Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

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I know I wouldn't want anyone in my wheel when training as a pro. It's an (undesired) distraction from training and more importantly, from concentrating on the road and traffic in general.

If I follow someone, I ask. If I get followed, I usually don't care but that's just me. Following wheels of people you don't know, without asking, is just bad practice. I can only roll my eyes at all those people, especially those posting on social media, wheel sucking / filming pro riders on their ride without being invited on the ride.
This is long standing observed behavior, it's never ok to begin close quarters drafting of another rider without mutual coordination. Often pros will do in or out of saddle intervals based on individual, more rare to see a group interval.
On UAE rides for example and a couple of conti teams in Belgium they often use a shooter for logistics.
Carry gels, bottles, flat repair, sometimes wheels, often primary purpose to carry discarded clothing items, riders wear gloves, hats, vests, rain jacket, etc and hand unwanted clothing to scooter. Often scooter will try and make a traffic break to side or rear of pro riders either single file or 2 up, depending on what is going on for the days objective riders will stay on the front and peel after time or effort, team riders are often riding very close together, not uncommon to bump body or arm of teammate. Also a tire touch is something that happens.
Friends, family, fans are seldom included on training rides, certainly by invitation and certainly with behavior defined.
Don't go to the front, don't take pulls, don't get into the rotation, don't talk or touch riders from the team. If you are keeping the wheel of top pros it's because they are allowing you to do it, and if you are keeping the wheel of a TDF winner it's out of general confusion...
Something like what is this guy doing?
If there was a scooter or moto that person typically comes up and says don't join, interrupt pro team formation.. It's just accepted riding etiquette.
The comments by the offending rider are true and correct he just doesn't know what he is doing, appears to have a bad case of self importance.
There are no such things as fake WT pros if you can be a WT pro rider you have a job, you can't fake it. Lots of wannabes that roll with some pros for a few kilometers while they are out just turning it over and it means something to some people, it's insignificant. If you tell someone you were riding pace with Vingegaard, someone at a coffee shop might not know better but anyone who has been around high level conti riders or WT professionals knows that they can destroy you in just a few meters of output.
Cycling News piece on internet giving misleading diet and other nutrition advice to amateur riders , videos titled " what pros eat "" how pros train " majority of the videos are silly and inaccurate.
I think riders like Jonas or Pogacar just assume that if someone is fit, decent bike, decent skills, looks the part that they no better than to get in the mix and possibly crash someone. Just like everything in life common sense is not that common. More teams are going to have a follow vehicle or have scooter or motorcycle to relay warnings to eager riders looking to have fun or make a statement.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lBbqMdoZhKU&pp=ygUbcmlkaW5nIHdpdGggcHJvIGN5Y2xpc3QgTWF4

Here's an example of everyone working off same script and people pros and non pros in control, in the rain, dozens of other videos of people being pests.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vbMix0__13s&pp=ygUZd291dCB2YW4gYWVydCBsb3MgYW5nZWxlcw%3D%3D

Visma mixed message
Peter Sagan rode a bit in S. California over the years and it was just a given that you stay back and observe and don't insert yourself into the story or conversation. Chris Horner used San Diego as training when he was a pro and he was overly familiar with hundreds of people who knew him as a junior and knew him before pro license but still people were respectful. This current situation is just evolution, more handheld recording devices, you can just expect people to make more recording even when it's the wrong time or dangerous.
San Diego zoo has signs all over " don't feed the animals " there are just those people.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nyGCNAhSNJs&pp=ygUfUGV0ZXIgU2FnYW4gc2FuIGRpZWdvIGNsdWIgcmlkZQ%3D%3D

Very disturbing and disappointing that being a pro rider, someone recognized means your personal space is suddenly public domain.
 
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Jul 16, 2015
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And for the sponsors, it would probably be much better if fans - or in some case, probably more like spectatees - does not follow riders, but rather go buy the thing the sponsor is selling.
What do you think gives Bygma - the hardware chain Vingegaard has a personal sponsorship deal with, hence the helmet - the biggest ROI?
People jumping on Vingegaard's wheel?
People turning around, heading straight for the nearest Bygma in order to buy equipment for a building project? (Though, in Spain... it could end up being a pretty long ride...)

In fact, if Vingegaard really wanted to "support" the sponsor, he should be subtly mentioning how he of course buys all his equipment in Bygma whenever he mentions having restored yet another kitchen in one of the houses he owns.
Apparently he just basically owns half of Glyngøre.

It's a public road. That's the basic fact here. And Visma's error in their response is their attempt to make this a wider issue when it cannot ever be one by virtue of the fact... the roads are public and fans have as much right to ride there as the pros do.

