Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Oldermanish]

He rode his best numbers during the TDF

numbers, numbers, nummmmmmb. Fixate on winning whether the victor rode as slowly as they ever have or faster. It's racing, not Zwift.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglic.

He did.

So he improved YoY…

IMHO not really. My comment went more in the direction that relatively speaking it would be hard to suggest Jonas was an improved version of Jonas from the past. In my opinion he wasn't, mainly due to getting injured prior to the Tour. Visma suggesting he was best Jonas ever, BS. Pogi already dominated a Tour edition or two in the past, so lack of any injuries and hard dedication and motivation enabled him to peak, again. Last year he got injured and hence couldn't peak.

 

[Berniece]

Visma suggesting he was best Jonas ever, BS.

Well if you don't believe them, then obviously you don't see a YoY improvement. I do believe them.

 

[velaso montador]

Well if you don't believe them, then obviously you don't see a YoY improvement. I do believe them.

obv its correct numbers nevr lie. Its just people telling themself what they wanne know he never was better but its still not even remotely close enough and also Evenepoel is lurking and will soon surpass him aswell.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Well if you don't believe them, then obviously you don't see a YoY improvement. I do believe them.

I don't believe them, claiming that this was the best version of Jonas, compared to all Tour editions he did. It's simply not possible, due to the extent of injuries he obtained.

 

[AmRacer]

I don't believe them, claiming that this was the best version of Jonas, compared to all Tour editions he did. It's simply not possible, due to the extent of injuries he obtained.

Or the reason could be discussed in another forum.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don't believe them, claiming that this was the best version of Jonas, compared to all Tour editions he did. It's simply not possible, due to the extent of injuries he obtained.

It was the best Vingegaard ever however I think Vingegaard would be better without any injuries.

 

[Berniece]

I don't believe them, claiming that this was the best version of Jonas, compared to all Tour editions he did. It's simply not possible, due to the extent of injuries he obtained.

Or he actually got better

 

[CyclistAbi]

All of you claiming on how this was the best version of Jonas ever, you somehow got a rather short memory. It doesn't even come close. The only thing i was impressed about is when he decided to close the gap in between Rogla and Pogi. Still, he paid for that effort later on.

So no, this was not the best version of Jonas. This was more of an impressive comeback from the injures, at best. More than most expected, peak Jonas? Get real.

 

[Froome]

It wasn't the best Vingegaard ever.

Do you saw his body? He was super light, he couldn't achieve best weight because he also lost a lot of mass muscle. How can you be in the best shape ever in a situation like that?

He had a lot of trouble in the descends and flats sections, because of that. He also lost a lot of explosion.

He just did in one moment a super watts perfomance, on plateau de beille, but it doesn’t mean he achieved the best shape he could achieve.

In terms of average watts in all climbs, he wasn't better than in the previous year.

When you see everybody getting better due to clinical issues, a guy like Landa improving 5% comparing with the previous year, we can easily make the conclusion, Vingegaard couldn't achieve a better shape due the injuries he had.

Plateau de beille doesn't mean he was in the best shape he could be.

He still did a miracle because of the talent, persistence and clinical things.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

The gap between Pogacar and Vingegaard will be much smaller next year. Take it to the bank. The Tour will be 💥. Roglic and Remco will fight it out for third.

 

[Gratemans]

The gap between Pogacar and Vingegaard will be much smaller next year. Take it to the bank. The Tour will be 💥. Roglic and Remco will fight it out for third.

I think you're right. Let's just hope they can all start free of injuries.

 

[RedheadDane]

I think you're right. Let's just hope they can all start free of injuries.

And finish.

 

[vwpe]

It wasn't the best Vingegaard ever.

Do you saw his body? He was super light, he couldn't achieve best weight because he also lost a lot of mass muscle. How can you be in the best shape ever in a situation like that?

He had a lot of trouble in the descends and flats sections, because of that. He also lost a lot of explosion.

He just did in one moment a super watts perfomance, on plateau de beille, but it doesn’t mean he achieved the best shape he could achieve.

In terms of average watts in all climbs, he wasn't better than in the previous year.

When you see everybody getting better due to clinical issues, a guy like Landa improving 5% comparing with the previous year, we can easily make the conclusion, Vingegaard couldn't achieve a better shape due the injuries he had.

Plateau de beille doesn't mean he was in the best shape he could be.

He still did a miracle because of the talent, persistence and clinical things.

Wrong. Numbers, Vingegaard and his teams all say he never been better, its not harder than that really its really easy, he just got smacked by a much better rider.

 

[RedheadDane]

I suppose it could very well have been the best Vingegaard we have ever seen.
That doesn't mean it's the best Vingegaard we will ever see, and that he couldn't have been better if not for his somewhat less-than-ideal preparation.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I suppose it could very well have been the best Vingegaard we have ever seen.
That doesn't mean it's the best Vingegaard we will ever see, and that he couldn't have been better if not for his somewhat less-than-ideal preparation.

Spot on.

 

[theyoungest]

Wrong. Numbers, Vingegaard and his teams all say he never been better, its not harder than that really its really easy, he just got smacked by a much better rider.

Yes, he did say that. His team did as well. But there was also a factor of keeping up morale, "I'm better than ever so I still have a chance". Maybe on a few climbs he actually did post better numbers than ever. But over the whole Tour a blind man could see that he was not at his best. At no point did he have an extraordinary performance like on the time trial last year or on Granon.

