Armchair Cyclist
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Oops: hope what I had meant was clear though.I'm very glad Pogacar fans thinks there was very little wrong with Vingegaard fans (earlier) this year!
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Oops: hope what I had meant was clear though.I'm very glad Pogacar fans thinks there was very little wrong with Vingegaard fans (earlier) this year!
OK: we get it. Pogacar fans believe that there was very little wrong with Vingegaard in 2024; Vingegaard fans think there was not much wrong with Pogacar in 2023.
Anyone got anything different/new/interesting to say?
Fisherman!
Fish aren‘t the only things he can cut up.Why does he look so threatening?
I'm scared...
They’re both wrong?OK: we get it. Pogacar fans believe that there was very little wrong with Vingegaard in 2024; Vingegaard fans think there was not much wrong with Pogacar in 2023.
Anyone got anything different/new/interesting to say?
Vingegaard’s injuries were almost certainly worse and more disruptive; Pogacar had more time to recover.
Yeah. Anyone suggesting this year's Vingo wouldn't have been better without the injury is nuts. I make it a toss up next year assuming both fully fit.They’re both wrong?
I don’t understand how it’s a debate, honestly:
- Pogacar paid for his wrist fracture in the 2023 Tour; Vingegaard paid for his multiple injuries in the 2024 Tour.
- Vingegaard’s injuries were almost certainly worse and more disruptive; Pogacar had more time to recover.
- Vingegaard put him record domination in the 2023 Tour ITT (remember the greatest Tour ITT in 70 years???); Pogacar smashed climbing records in 2024.
- Everyone, young and old, is setting climbing records.
- Nothing is certain for 2025. Giddyup.
Probably the same. Tour started earlier this year and Pog was on the bike trainer right away while Vinge was in hospital for 10 days.Other way around.
Vingegaard's injury happened during Basque (on 4/4)
Pogacar's injury happened during LBL (on 23/4)
Pogacar had less time to recover but his base level didn't decrease a lot. The problem for Pogacar was the lack of time to train properly at altitude.They’re both wrong?
I don’t understand how it’s a debate, honestly:
- Pogacar paid for his wrist fracture in the 2023 Tour; Vingegaard paid for his multiple injuries in the 2024 Tour.
- Vingegaard’s injuries were almost certainly worse and more disruptive; Pogacar had more time to recover.
- Vingegaard put him record domination in the 2023 Tour ITT (remember the greatest Tour ITT in 70 years???); Pogacar smashed climbing records in 2024.
- Everyone, young and old, is setting climbing records.
- Nothing is certain for 2025. Giddyup.
If there's one thing Visma do not do, it's underestimate Pogacar. They built their entire tactic and preparation for the 2022 and 2023 Tours around beating that one guy. Of course they weren't confident they were going to beat him this year, they never said so. They just believed there was a possibility, which you have to do. And given what they knew from previous years, they thought it would come later on in the Tour, when Vingegaard normally gets better (relatively speaking) and Pogi gets worse.This. I don't buy excuses about Vingegaard's April crash. His injuries were very severe but he and Visma were confident they were going to beat Pogacar right up until Plateau de Beille. They underestimated Pog fair and square.
Spot on. In fact, Visma only cares about Pogacar, they know Vingegaard is miles ahead every other GT rider. And for that reason, Vingegaard didn't cooperate with Pogacar after San Luca (stage 2) and in stage 9 (gravel stage). It is all about Pogacar.If there's one thing Visma do not do, it's underestimate Pogacar. They built their entire tactic and preparation for the 2022 and 2023 Tours around beating that one guy. Of course they weren't confident they were going to beat him this year, they never said so. They just believed there was a possibility, which you have to do. And given what they knew from previous years, they thought it would come later on in the Tour, when Vingegaard normally gets better (relatively speaking) and Pogi gets worse.