It really doesn't matter what Visma want, Vingegaard wants or what the sponsors want. When they train on public roads... there's people there. And yes they can get close or annoying. In most cases the riders just politely ask them to leave them alone if that's the case. It's a a social etiquette thing and something that cannot ever be regulated because any law to protect pro-cyclists whilst riding on public roads from 'fan interference' would be comically impossible to regulate (& a bad look because once again "something millionaires throwing another tantrum over trivial irritations").
 
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It's a public road. That's the basic fact here. And Visma's error in their response is their attempt to make this a wider issue when it cannot ever be one by virtue of the fact... the roads are public and fans have as much right to ride there as the pros do.
sidewalks are public. i have as much right to walk on it as anyone else

will you defend my right to walk up right behind anyone famous i spot on a sidewalk, following them along so close i can hear them breathe
 
Jun 30, 2022
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sidewalks are public. i have as much right to walk on it as anyone else

will you defend my right to walk up right behind anyone famous i spot on a sidewalk, following them along so close i can hear them breathe
If you‘re following Eliud Kipchoge or something while on your run, I think it would be better than following some random celebrity who isn‘t famous for running.
 
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sidewalks are public. i have as much right to walk on it as anyone else

will you defend my right to walk up right behind anyone famous i spot on a sidewalk, following them along so close i can hear them breathe
Not at all. I'd question your sense of proximate security if that famous person is bigger than you and their posture suggests they don't appreciate your skeezy fixation. Do you know many people that wouldn't feel uncomfortable?
It's certain common sense that seems absent. That, and the narcissism that completely engulfs social media.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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It's a public road. That's the basic fact here. And Visma's error in their response is their attempt to make this a wider issue when it cannot ever be one by virtue of the fact... the roads are public and fans have as much right to ride there as the pros do.

It really doesn't matter what Visma want, Vingegaard wants or what the sponsors want. When they train on public roads... there's people there. And yes they can get close or annoying. In most cases the riders just politely ask them to leave them alone if that's the case. It's a a social etiquette thing and something that cannot ever be regulated because any law to protect pro-cyclists whilst riding on public roads from 'fan interference' would be comically impossible to regulate (& a bad look because once again "something millionaires throwing another tantrum over trivial irritations").
The contractual insistence that they wear team colors when they ride, for promotional purposes; doesn't help. That, and legit racers that post their Strava routes and training itinerary on their SM accounts.
 
Jul 16, 2015
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sidewalks are public. i have as much right to walk on it as anyone else

will you defend my right to walk up right behind anyone famous i spot on a sidewalk, following them along so close i can hear them breathe

I already said it's a social etiquette issue. But it cuts both ways as well, i.e. riders probably shouldn't get angry with fans either. But they do.

Riding is also different. It's far less personal than walking, always was, i.e. it's 'less' about personal space and more about safety, so I don't believe that comparison stands.

I simply find the moral indignities expressed by the 'anti-fan' contingent online right now after the Vingegaard incident a bit funny. It can't be regulated & no one can be stopped from following a rider on the road unless you want to call it stalking (which would be absurd in this context because amateurs often test themselves behind pros, i.e. sometimes with hilarious results like hardcore amateur male riders getting demolished by female pros on climbs).

And monuments like Liège would lose a lot of their 'public warmth' if fans were barred from riding la redoute against the pros on the Saturday before the race, for example - which is where the "argh curse those amateurs riding with the pros arghh!" indignant reactions would naturally lead if they were to metastasize into laws.
 
Apr 30, 2011
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I already said it's a social etiquette issue. But it cuts both ways as well, i.e. riders probably shouldn't get angry with fans either. But they do.

Riding is also different. It's far less personal than walking, always was, i.e. it's 'less' about personal space and more about safety, so I don't believe that comparison stands.

I simply find the moral indignities expressed by the 'anti-fan' contingent online right now after the Vingegaard incident a bit funny. It can't be regulated & no one can be stopped from following a rider on the road unless you want to call it stalking (which would be absurd in this context because amateurs often test themselves behind pros, i.e. sometimes with hilarious results like hardcore amateur male riders getting demolished by female pros on climbs).

And monuments like Liège would lose a lot of their 'public warmth' if fans were barred from riding la redoute against the pros on the Saturday before the race, for example - which is where the "argh curse those amateurs riding with the pros arghh!" indignant reactions would naturally lead if they were to metastasize into laws.
i have read zero people suggest that it should be outlawed, only ever criticism re the etiquette of the strava rider

etiquette and social norms are policed by outrage, by telling people when they misbehave. that is what ive seen, people trying to police the etiquette of the behaviour in question

if you agree both re norms and law, what relevance then does it have that people have the right to ride on public roads--no one disagrees, yet how they conduct themselves is still up for criticism
 
Jul 16, 2015
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i have read zero people suggest that it should be outlawed, only ever criticism re the etiquette of the strava rider

etiquette and social norms are policed by outrage, by telling people when they misbehave. that is what ive seen, people trying to police the etiquette of the behaviour in question

if you agree both re norms and law, what relevance then does it have that people have the right to ride on public roads--no one disagrees, yet how they conduct themselves is still up for criticism

I fundamentally disagree on a human level with a multi-millionaire sports outfit kicking up a fuss about a lone amateur fan and his behavior - which was contradicted by the man himself - whilst Internet moral crusaders pick up their pitchforks and attempts to fight the "etiquette fight" on behalf of these rich and highly privileged sports stars.

