unless Pogi is scared to ride Vuelta after losing TDF

With Remco third at both the Tour and Vuelta

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Might beat Pogacar twice unless Pogi is scared to ride Vuelta after losing TDF

Pogi is on a 5 monument schedule while Vingo is spending the whole spring in his chamber. It doesnt take Einstein to realize the former is more likely to skip Vuelta than the latter (regardless of Tour result).

 

[Berniece]

Pogi is on a 5 monument schedule while Vingo is spending the whole spring in his chamber. It doesnt take Einstein to realize the former is more likely to skip Vuelta than the latter (regardless of Tour result).

Pogi is on a I want to win it all schedule. He can easily ride Vuelta after the TDF. Question is what he finds to be more important, Vuelta win and completing his triple or another WC/Lombardia.

I can imagine that if he loses TDF, he goes for WC/Lombardia because he feels defeated in a GT, while reigning supreme in one day races that are as hard as WC/Lombardia.

 

[AmRacer]

Pogi is on a I want to win it all schedule. He can easily ride Vuelta after the TDF. Question is what he finds to be more important, Vuelta win and completing his triple or another WC/Lombardia

WC/Lombardia seems to be more important this year.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogi is on a I want to win it all schedule. He can easily ride Vuelta after the TDF. Question is what he finds to be more important, Vuelta win and completing his triple or another WC/Lombardia.

I can imagine that if he loses TDF, he goes for WC/Lombardia because he feels defeated in a GT, while reigning supreme in one day races that are as hard as WC/Lombardia.

The fight against Vingo at the Tour will be demanding (win or lose), even Pog has his limits (and he had a spring full of objectives). If he feels tired he will surely rest and focus on WC (which is a big goal as well).

 

[theyoungest]

From the interview it seems like the team didn't even bother to test him for concussion, vingegard blames the race doctor for not checking him at all, but the team also has a responsibility for this. Totally amateur from visma.

Bizarre the way they treated him in a race which wasnt even a big goal for him, they just sent him up the mountain when hes dizzy and can't brake properly

This is cycling, people have been put back on their bikes when they're half dead. You on your couch may think it's irresponsible, but these DSes have seen way worse crashes than this and they assume the race doctor knows what they're doing. If Vingegaard's been told he's OK to race, he's OK to race.

It is however a very serious injury, it's not like a collarbone fracture. Some people never recover from a concussion. For Jip van den Bos it was the end of her career. The update on Vingegaard doesn't exactly inspire confidence that he will be at his best level for the Tour, which is what we need to make it at least somewhat exciting.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This is cycling, people have been put back on their bikes when they're half dead. You on your couch may think it's irresponsible, but these DSes have seen way worse crashes than this and they assume the race doctor knows what they're doing. If Vingegaard's been told he's OK to race, he's OK to race.

It is however a very serious injury, it's not like a collarbone fracture. Some people never recover from a concussion. For Jip van den Bos it was the end of her career. The update on Vingegaard doesn't exactly inspire confidence that he will be at his best level for the Tour, which is what we need to make it at least somewhat exciting.

They already told he is fine. He "just" spent 8-10 days without riding a bike and 4 weeks later (according Visma) he was back to a high intensity training so he will be fine. A concussion is a serious injury but don't forget he finished the stage in PN which shows how resilient he is but also shows his concussion wasn't as bad as Skujins in California (for example). If he is not able to give us a proper fight with Pogacar is due to lack of ceilling. Of course I want Pogacar to win but a fight like 2022 or 2023 (until Col de la Loze) is what we want and not a domination like 2024.

 

[Berniece]

The fight against Vingo at the Tour will be demanding (win or lose), even Pog has his limits (and he had a spring full of objectives). If he feels tired he will surely rest and focus on WC (which is a big goal as well).

If he does the Vuelta, he'll compete with Vinegegaard for the win, but he won't be at his best for WC/Lombardia anymore. Or he skips the Vuelta and he's at his best for WC/Lombardia.

I think he'll probably chose WC if he loses TDF, because he probably thinks he can't win Vuelta with Vingegaard there after losing TDF. So makes more sense to do WC/Lombardia.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think he'll probably chose WC if he loses TDF, because he probably thinks he can't win Vuelta with Vingegaard there after losing TDF. So makes more sense to do WC/Lombardia.

He can do the same after winning the Tour, methinks. His schedule is much heavier than last year regarding GT double.

 

[Berniece]

He can do the same after winning the Tour, methinks. His schedule is much heavier than last year regarding GT double.