And you couldn't expect that with the preparation he had. If Pogi's crash in Liege was an excuse, surely Vingo's much heavier crash in Pais Vasco should be... shouldn't it? I'm not saying that the Vingegaard of last year could have beaten this year's Pogacar, because Pogi was definitely better than ever. But at least he would have been closer.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yes, he did say that. His team did as well. But there was also a factor of keeping up morale, "I'm better than ever so I still have a chance". Maybe on a few climbs he actually did post better numbers than ever. But over the whole Tour a blind man could see that he was not at his best. At no point did he have an extraordinary performance like on the time trial last year or on Granon.

And you couldn't expect that with the preparation he had. If Pogi's crash in Liege was an excuse, surely Vingo's much heavier crash in Pais Vasco should be... shouldn't it? I'm not saying that the Vingegaard of last year could have beaten this year's Pogacar, because Pogi was definitely better than ever. But at least he would have been closer.

Stage 15 was Vingegaard’s extraordinary performance, there was just someone better. Without Pogacar, Vingegaard wins overall with ease and 4-5 stages.

 

[vwpe]

And you couldn't expect that with the preparation he had. If Pogi's crash in Liege was an excuse, surely Vingo's much heavier crash in Pais Vasco should be... shouldn't it? I'm not saying that the Vingegaard of last year could have beaten this year's Pogacar, because Pogi was definitely better than ever.

I love Vingegaard I do but he has never showned he is able to match peak pogacar not even before this year which he has gotten extremely much better like you say, but indeed a little bit closer maybe for the fun of it indeed, but also dont forget Pog did the Giro.

He has 2 GT to his name thats it and both somewhat asterisk to both it is what is.

While your theory is likable the numbers are not backing it - he has never produced better numbers forget the TT, he outdid that this year on stage 15 there isnt anything to discuss on every metric and still Pogacar is on a training ride on his wheel not even effected,smiling and riding without no hands, its just mental how much stronger he really is if were beeing real.

There just is a super alien out there nothing else, Vingegaard is still a brilliant rider ofc goes without saying.

 

[RedheadDane]

While your theory is likable the numbers are not backing it - he has never produced better numbers forget the TT, he outdid that this year on stage 15 there isnt anything to discuss on every metric and still Pogacar is on a training ride on his wheel not even effected,smiling and riding without no hands, its just mental how much stronger he really is if were beeing real.

We don't know what the numbers could have been without the crash.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

We don't know what the numbers could have been without the crash.

It's alright. He loves Jonas.

 

[YavorD]

Stage 15 was Vingegaard’s extraordinary performance, there was just someone better. Without Pogacar, Vingegaard wins overall with ease and 4-5 stages.

Agreed. Without Pogacar we would be talking about Vingegaard destroying Pantani's record* and how astonishing his numbers were.


*Well without Pogacar we probably wouldn't have been close to that because Visma wouldn't drill it from the bottom of the climb

 

[theyoungest]

I love Vingegaard I do but he has never showned he is able to match peak pogacar not even before this year which he has gotten extremely much better like you say, but indeed a little bit closer maybe for the fun of it indeed, but also dont forget Pog did the Giro.

He has 2 GT to his name thats it and both somewhat asterisk to both it is what is.

While your theory is likable the numbers are not backing it - he has never produced better numbers forget the TT, he outdid that this year on stage 15 there isnt anything to discuss on every metric and still Pogacar is on a training ride on his wheel not even effected,smiling and riding without no hands, its just mental how much stronger he really is if were beeing real.

There just is a super alien out there nothing else, Vingegaard is still a brilliant rider ofc goes without saying.

Basically your argument is: if Vingegaard (or anyone really) beats Pogacar, it's just a regular performance. If it's the other way around, it's superhuman.

Imagine Pogi spending two weeks in the hospital, and having just 6 weeks to properly prepare for the Tour, starting from basically zero. You think he reaches the level he had this year? Of course not. Why is it that for Vingegaard apparently this doesn't count?

 

[Cookster15]

Basically your argument is: if Vingegaard (or anyone really) beats Pogacar, it's just a regular performance. If it's the other way around, it's superhuman.

Imagine Pogi spending two weeks in the hospital, and having just 6 weeks to properly prepare for the Tour, starting from basically zero. You think he reaches the level he had this year? Of course not. Why is it that for Vingegaard apparently this doesn't count?

tbf it was Visma and Vingegaard who claimed he was at a top level despite his huge crash and the numbers he did in the tour suggest he was better than 2022 and 2023.

For example while dropping over a minute on PdB Vingegaard was still two minutes faster than the previous climb record set by Pantani in 1998.

Peak Vingegaard won’t beat peak Pogacar. The 2024 Tour erased a number of myths. Another one was that Vingegaard is better on long, hot and hard stages.

 

[Froome]

Peak Vingegaard won’t beat peak Pogacar. The 2024 Tour erased a number of myths. Another one was that Vingegaard is better on long, hot and hard stages.

Why do you think that? Did Pogacar ever beat Vingegaard without injuries in the Tour? Because the opposite already happened.

Don’t look at the best w/kg ever, just because of one day on Plateau de beille.

Everybody was doing the best w/kg ever. Landa and Remco were doing 6.4 w/kg on Plateau beille, better than Vingegaard on Hautacam in 2022.

That's how w/kg are evolving for every rider, so it means Vingegaard couldn't improve at the least, the same % the others riders improved.

Besides that, he was second at only 6 minutes after racing with less muscle mass than his normal. The body wasn't at 100%. Probably he was less than 58 kg.


Pogacar finished far from Vingegaard in 2023, with a injury who wasn't so severe.


Let's imagine Pogacar with pneumotorax, collarbone, broken ribs, 2 weeks in the hospital in April, and in July he will finish at 15 min of Vingegaard.