No, no and no again. If we're talking etiquette here, then context is king. Vingegaard and Visma are extremely privileged.
 
Apr 30, 2011
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I fundamentally disagree on a human level with a multi-millionaire sports outfit kicking up a fuss about a lone amateur fan and his behavior
afaik, they only ever wrote :
Jonas Vingegaard crashed during training on Monday. Fortunately, he is okay and did not sustain any serious injuries.

In general, as a team we would like to urge fans on bikes to always put safety first. For both your own and others’ wellbeing, please allow riders to train and give them as much space and peace as possible.
nothing about the lone amateur
 
Jul 16, 2015
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i also dont find it mitigating when losers antisocial behaviour targets succesful people

Well, I have a different take. I believe professional sports teams and the actors of sport need to be much more careful when taking to social media to project their own errors onto civvies (because at the end of the day Visma's rider crashed himself, not the fan).

It's ugly when people start hurling abuse at this random Spanish amateur rider based off Visma's social media post. It doesn't matter how they worded it (carefully, as always) because the message was clear: blame the other guy, i.e. a man who just happens to have a mere fraction of their wealth, influence and support.
 
Apr 30, 2011
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Well, I have a different take. I believe professional sports teams and the actors of sport need to be much more careful when taking to social media to project their own errors onto civvies (because at the end of the day Visma's rider crashed himself, not the fan).

It's ugly when people start hurling abuse at this random Spanish amateur rider based off Visma's social media post. It doesn't matter how they worded it (carefully, as always) because the message was clear: blame the other guy, i.e. a man who just happens to have a mere fraction of their wealth, influence and support.
they dont blame anyone else, they dont mention anyone else

the only person bringing the spot on him is himself with his strava post
 
Jul 16, 2015
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they dont blame anyone else, they dont mention anyone else

I disagree.

Jonas Vingegaard crashed during training on Monday. Fortunately, he is okay and did not sustain any serious injuries.In general, as a team we would like to urge fans on bikes to always put safety first. For both your own and others’ wellbeing, please allow riders to train and give them as much space and peace as possible.

Visma's post on X might have been written by a wouldbe law student but the implication is absolutely clear and leaves no room for interpretation. The 'fan' is blamed.

And based on what we know, the amateur cyclist was riding behind Vinge on the descent. It would be pretty ironic for a rider who became king of the "superglued wheel" memes during the Tour a few years ago (because he literally glued himself to Pog's wheel - including on descents) to blame some guy riding somewhere further back and not even directly on him. So all the headlines (I'm looking at outlets like L'Equipe who plastered the title "impeded by an amateur cyclist, Vingegaard crashes in training") that immediately shifted the blame onto the guy based off Visma's social media account just ran with a version which dumped all over a random nobody to spare the blushes of their star rider.

I don't like that at all.
 
Jul 16, 2015
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which sentence mentions him

"Vingegaard crashed in training, here's why fans are a problem".

?

Not directly mentioning the guy's name has no bearing on Visma blaming the 'fan'. Which they did by invoking broad sympathies from the cycling followers and community regarding 'safety' because of evil bad fans doing naughty things.

And the Internet being what the Internet is, when one rich influential person or team makes a moral case, kaboom, white knights jump to their rescue. Such is e-life.
 
Apr 30, 2011
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without the strava post the day before, would the exact same post by visma still have mentioned him
 
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without the strava post the day before, would the exact same post by visma still have mentioned him

Do you think they would have mentioned anything about fan behaviour if that post hadn't been made beforehand?

If they had no issue with the guy they should have clearly said so in their response. By not doing that, they are definitely indicating that he did in fact not put safety first.
 
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Tagging on the back of pros when they're doing any kind of efforts or interval blocks is an absolute no-no..

If they're just rolling easy/ doing Z2 it's a bit different but if you're gonna sit on for more than a couple minutes it's probably best to ask if they're alright with you tagging on the back for a while.

Anyone who actually trains knows how irritating it can be when you're pushing hard. Even if you're not pushing, for someone like Jonas who is a bit on the spectrum/hypersensitive it's gonna be really annoying if someone you don't know won't get off your wheel.

If the guy cannnot read Jonas body language to see that he's not wanted there then he's clearly lacking a bit of social intelligence.
 
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