If he would do Vuelta + WC + Lombardia this year he would have 66 race days, last year he had 58. I wouldn't call that much heavier. Even more so since last year every race was very important and this year he rode UAE Tour which is negligible.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If he would do Vuelta + WC + Lombardia this year he would have 66 race days, last year he had 58. I wouldn't call that much heavier. Even more so since last year every race was very important and this year he rode UAE Tour which is negligible.

8 race days including heavyweights like Roubaix and Flandres followed by Ardennes triple. If that doesn't make the difference to you this discussion makes no sense anyway. Keep thinking he's just scared of Vingegaard if it makes you feel better.

 

[Berniece]

8 race days including heavyweights like Roubaix and Flandres followed by Ardennes triple. If that doesn't make the difference to you this discussion makes no sense anyway. Keep thinking he's just scared of Vingegaard.

I don't think that has an influence on him. Like I said, I don't think he can do Vuelta AND WC/Lombardia at the highest level, he has to choose. You seem to be implying he can't even ride the Vuelta due to his spring season, which I don't agree with. If he skips Vuelta it's because he lost TDF.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I don't think that has an influence on him. Like I said, I don't think he can do Vuelta AND WC/Lombardia at the highest level, he has to choose. You seem to be implying he can't even ride the Vuelta due to his spring season, which I don't agree with. If he skips Vuelta it's because he lost TDF.

Obviously he can ride the Vuelta but at what cost? If he feels tired after the Tour he won't be at his best and may simply crack at some point during the race. They will assess the risk/gain and decide wheather to focus on WC or do the Vuelta.

 

[Peyroteo94]

8 race days including heavyweights like Roubaix and Flandres followed by Ardennes triple. If that doesn't make the difference to you this discussion makes no sense anyway. Keep thinking he's just scared of Vingegaard if it makes you feel better.

Pogacar doing Tour-Vuelta (after doing this heavy classics campaign) increases Remco's chances of winning WC RR. This is why he wants Pogacar to do the Vuelta. If he doesn't, Remco can only dream about getting silver.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It's hilarious how some people still look to race days specially when comparing PR with flat stages in Pais Vasco (for example).

 

[Berniece]

Obviously he can ride the Vuelta but at what cost? If he feels tired after the Tour he won't be at his best and may simply crack at some point during the race. They will assess the risk/gain and decide wheather to focus on WC or do the Vuelta.

Same could be said about riding the Giro before the Tour and that worked out fine. It's just a decision that needs to be made. Vuelta OR WC, and it's not odd to think they'll go for WC if he loses TDF and know that the rider who beat him there is riding the Vuelta.

Pogacar doing Tour-Vuelta (after doing this heavy classics campaign) increases Remco's chances of winning WC RR. This is why he wants Pogacar to do the Vuelta. If he doesn't, Remco can only dream about getting silver.

Nothing to do with it at all. I think Remco can always defeat Pogacar in a 1-day race. As long as Remco is at his best.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Same could be said about riding the Giro before the Tour and that worked out fine. It's just a decision that needs to be made. Vuelta OR WC, and it's not odd to think they'll go for WC if he loses TDF and know that the rider who beat him there is riding the Vuelta.

I expressed my rational arguments about his schedule this year but to you they don't matter and you prefer to stick to your theory of him being afraid of Vingegaard. So be it. End of discussion.

 

[Berniece]

I expressed my rational arguments about his schedule this year but to you they don't matter and you prefer to stick to your theory of him being afraid of Vingegaard. So be it. End of discussion.

Not my conclusion, but if that's your takeaway, go ahead.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Not my conclusion, but if that's your takeaway, go ahead.

Please, don't deny your own words:

Might beat Pogacar twice unless Pogi is scared to ride Vuelta after losing TDF

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar doesn't have an excuse to not be at his best in WC after doing:
UAE Tour
SB
MSR
RVV
PR
Ardennes
Tour
Vuelta

However Remco does Olympics (2 races and 1 is a TT) after the Tour and this is why he wasn't at his best in both WC RR (after winning the TT) and GdL.
Right...
Coherence at its best!

 

[Berniece]

Please, don't deny your own words:

Yeah, and I'm saying it has nothing to do with a harder schedule like you are implying, but the odds of winning WC are higher if he skips Vuelta after losing TDF. Because for his ego, it's better to win WC/Lombardia then to lose the Vuelta.

However Remco does Olympics (2 races and 1 is a TT) after the Tour and this is why he wasn't at his best in both WC RR (after winning the TT) and GdL.
Right...
Coherence at its best!

He was sick after Olympics...