Neither of those things happened, in fact quite the opposite. But for Vingegaard that clearly was a result of his hampered preparation. I think it's pretty obvious he wasn't at his very best, far from it. He couldn't even follow Pogi and Evenepoel in medium mountain stages at some point. Even if you think Pogi is by far the best cyclist in the world (he clearly is) a fully fit Vingegaard can at least get a little closer.
Shoot that’s what I meant to write. Thanks.Other way around.
Vingegaard's injury happened during Basque (on 4/4)
Pogacar's injury happened during LBL (on 23/4)
I think Visma were talking themselves into it - I suppose you have to be positive. I took that as arrogance but it was actually normal psychology. But privately at least Visma had to doubt he would get better later in the Tour because of his crash - in this forum we speculated he may weaken and this turned out to be more or less correct.They just believed there was a possibility, which you have to do. And given what they knew from previous years, they thought it would come later on in the Tour, when Vingegaard normally gets better (relatively speaking) and Pogi gets worse.
If there was a GC stage after stage 15 instead of a rest day and flat stage, Vingegaard could have cracked as well. Vingegaard had time to come to terms mentally that he wasn’t going to win before the next GC day vs Pogacar last year.I think Visma were talking themselves into it - I suppose you have to be positive. I took that as arrogance but it was actually normal psychology. But privately at least Visma had to doubt he would get better later in the Tour because of his crash - in this forum we speculated he may weaken and this turned out to be more or less correct.
"Normally gets better" wasn't going to hold with the interruption to his prep caused by the April crash. After stage 19, Vingegaard himself said that on PdB (stage 15) Pogacar was just too strong. But after Cime de la Bonette he admitted he "wasn't as good".
I gain a lot of respect for riders who are able to respond, fight and suffer under adversity. Vingegaard was quite amazing in hindsight, he never collapsed like Pog last year and still rode a super strong final TT.
Patrick Broe, who I think at the time was on Visma staff, predicted Vingo was going to win the tour after the Emelia-esque stage. Not hope he would win the tour, predicted he would win the tour. Visma thought Vingo was stronger and would win. Of course the team doesn't issue statements like this, but they believed he would win the tour from a mathematical standpoint, as that is how they prepare for and race.I think Visma were talking themselves into it - I suppose you have to be positive. I took that as arrogance but it was actually normal psychology. But privately at least Visma had to doubt he would get better later in the Tour because of his crash - in this forum we speculated he may weaken and this turned out to be more or less correct.
"Normally gets better" wasn't going to hold with the interruption to his prep caused by the April crash. After stage 19, Vingegaard himself said that on PdB (stage 15) Pogacar was just too strong. But after Cime de la Bonette he admitted he "wasn't as good".
I gain a lot of respect for riders who are able to respond, fight and suffer under adversity. Vingegaard was quite amazing in hindsight, he never collapsed like Pog last year and still rode a super strong final TT.
Visibly dedicated support lobsters.
Patrick Broe, who I think at the time was on Visma staff, predicted Vingo was going to win the tour after the Emelia-esque stage. Not hope he would win the tour, predicted he would win the tour. Visma thought Vingo was stronger and would win. Of course the team doesn't issue statements like this, but they believed he would win the tour from a mathematical standpoint, as that is how they prepare for and race.
Absolutely. I was always confused by those who saw arrogance in the pre-Tour statements about JV's condition. I mean, what else were they going to say? That he's lucky to be walking and will try to finish a stage or two?I think Visma were talking themselves into it - I suppose you have to be positive. I took that as arrogance but it was actually normal psychology. But privately at least Visma had to doubt he would get better later in the Tour because of his crash - in this forum we speculated he may weaken and this turned out to be more or less correct.
"Normally gets better" wasn't going to hold with the interruption to his prep caused by the April crash. After stage 19, Vingegaard himself said that on PdB (stage 15) Pogacar was just too strong. But after Cime de la Bonette he admitted he "wasn't as good".
I gain a lot of respect for riders who are able to respond, fight and suffer under adversity. Vingegaard was quite amazing in hindsight, he never collapsed like Pog last year and still rode a super strong final TT.